How do you define an "American" vehicle??

[TrepMan]

OK Teri's comments about her new Rover got me thinking... and try to keep this non-political if you can.



It used to be easy 20+ years ago - Ford, GM, Chrysler, AMC... were "American" companies that build the cars we buy in the US from them in the US and the profits went to the US company.



Now we have the last US companies - Ford/GM - Making vehicles we buy in the US elsewhere, we have Chrysler owned by Benz so all the profit goes to a German company (I think), we have the Japaneze/Korean builders building in the US, the 2 US companies building in Mexico, Canada and so on that we buy here. Then you have the question if GM builds a car in Europe to sell to Europe with Europe laboer is that different then Toyota building a Camary in the US selling to US with US labor?



I know this will probably generate a political rant from some folks, so if Rich needs to delete this if we can't discuss civilly, then so be it...



'cause then I think about due to the double tax a US based corporation has to pay for profits overseas, there are less and less incentives for a US based company that does business outside of the US also to stay in the US.



OK, so all of that said, how do YOU define an "American" vehicle??

 

[TOMMY RICH]

No such thing:angry:

 

[TrepMan]

That may be a good point Tee... Is it now defined in vehicles as "global" companies with HQ in the US vs. "global" companies with HQ outside the US and all sell vehicles in the US.



Is it defined by % content of parts? labor? What about where the profit goes? What if Ford were to keep EVERYTHING as it used to be in the 50's (US labor perspective and build/manufacturing) but moved its HQ to say Bermuda to save billions in US taxes, but raised salaries, stock went up, re-implemented full pensions... But that would be a broader discussion on the IRS/Taxes in the US which would get us sided on Rep vs. Dems vs. Libertarian vs. Independants...



Ok back to US or no vehicle?

 

[Tim Shirley]

To me, the company that makes the vehicle really doesn't matter, what matters is whether they put Americans to work. So if you buy a vehicle that is made overseas by Ford, that didn't keep any of our citizens working. Whereas my Nissan Titan was made in Mississippi and they have thousands of Americans working in their plant.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Bottom line is...It's SAD!

 

[Jim in VA]

Okay, I'll bite, although I got in a bit of "trouble" the last time I replied to something like this. I agree with Tee and Pat Goff. There is no longer any such thing as an "American" vehicle or a "foreign" vehicle. Parts, components and vehicles themselves are built all over. Car manufacturers are truly global. To say otherwise ignores the fact that GM and Ford build cars and trucks in China, Europe, Mexico and Canada. It also ignores the reality of foreign-based manufacturers such as Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Hyundai and Daimler Chrysler building cars and trucks in the contiguous United States (e.g., Tennessee, Mississippi, Alabama, West Virginia, Michigan, Kentucky, Ohio, etc).



As far as where the money goes, I agree you have to look at the corporation it goes to, but you have to look where the corporation then re-invests that money. A few folks will say they won't buy "foreign" brands, because the money all goes to the foreign corporate headquarters. I agree the money from the sales of "foreign" brand vehicles goes to Japan, Korea, and Germany. However, look past that to where the money goes from there. Much of that is refunneled back to the largest car market in the world - us. Only two (or was it three?) years ago, Nissan invested over $3 billion U.S. to build the Canton, Mississippi plant and several hundred million to expand the existing Tennesse plant. While at the Detroit Auto show this year, I learned that this same "foreign" company builds 89% of the cars and trucks sold in the United States in North America. Just this morning, Automotive News reported that Toyota plans to build another vehicle assembly plant in North America and has expanded significantly plants in Texas, Kentucky, Indiana, Alabama, West Virginia, Tennessee and Michigan. All these facilities are employing American workers and funneling money back to the U.S. economy.



So before I go on too long, I'll just say that there is no such thing as an "American" car or truck anymore. Buy what you want and what you'll enjoy, because that's also the American way!



JC (proud co-owner of both GM and Nissan products).

 

[TOMMY RICH]

My bro-in-law works at Honda in Marysville....where do people get that they're "American made"? NOT!

 

[Bryan McDonough]

People still holding on to the way it used to be. I also am in agreement with most of you. I also don't believe the quality issues everyone claims between the "Foreign" and "Domestic" manufacturers still exists. Again I believe that was a "used to be issue".



These Foreign Companies are spending lots of money in the US, creating Jobs, and contributing to the economy. So buy what you want .

 

[Edward Lea.]

1952 Jeep.

 

[Dan Nevill]

Leave it up to Trep to ask. Now, it is quite simple. All cars made know have componants in them from all over the world. The question that you can ask is "Assemblied in America". That is about all you can be loyal to now. Me I spend my money on quality, what I want and budget. Buying a car is no longer buying an American nor Foreign. Just a world car.

 

[byron cooley]

How about the Saturn L and the Saab 9-3 sharing the same V6. Are you buying an American V-6 or a Sweedish V-6 when you buy a Saturn??

 

[TOMMY RICH]

My Mexican motor I just put in my Chevy says "Hecho en Mexico"!

Arreeeeeeba Ondalay Ondalay!:lol:

Maybe if I feed it beans, it will go faster?

 

[Dan Nevill]

TEE,



The only issue you may have if that now you may have to stop at all Taco Bell's.

 

[davetnitro]

How about, a vehicle owned by an american???? :blink::huh:

 

[JD Johnson]

This is the same problem with motorcycles. Everyone says buy american, buy hardley davidson but in reality the fuel system, front ends, electrics are all japenese. The brakes are german so where did the great american motorcycle go?

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Seriously guys...this is the kinda' stuff that really breaks my heart:angry:

I'm guess I'm just proud....:huh:

 

[Larry Harp]

American Car:

UN-American Car

This should explain everything.



Harpo

 

[Dewey Leggett]

What a way you have with pics, Harpo - perfect!

 

[TrepMan]

Thats a good point Mac - So if a car needs a thingamajiggy that is composed of 19 whatchajiggits, if the 19 whatchajiggits are bought from China but the thingamajiggy is actualy made here, does that make it an "american" product? And the GM statement that "GM says it still buys 99 percent of the parts found on vehicles sold to U.S. consumers from North American sources" made me laugh. They didn't say "from US owned companies", they said "North American sources". Based on that definition wouldn't the Nissan Titan be a "North American source" 100% built vehicle? LOL



Not slamming GM at all, just again its not easy saying you are buying American.



In my example, what if those 19 whatchajiggits cost a total wholesale price of $1000 to GM, the thingamajiggy had a material/labor cost of $5, so the total cost for the assembled thingamajiggy is $1005, and then GM sells those to Ford and parts departments for $1105 each. We know that GM makes a profit of $100 per thingamajiggy, but the Chinese companies may make $900 profit per unit, if their total cost was only $100 for all 19 whatchajiggits!! So while Ford bought from a US owned supplier (GM) 90%+ of the profit went to Chinese companies. Not so clear anymore!!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

See Mac, I told you not to post...........:huh:



TOXIC

 

[TrepMan]

Tox - One thing about this site is 98% of the time we can have a civil disagreement, I know Mac is hurting inside because of what GM is going through. And you all know I meant nothing toward Mac or anyone else with this post. It was just realy a question, given what Teri brought up.



There is no right or wrong answer, just personal opinion, which we all respect from others.



Sorry you felt Mac shouldn't have posted.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Tox..relax bro,..it's a 2 sentence "cut and paste".....LOL

I don't give a damn about hypothetical situations, smoke and mirrors or who buys what from where, for how much, or where the profits go....all i want to know is what's the best prop for my boat!?:blink::wacko:

 

[TrepMan]

Mac - Which boat is the question??? LOL



Hey what's this year's S&T Ranger? Z21 with a supersecrete Yammie 300hp!!!

 

[Bill McElroy]

no new boat in the plans Trep...not a priority at the moment.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

The MVM looks out for each other.....always will.



TOXIC