all kidding aside for the tin-glass debate

[JEFF WHITE]

all kidding aside now.all the big charter boats i see out on lake ontario,95% are fiberglass/kevlar blend.only a few are aluminum,or steel.why fiber?dont rightly know,but they ride nice due to hull design,the sprtcraft i was out in on lake erie in 6-8 ft waves rode great.i think due to the heavyness of the boat was why it rode good.all the charters i see running in 2-4's look smooth riding.downfall,need horse power to move it,which means gas consumption,means more fuel,weight,and so on.



i only rode in 1 nitro,a 170 rick clunn edition with a 90 merc on it,not too rough of a ride,but the operator wasnt too good at operating it.didnt trim it out right,but that didnt bother me.



so here we are again the debate over glass or tin?this will go on for generations to come,but tin is the way i will go next!



ok how many tin guys here registered?glass?

 

[Dave P]

PT 175 tin here. Glass does not like all the stumps I hit each outing! Unfortunately all my South Jersey lakes have an average depth of a foot and are man made loaded with timber.

 

[David Jordan]

Tracker 1800tf - Glass. Never going back to the non reflective side again.

 

[TrepMan]

PC 175 tin here!!

 

[Eric Wilder2]

Well, if they could put them sparkles on that stuff coke can are made from...mmmmm, I might consider switching....Oh on second thought, nevermind!

<b><><</b>

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Magna, you answered it yourself. The big water boys use big water rigs. Glass handles big water better, period. Tin flexes and then cracks, or pops rivets. Plus the lighter boat can't handle big waves as it gets tossed easier. Regarding the post below about space shuttles, they AIN'T tin, that I can promise ya. A lot of titanium with ceramic outershell. Ceramic is a lot closer to glass than it is tin! As for me and mine, GLASS! Forever more! (unless they make a 20' Avalanche with a 225 and give me a warranty) hehehehe

 

[Mark Hofman]

So that's why they build nuclear-powered aircraft carriers out of welded steel?

 

[Mark Hofman]

Just thought of somethin' else. The ONLY ships the U.S. Navy has that are built out of fiberglass are minesweepers. Destroyers, cruisers, battleships, tugs, carriers, subs, tenders, oilers, amphibs,...everything else is built out of metal. Some of them even use aluminum in the construction of the superstructure.

 

[Rich D]

I am now and will always be a tin man. I prefer the lighter boat and less maintenance.



Rich D

 

[C C]

Ok I have read enough lip service on Tin vs glass, facts appeal to me over lip service when it comes to spending my money.



I do not agree that all aluminum boats flex, crack, pop rivets and can't handle big engines or waves. Trep & Mo have posted facts but I have yet to see any posts disprove their them.



Fact: Xpress boat company has found a way to resolve those issues with a 21' aluminum boat with a 225hp engine and it runs at 76mph. No evidence of cracking hulls, crappy ride or unhappy owners....hummmm



Please explain, and include facts that tin can't do all of those things listed above. I doubt I would buy a glass boat, since running glass on the rivers here in New England is not a wise thing to do, but it sure would be nice to have some real facts on the topic.



I am seriously considering buying a 21' Xpress boat next year, I almost bought one a couple of months ago but missed out on the deal, so I decided to wait a year and put the money into our new summer cottage in NH. We expect to be finished with all of the fixing up by the spring and I can focus on getting into a new boat. My Targa is not suited for the lake our place is on because there are too many unmarked shallow areas with granite rock beds just waiting to take a bite out of the prop. So I am looking for a Tracker Crappy to keep there and use my other boat for rivers and big lakes.



So lets see some facts about Tin not being able to hang with glass any more. I think times are changing and Tin is In!



Cass

 

[Pierre Voisine]

Why Fiber ?



In my opinion, it's a manufacturing thing...a modl can produce many of the same hulls, not just one custom as welded steel or aluminum. By molding many the cost per goes down which is why it's the preferred option.



It's not just material costs either when fueling this debate people should remember process and labour times.



It's simple, if we could pull tin hulls out of molds...that would be the standard for boat building. This is why Tracker has chosen to try with the Avalanche and this WILL be the boats of the future. So really I don't what the debates all about....'glass is a pain in the a$$ and cost manufaturers thousands.



Like we say in the engineering world. If I could only invent Clear Aluminum....I'd be rich!



Pierre

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Isn't it funny how your opinion if it differs from someone's is considered "lip service" and yet their opinions are just fine??? And just when we were having fun. Once again if someone wanted to take my words out of text and not realize that on many a post I said that tin is fine and that I would run one if they gave me a warranty....oh wait that was THIS post! Guess you just can joke with some people wanting to take issue with you personally. Whatever, point being this, if you take the majority of most tin boats and subject them to continued abuse of big water, they will fail far before fiberglass. PROOF you say? FINE, go to the next intercoastal tourney held in VA, FL, GA for sailfish, or tuna. I have yet to see Hatteras or any other big water yacht company build a sportfishing boat out of tin.....why is that you suppose. Probably just lip service again. Then as Magna unbiasedly pointed out, the majority of charter captains (ya know the people whos life and livelyhood depend on their boat, but what do they know) run glass/kevlar rigs. I have owned 4 tin rigs and am on my second glass, soon to be third, so YES, my "lip service" comes with experience. Each tin rig I rode in leaked. Every older 12-18' tin rig I'VE (NOTE: not to say all, just the ones I've seen) seen has a coffee can "bail pump" laying somewhere in the bilge area. Funny how many can joke about glass, but when I joke about tin, somebody somewhere wants to "take offense" again......! I give up. What do I know! LOL Good for Express that they can make a tin boat capable of a 225, but run it side by side with a 929 or 521 or TR-21 on Lake Champlain or Erie or....and see which gets you back without blown discs, blood in your urine or serious hull/integrity issues after repeated use. Must be they'll hold up fine, after all, that's why you see so many on the pro circuits or on fishing shows......wait, I've only seen 1. Must just be me. My mistake, sorry!

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Please note everyone. I'm not saying glass is better in my post above. Just airing some side comments is all. I was having fun like you all, until someone once again wanted to ride me for it but not take issue with anyone else. Tin has it's place for sure. I'm just saying I prefer glass for the reasons above. You will never find the perfect boat. And so we fish on!

 

[Mark Hofman]

Everybody just Reeee-laxxxxxx.



Lets try our best to keep this from getting personal, and if you feel like someone else is making it personal try to see past it.



The fun of this discussion is to tear the issue apart and put forth our own opinions. We all know that tin has its place and fiberglass has its place. One is NOT better than the other in EVERY boat. (Rob, notice how I chose not to do the text-formatting thing here? Ha!)



Neither material is bullet proof. Any metal, subject to repeated over-stressing, will crack.



However, the truth is that fiberglass will also crack if over-stressed or abused. If that wasn't the case, then we'd never hear about stress cracks in fiberglass boats.



The issue of material failure - in my opinion - has more to do with matching up the design of the hull with the type of water that the boat will be operated in a majority of the time. I won't take out flat-bottom jon boat out on Lake of the Ozarks any more because I've got a v-hull that will deal with the chop, whitecaps and boat wakes better.



You also won't see someone race the Miss Budweiser unlimited hydrofoil along side an offshore racing boat. Why? Not material. Both are made out of fiberglass. Its because they have different hull shapes and designs.



Is fiberglass stronger than aluminum, as Rob's position indicates? Sometimes.



Is aluminum stronger as my position indicates? Sometimes.



The truth is, I want to take some of you sparkly, big- glass, high-horsepower guys out in my 150 hp TV-18 and get your thoughts on how she runs compared to your rig. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised!



At the same time, I'd love to drive a big 929 or 896 or especially an 882 out to see how it handles and performs.

I think "I" would be pleasantly surprised.



So...can we call a truce? That way we can get back to enjoying our boats - and each other's company.



MO

 

[Rob LaMoy]

I took the caps out. Better MO? Cool function Rich!

 

[Mark Hofman]

Whoaaa, Whoaaa, WHHHOOAAAA!!!!!



If you guys (and gals) want to trade personal punches, please - for the sake of the rest of us - take it to the chat room or to email.



The truth is, everyone here says stuff that can be misunderstood or construed to mean something the writer didn't intend.

 

[Mark Hofman]

Okay, so tell us, Rob... How'd ya do that editing?



Ah-ha!! The trick is to read the stuff Rich posts!

 

[Barry Loos]

I have a 2001 PT 175 tin boat and I love it. I like to keep my hobby inexpensive so I can fish often on all sizes of lakes and rivers. The glass boats are cute but have you seen their price tags? In my heart, I could not justify something that costly for a hobby. On the other hand, I have to admit that I do spend a lot on my fishing equipment. But catching fish is my passion; boating is not.



And one final thought, when I am done with my boat I will have it recycled to make beer cans. I don

 

[Rich Stern]

You guys and gals need to cool it.



We have a hard won reputation on this site for fairness and respect. Every time a thread like this goes in the gutter with personl attacks, you dent (or scratch) our collective reputation. So, do the rest of us a favor and take it offline if you feel the need to insult one another.

 

[C C]

Mo your sweet and Rich you are right. However, I was not throwing any punches, just being honest. So for the sake of other readers for the future I will make an effort to keep my brutally honest opinions to my self.



Cass

 

[TrepMan]

Since I get in the middle of these Tin vs. Glass debates with Rob, I hope ALL of you know that my views were honest and a lot of fun poking!!



Hey, if i had the $$ would I run a 882 or 911, SURE!! But as I've said before the bang for the buck for ME was the PC 175, could not TOUCH a new 'glass rig loaded out the door for 10K! Oh and still haven't found another Glass for Tin rig that is layed out as perfect as my PC 175 (this EDIT thing is COOL!!)



So, agree with Rich let's play nice in the sandbox or Rich will have to take all or TOYS away!!!

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Still can't do that. Hey Rich, can you do a little thingy button so I can do that too??? LOL

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Hey I thought we were having fun..I was playing nice (maybe a little rude with the FiberPoop thing) But still just haveing a little fun.. Rob did you know the Ceramic tiles on the bottom of the space shuttle where bonded on and not Riveted..bet ya did...Just some triva I picked up at Martin Marrietta when I was there..BF

P.S Rob that was not an insult or a challenge..BF