Sarah Palin

[Bill McElroy]

OMG!!........I'm in love,...I just dumped Danica Patrick and I'm moving to Alaska..and then DC!! :wub::wub:

 

[Edward Lea.]

Man did McCain turn this election on it's ear. This just got reallllllly interesting to say the least!!!!!

 

[Bill McElroy]

He sure stole the thunder from the Obamanation didn't he?? THAT's what experience will do for you!! LOL

 

[Berry Lindley]

It's interesting fo sho. If there are skeletons they will crawl out now.

 

[Bill McElroy]

as far as i can tell, she's only got one,..and it's lame at best......her "ex" brother in law (An Alaskan State Trooper) say's she tried to fire his boss,....'cuz she "alledgedly" wanted him to fire the Trooper as a favor for her sister.



That won't amount to much if anything!! Will be VERY interesting to see what her selection does for the poll's....I think it will help a BUNCH!!

 

[Jim in VA]

Mac:



Don't underestimate the potential scandal. The allegation is that Gov. Palin fired the state's Public Safety Commissioner because he refused to fire a state trooper that was divorcing Palin's sister. Since Gov. Palin ran on a platform of routing out corruption and undue influence in government, her alleged actions make her political platform suspect at best and hypocritical at worst. Moreover, abuse of public office for personal matters is a serious charge - one that warranted appointment of an independent investigation. Hopefully for McCain, this was thoroughly reviewed internally and concluded this really was a non-issue. That doesn't mean, however, that Obama will not try to make as much hay out this as possible.



From my own personal perspective, I'm trying to figure out how smart a move Palin is for McCain. Yes, McCain brilliantly stole the limelight from Obama and the timing could not have been more perfect on the heels of Obama's acceptance speech in Denver. In addition, his choice of Palin satisfies the core of the Republican party that demanded a VP candidate closer to the GOP's core conservative themes. On the other hand, McCain significantly undercut his ability to criticize Obama for lack of experience given that Palin has less than 2 years as governor and previously was mayor of a town of 5,500. I'm also not so sure that given Palin's conservative stance, that she necessarily attracts the women voters disappointed in Hillary Clinton's loss of the Democratic nomination. She also risks alienating conservative women by choosing to accept the nomination over the raising of her 5 kids (including the youngest, who has Down's syndrome).



Lots of factors swirling about. Needless to say, it will be an interesting two months.

 

[Mike Zechman]

Well, this is definetly great news, most people don't know Palin, but the ones that do, she is a huge asset, and I mean HUGE. She turned away FED money for her state to deal with it within the state on her own budget, thus allowing no interference form our own government. She is by far the best for Mcain IMO. I was not voting for either party, now I may change my mind, especially when I heard she was on the short list a few months back

 

[Warren David]

Granted she only has been governor for about 2 years and served as mayor of a small town, BUT Obamas' claim to fame is 144 days as a Senator. While some day she MAY have to step in as Commander and Chief, Obama would assume that role immediately.

 

[Rich Stern]

It looks like her political career spans about 16 years. But she also has a ton of life experience outside of politics as a normal person. OK, maybe a high achiever normal person. She's much more like one of us than the other folks in national politics, an outsider, and that's never a bad thing.



I love her resume. True reformer credentials, lots of indicators of strong character and tremendous work ethic.



Great pick, great timing. Hardball politics. Another forum I post on had a member put it this way:



"The rockstar gives a great speech....McCain congratulates him with a campaign add.(classy move)....then he kicks him in the ding ding!!"

 

[Edward Lea.]

There you go Raincloud36, she has executive experience and is going to be in the number two seat(VP), While Obama's team has the rookie in the drivers seat. A whole different set of situations there. Obama has zero executive experience.



Jim C. I think today's women will see raising 5 children while being able to handle her to date governor's job as an asset and will gravitate/rally arouind her for that. I don't think she will pull that many Hillary woman away from Obama but may bring the independents and new voters her way.



I am with Mac I can't wait to see the initial polls. Man did He steal Obama's three day weekend run in the news media.......

 

[Gene B]

:lol::lol: Rich! That is funny!

Jim C. Remember shes running as V.P. not President. And 2 years as a governor I think is a lot more experience than just being a Senator. I think you could make the case of a full time job as a Governor vs. realisticaly a part time job as a Senator. Overall I like the choice from what I've heard.



Mac, We need a Photo of her!!! Replacing Danica is a big step.



Gene

 

[Jim in VA]

I agree Palin's position as VP versus POTUS does make a difference. However, keep in mind that McCain will be 72 years old if elected. That would make him the oldest elected President to serve a first term in office. In addition to his health issues (prior history of skin cancer, wounds from time as POW), there are legitimate questions about whether he will survive the full first term. Obviously, Obama can't use this in mainstream media as pointing out such facts tends to be off-limits, but unlike Obama/Biden, there is the very real possibility that Palin will take over as Commander-in-Chief within McCain's first term. With only two years experience as Governor, there will be questions about her ability to lead. I will add, however, that I agree that two years as Governor is a heck of lot more than Obama's short stint as Senator. Again, the next two months will be very very interesting to watch!

 

[Gene B]

Most definitely!



Gene

 

[Jim C]

The reaction from women at work and others commenting was interesting. The educated women take her nomination as a slap in the face and nothing more than pandering for their vote, which it looks like he's definitely not getting now. The lower educated women seemed to be all gung-ho just because they share the same anatomy. LOL



I think that may be Carl Roves best political strategy of his career!

 

[Larry Harp]

If all McCain wanted for a running mate was a uterus why didn't he at least pick one with some credentials. This was obviously a direct order from the RNC to move to pander to the right. Obama has more smarts in his little finger than McCain who's only answer for every for every foreign policy problem is war and his only solution for the economy is lower taxes on the rich. We'll see how the beauty queen does in a foreign policy debate with Joe Biden. I can't wait.

 

[Jim C]

Good lord, that's going to be fun to watch! Biden is going to rip her to shreds in a VP debate!!!! LOL

 

[Marty Klein]

Life member NRA. She knows oil. Age appropriate babe. What else does she need?

 

[Jim C]

<Life member NRA. She knows oil. Age appropriate babe. What else does she need?>



Hmmmmmmmmmmm, maybe the same thing everyone seems to demand of Obama............ EXPERIENCE. She is kinda hot though. That man in disguise NASCAR chick doesn't have squat on her. :lol:

 

[Greg Meyer]

Do not over-estimate Joe Biden or under-estimate Sarah Palin. She has more experience as the Chief Executive of a "governmental entity" than all of the others put together. There is a world of difference between operating a Senate Staff and the reins of government. As a Governor and a Mayor she has at least had some experience in delegating within a chain of command.



As far as foreign policy issues... Well, we will just have to wait and see.



She has a phenomenal personal history. Unlike Obama and Biden, both creatures of "old style politics", she is a new face from outside the "inner circle". Biden is a Washington insider and Obama is a "soldier" in the Daley political machine in Illinois.



Frankly, as a not so long ago "hockey mom" she has much more in common with all of "us" than the others do. Sho does not have a "personal fortune" or even "modest wealth". She and her union member husband are "working stiffs" like us.



Why is her short resume "bad"... and, Obama's not relevant. Obama is the first string quarterback for the Dems... Palin is McCain's back-up. If Obama's short resumke is no problem in the driver's seat, hers should be even less of a problem. But, alas, more Democratic Smoke and Mirros is at work here... spin and the truth don't have to mesh as long as it "sounds good".



If she and McCain don't win I am going to try to trade a jailed former Republican Illinois Governor and a soon to be jailed Democratic one for a hockey Mom that belongs to the NRA to be our next Governor here in Illinois.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Geeez, I want to get in this but my pills are making me fall asleep on my laptop.. You can read down these posts and safely pick out the Republicans from the Democrats. Some started out having fun about her looks etc.. and then other's had to jumo in and try to lambaste her. Nobody in this post, all the way down to "Gene" got nasty or tried to belittle anyone in the Obama camp. Then right after Gene, Terroreyes and SoonerFan started in on the nasty comments. That's a typical Democratic Hysterical response..



Uncle Billy



PS.. I just as wish Rich would stop the political talk or at least somehow limit it to one thread. I now understand why some forums have Moderators for such things..

 

[Tornado]

Whether your a demo or a repub I will just point out, in my lifetime, 71 yrs, every time the country has developed problems we have had the party in control of power, both the presedent and both houses of congress. For the demos Jimmy Carter and for the repubs George Bush. When there is no balance whichever is in power does what it likes regardless of the will of the people and right now it could well be that we are going all demo and then watch out for the second coming of Jimmy Carter.

 

[Rich Stern]

Bill, what is there to moderate? Somebody's opinion that you define as distasteful? Part of living in a free society is the having freedom to disagree, particularly about politics, and further still, disagree in ways that some might find offensive.



There is an old saying in politics: If you want a candidate who you agree with 100% of the time, your name should be on the ballot. Trasnlated to forum posting: If you only want to read things you agree with, you need to find a forum where you will be the only one posting.



Nobody broke any rules here. If you don't want to read political disagreement, don't click on a thread about politics.



Other than that...have a good weekend!

 

[Dan J.]

Putting aside Gov. Palin's obvious overwhelming experience compared to the entire Democatic ticket, she is a mother of five children, the youngest born with Down Syndrome. (Trisomy 21) That reason stands out amongst the others for my family. The liberal pro-choice crowd pitifully herald that as a virtue, "that she would have the baby after confirming the diagnosis." With a non-murderous, Pro-Life outlook there was never a choice to be made. People who condemn a person with Down Syndrome to a life of simplicity and family burden are completely clueless to the actuality of the diagnosis and the ability to enjoy a full life in every aspect. The liberal platform believes that the diagnosis of this condition, and any other reason felt for that matter, well justifies their murderous mantra.

 

[Eddie Payne]

I will say what I have posted before, if they all would review their job descriptions based on the branches of government, things would run better in DC. Like others said, Palin is more one of us than professional politician and from what I have heard so far, she should put the fear into the establishment. About her experience, who flippin' cares, if Obama is qualified in some people's opinion, then she sure the heck is as well. And as to the debate with Biden, the woman is a professional journalist, ole Joe might be flexin' a bit now, but she may be more than he bargained for.



In the long run it will be an interesting couple of months, and I hope and pray that for the sake of our country, that whoever is elected remembers we elected them to serve us, not the person in the mirror.

 

[JR F]

I was available and got passed over.....Oh well there's always next time...

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I think I was just wishful thinking Rich and did not mean any offense to you or anyone else. I could just see trouble brewing over the horizon and as a couple of later posts showed, they are getting more and more 'personal'. I enjoy the "no moderator" freedom and all I said was "I now understand why some forums have Moderators for such things." I still do and I'm sorry if that angered you for some odd reason or other.

Where did I define anything as distasteful? Even though I do find the statement, "If all McCain wanted for a running mate was a uterus" as just that, I didn't say anything about it.!

Arguing, talking about, discussing, agreeing and not agreeing is fine with me and though I do find the "bloodletting" distasteful, I still enter in such conversations.

If you don't want to read political disagreement, don't click on a thread about politics.

I find that statement condescending and not necessary. The title of this thread is "Sarah Palin". I find it impossible to not click on something where I don't know what's going to be said and by the time you get to the nasty parts, it's too late.



Where I erred was in the 'PS'. I remember being very tired when I added that and I should not have said "I just wish RICH would, etc.," I shouldn't have added that with your name in it. Other than mentioning your name I believe I should be afforded the same Freedom to do this and Freedom to do that as anyone else.



Other than that...you have a great weekend too!

 

[Ken Sabin]

The last gasp of a dying campaign !

 

[Larry Harp]

I find the idea that he would put a woman with no experience what so ever in such a position of power distasteful.. At least he could have chosen Kay Bailey Huchinson, or Christy Todd Whitman or even Carly Fiorina would be better. He's only met Shara Palin once... couldn't know anything about her except what somebody told him about her. I would be surprised if she has ever even been to Washington D.C. McCain is 72 years old and has a history of cancer. Say what you want about his health but I'll bet he couldn't buy a life insurance policy. This wouldn't be such an issue if the McCain campaign hadn't made Obama's so called lack of experience such an issue. It shows McCains total lack of judgement. At one time I was a huge John McCain fan I would have happily voted for him in 2000 but I'll bet the John McCain of 2000 wouldn't vote for the John McCain of 2008.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Harpo, I would have to research Sarah Palin a lot more than I have before I compared her with Whitman or Hutchinson..That's in idealology that is:lol: Not in looks.:wub: She may be but a heartbeat away but she's still in second place until something like that happens. Mr. Obama starts out in first place and I don't think the Presidency should count as O.J.T., that's all. My point is that personally, I am not enthralled with either candidate!:unsure:

Ok, I can't continue with this because a movie called "The Invasion" just came on a little bit ago and it's a remake of "The Invasion of the Body Snatchers" with Nicole Kidman. It's been on for 25 minutes and in that time I haven't looked at this.

So you can see what importance order you come in Harpo. A conversation about the election of the leader of the free world or pods from outer space....:huh:



Uncle Billy

 

[Berry Lindley]

Well, I have to jump in. I think the big stir may be that she is a tiger on corruption and I like that. Maybe they ought to be concerned- in BOTH parties. What I have seen of her is positive. Yes, she is a little light on political experience, but a good complement to him. Maybe these 2 can clean up the political scene that both parties are participating in . I'm sick of both parties developing their positions as a party and then all of them line up like idiots to vote as they are told. This is both parties, and did I say I was SICK of it? They need to do what they are elected to do and serve the country, not their party.

 

[Dan J.]

I find the idea that the DNC would put a man with no experience what so ever in such a position of power distasteful.. At least they could have chosen Hillary Rodham Clinton, or Dennis Kucinich or even Bill Richardson would be better. He's only chosen Joe Biden out of fear from the Clintons on his ticket "just a heartbeat away". I would be surprised if he has ever even been to Washington D.C. in support of his constituants. His record clearly shows that. Barack Hussein Obama II is an inexperienced young man and has a history of nefarious dealings. Say what you want about his "Change" platform but as polarizing as he is I'll bet he couldn't buy a life insurance policy. This wouldn't be such an issue if the Obama campaign hadn't made Palin's so called lack of experience such an issue. It shows Obama's total lack of judgement. At no time was I ever a huge Obama fan and I would have happily voted against him in 2000 during his unsuccessful bid for the House of Representative but thankfully the residents of Illinois took care of that.



Other than the fun I had being Joe Biden* with your earlier statement above, I am shocked that you would blast on people in one thread about not knowing what they're talking about and repeating falsehoods and inuendos, then here you make absurd statements like, "He's only met Shara Palin once... couldn't know anything about her except what somebody told him about her. I would be surprised if she has ever even been to Washington D.C." I thought the "Glass House" that Hillary referenced referred to the level in our society that women have been subjugated and confined to for many years. Your continuing statements contradicting your earlier distaste of similar acts proves the glass house reference is obviously where some democrats reside, content in throwing the proverbial stones. It literally is the worldwide idiom brought to life. :lol:
http://www.famousplagiarists.com/politics.htm

 

[mike chip]

everyone keeps saying she has no experience, well guess what, she has the most of all the canidites. She is the only one to run something by her self, it started with her pta exp, and ended with governer. Mccain, obama, or biden, havbe never run something solely. They have always been part of a group, ie congress. at least she had the buck stop at her desk. hell none of the other guys has even been of charge of the pta.

mike c

 

[Larry Harp]

I find the idea that the DNC would put a man with no experience what so ever in such a position of power distasteful.. At least they could have chosen Hillary Rodham Clinton, or Dennis Kucinich or even Bill Richardson would be better. He's only chosen Joe Biden out of fear from the Clintons on his ticket "just a heartbeat away". I would be surprised if he has ever even been to Washington D.C. in support of his constituants. His record clearly shows that. Barack Hussein Obama II is an inexperienced young man and has a history of nefarious dealings. Say what you want about his "Change" platform but as polarizing as he is I'll bet he couldn't buy a life insurance policy. This wouldn't be such an issue if the Obama campaign hadn't made Palin's so called lack of experience such an issue. It shows Obama's total lack of judgement. At no time was I ever a huge Obama fan and I would have happily voted against him in 2000 during his unsuccessful bid for the House of Representative but thankfully the residents of Illinois took care of that.



Other than the fun I had being Joe Biden* with your earlier statement above, I am shocked that you would blast on people in one thread about not knowing what they're talking about and repeating falsehoods and inuendos, then here you make absurd statements like, "He's only met Shara Palin once... couldn't know anything about her except what somebody told him about her. I would be surprised if she has ever even been to Washington D.C." I thought the "Glass House" that Hillary referenced referred to the level in our society that women have been subjugated and confined to for many years. Your continuing statements contradicting your earlier distaste of similar acts proves the glass house reference is obviously where some democrats reside, content in throwing the proverbial stones. It literally is the worldwide idiom brought to life.

Message was edited by Dan J. on 8/31/2008 at 08:54 CT



http://www.famousplagiarists.com/politics.htm

Dan Dan Dan.... your argument has no merit. Let's start at the top...

I find the idea that the DNC would put a man with no experience what so ever in such a position of power distasteful.. At least they could have chosen Hillary Rodham Clinton, or Dennis Kucinich or even Bill Richardson would be better.

He wasn't "put" into power by the DNC, he was elected in a Primary Election. Both parties have them every four years. As far as Obama "having no experience what so ever" is inaccurate as well. He has a BA in Political Science specializing in International Relations from Columbia University and Juris Doctor Magna Cum Laude from Harvard Law School. He was also choosen to be President of the Harvard Law Review. Prominent alumni of the Harvard Law Review include Supreme Court Justices Edward Sanford, Felix Frankfurter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Antonin Scalia, Stephen Breyer and Chief Justice John G. Roberts, Jr., Presidential nominee Senator Barack Obama, Secretary of State Dean Acheson, Charles Hamilton Houston, Alger Hiss, Archibald MacLeish, Secretary of Transportation and Brown v. Board of Education attorney William Coleman, Jr., Judge Richard Posner, Chief Judge Henry Friendly, Chief Judge Michael Boudin, U.S. Department of Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, former U.S. Solicitor General Paul Clement, U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission Chairman Chris Cox, former New York governor Eliot Spitzer, Harvard Law School Dean Elena Kagan, Yale Law School Dean Harold Koh, former Canadian ambassador Allan Gotlieb, former Assistant Attorney General Viet Dinh, former New York State Solicitor General Preeta D. Bansal, University of Texas President William C. Powers, and former Harvard University president Derek Bok. After law school Obama worked as a community organizer and practiced as a civil rights attorney before serving in the Illinois Senate from 1997 to 2004. He taught constitutional law at th

 

[Randy Walls]

Obama or as I like to say NObama will never get my vote. One of the main reasons is his support and aid in creation of the very poorly and mis-leadingly named bill called the Employee Free Choice Act, where if someone wants to Unionize a business all they have to do is have the cards signed by half of the people working at any business. NO PRIVATE VOTE is taken and as much as the Unions would like you to belive they are worse than any company I know in lieing and pressuring people to sign cards than anyone. With a narrow sighted and poorly mis-guided propased law that is co-written/developed by NObama I can't believe his is for any one but himself and the Union money they throw at Democratic candidates to do their bidding.



Disgusting and VOTE MCCAIN!



Randy!

 

[Dan J.]

LOL...



Man, you did spend some time on that! I didn't mean for you to put so much effort into it. If you'd taken a minute, you might have noticed that all I did was restructure your preceding post (with comensurate accuracy) counter Obama of course. (Ala' Joe Biden style. :lol: ) Sorry to see you spend so much time disecting your own argument, just from a 180 deg. viewpoint.



We both know we'll never agree on our political stance. We never have. We do agree on many other unrelated things, and I really do enjoy your spirit politically, I must say. Luckily for us, this only comes up during elections.



Oh, and for the last question posed: - I wouldn't waste a vote on the Democratic ticket to put an almost four decade, career politician like plagiarizing, "Lyin' Joe" Biden a heartbeat away from the POTUS. - (See no Obama mention! )



Now forget about all this stuff we can't do much about but get ourselves worked up, and go enjoy your Labor day!

 

[Larry Harp]

Of course I noticed that you restructured what I said. However I was right...or should I say correct.:lol::lol: I live this stuff every four years. It's better than football to me. I still remember the first election I was interested in... Ike beat Stevenson. I was six years old. Bet you can't guess which side I was on. I couldn't have a friend that was a Dem because we wouldn't have anything to talk about. :lol: I'm very happy with the two party system the pendulum swings both left and right and things do get accomplished just very slowly which is probably a good thing for Washington. I just hate it when someone talks about a candidate with language like, "I feel he is" or "I think he would". Know who your candidate is.



I quit before addressing the plagiarism charge on Biden. I think it's funny that you are digging up stuff that was started by Michael Dukakis in the 88 primary. Biden had quoted and credited Neal Kinnock many times... except once when the Dukakis cameras were rolling. Sort of a "macaca" moment if you will. It's obvious he's not the most eloquent of speakers like when he called Obama "clean and articulate", I'm sure he meant to say clean cut and articulate but it came out wrong and in this day and age everything gets overblown. If that's the worst thing you got on Biden, then I'm not worried.



Randy, I don't know what kind of work you do but I assume you're not a union member... neither am I. However, if you enjoy your 40 hour work week or you health care plan or your paid vacation or your retirement plan or your safer work place or the fact that there are not children working there or the fact that you have a job in the US and not in China or India and the rise of American industry in the 20th century.... Thank the Union.

Republican leadership don't like unions because they would prefer to receive one $100,000 contribution from one fat cat donor that they can do a favor for than 10,000 $100 contribution that they would have to go against the fat cat who would want to have his workers working in unsafe conditions at starvation wages. One of the great mysteries of life is why working class people vote against their pocketbooks and vote for a Republican. Just ask John McCain... he thinks anyone making under $5,000,000 a year is middle class. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Greg Meyer]

And, I live in Illinois. My son, while still in law school, worked on the staff of a Republican Illinois State Senator and became very well acquainted with Obama. From our perspective here in Illinois, Obama is a "creature" of the Chicago Democratic Political Machine. And, if you believe that it was all just a coincidence with the Rezko stuff I have some Southwest Waterfront Property that I can let you have for a song.



Do you think that Obama is going to admit it was all part of a dirty deal? But, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and talks like a duck... The "stink" that rises from the State Capitol here and from the City of Chicago would gag a maggot. Obama has never challenged any of that machine politics... He has steered his millinoins of member intiatives and earmarks to projects and areas favored by the Daley Machine. He has "helped" his friend Rezko and we (here in Illinois) all know it. He just hasn't been stupid about (unlike our twit Governor). And, his friend Rezko has helped him.



At least McCain takes no earmark money and Sarah Palin signed strong government ethics legislation. He ran her our Attorney General out of office. Not once, has Obama ever stood up for good government in Illinois. Not once. He has, instead, made deals and supported the most corrupt State Government in this country.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I know my Dad was a devout Democrat and union man and I can only hope he forgives me when we meet again.:unsure: He was a union man for the exact reasons Harpo mentioned in his last paragraph, though he died before the union got him a five day work week. For my entire life, until he died, he had to work a six day week with Saturday being his only day off.

He always said that the democrats were for the working man and that's how he voted his entire life. He also quoted quoted Kennedy's inaugural speech whenever an entitlement, or "the Gov't. should help us" argument started. "And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you

 

[Randy Walls]

Uncle Billy, My dad was in a union for over twenty five years and most of that a stewart. I am in Human Resources and have not doubt that many things in the long ago past were brought on by unions such as work weeks and safer enviornments. But Now all of the is over with the exception of a few weak brained and greedy companys. Unions have turned into a strict business entity with very little to do with the common man. they spew rhetoric but do what is on their agenda and give littel back to the people they are suppsoed to be serving. I deal with it every day and have even been praised by unions for saving them so much money by doing things right! Many (most) I deal with on a day to day basis do not want the union but the Employee Free Choice Act would be an attrocity. Nobama is behind this in so many ways and many other things that I am so against. My Father doesn't even trust him and my father has served his country, served his man as a union stewart, president of the VFW and American Legion and other entities. He is vocal about his stance and we have not ever agreed about much when it came to politics, but we do now!



Randy!

 

[Larry Harp]

Greg, like I said before; I don't know if something shady went on or not but so far nothing damning has been discovered. I researched the subject until I'm blue and all I can find is the controversy over the 10 foot wide strip of land that Rezko parceled off and sold to Obama for $60,000 above the appraised value. Try as I can I don't see the big deal. Hell, I've been involved in kinkier deals than that and with rougher people. Where's your outrage on McCains relationship with Charles Keating? Keating was found guilty and did hard time for fraud, racketeering and conspiracy. McCain intervened on behalf of Charles Keating after Keating gave McCain at least $112,00 in contributions. McCain made at least 9 trips on Keating's airplanes, and 3 of those were to Keating's luxurious retreat in the Bahamas. McCain's wife and father-in-law also were the largest investors (at $350,000) in a Keating shopping center; the Phoenix New Times called it a "sweetheart deal." I'm not saying he's not a bad guy but Rezko hasn't even been found guilty yet. And if you want to talk about bad deals with bad guys let's dig into some of G.W. Bush's deals during his oil business days. Also his Texas Rangers baseball team had some very big questions attached to it. Where's your outrage about that?



Where's the outrage on Cindy McCain stealing drugs from a charity clinic to feed her addiction?



Where's the outrage for John McCain having a year long affair with Cindy Hensley, the future Cindy McCain, while he was still married to his first wife, Carol McCain, who had waited for him while he was in Vietnam and had been horribly injured in a car wreck? Nancy Reagan was so outraged she wouldn't even speak to him for years. Here's the link...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-divorce11-2008jul11,0,6546861.story?page=1



If John Edwards is unfit to be president because he had an affair and if Bill Clinton can be impeached because he had an affair .... why does McCain get a free pass?

 

[Greg Meyer]

First, Rezko has been found guilty on at least a dozen or more charges. He hasn't been sentenced yet. He will be sentenced to at least 14 to 20 years.



Why am I "outraged"? I live in Illinois. I have known who and what Tony Rzko was and is for ten to fifteen years. So did Obama. Everyone knows/knew what he was... a "pay to play" power broker.



It was not a coincidence that Rita Rexzko bought the vacant lot. It "just hapopened" to be that the seller would not sell the house unless and until a buyer for the lot was found if the lot was not going to be sold with the house. So for Obama to get his house he had to find a buyer for the lot... one that would not also buy his house. And, wasn't it interesting that the house sold for 15% ($300,000) under the asking price but the lot sold at full price, on the same day. A little "shifting" here and there, maybe. The seller got the $2,000,000.00 and Obama got the "bargain" side of the deal...



The Chicago Tribune (archive) story has a bit more detail.



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0611010273nov01,0,6186743.story?page=3 (below also)



McCain was thoroughly investigated by the (then Democratically controlled) Senate Ethics Committee and was not found to have done anything wrong.



As I said before. It is not the substance of the land deal, alone. It is Obama's "right there in the bed" with Rezko (as most of the other "pay to play" Illinois Democrats) that is "damning". He is part and parcel of the "crooked" machine political system here. He's no "reformer"! Our current governor is next, we all hope.



And, we don't know if Obama is headed for trouble. He might be. In one court filing in the Rezko trial, the Federal Prosecutors recited from "public Official A" (then using B through Z and then AA, BB and so on) to "Public Official QQ" to identify the various known "deals" of influence peddling, etc. It is that "open and notorious" here.



John Edwards lost the primnaries way before the "affair" was known. Bill Clinton was not impeached because he had an affair. Bill Clinton was impeached for the same reasoin that he was disbarred by the Arkansasan Supreme Court. PERJURY!!!!! There is no exception for perjury about "private" matters. It is a crime, period.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chicago/chi-0611010273nov01,0,6186743.story?page=3

 

[Larry Harp]

I know my Dad was a devout Democrat and union man

Must of been a strong wind blowing the day the nut fell from that tree! :lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I don't know how to do it on-line but I'm giving you the biggest raspberry you've ever seen or heard right now!



Uncle Billy

 

[Bill McElroy]

Gene,.....Ask and you shall receive!!



"Hey big Fella,...not only do I hunt and fish,...I'm a lifetime member of the NRA, I love Moose stew,....and Mini doesn't have ANY chit in Alaska,..it's ALL ours,..and we'd be thrilled to share it with you!!...C'mon up and stay awhile!":wub:

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Pleasent on the eyes for sure:wub:

 

[Mini]

This is a joke. I am so pissed at this WWE maneuver by the GOP. If she looked like Janet Reno, she wouldnt be next in line to be the leader of the free world.



With all of the problems in this country I would have like to see someone that wouldbe talking about how to fix them, not a beauty pagent.



Politics in this nation is akin to nothing but a joke. This is disgusting.

 

[Rich Stern]

mini, looks aside, she's actually a terrific pick for addressing our problems. How many other potential VP candidates have a proven record of fiscal responsibility and a demonstrated willingness to go after corruption in government?

 

[TOMMY RICH]

A lil' harsh this mornin' aren't we Mini?:lol:

 

[Bill McElroy]

We liberated Kuwait, in less time than it took Reno to make a decision on Wako! There's no doubt our political system needs a wake-up call and a massive shake-up!! Put a butt-kickin' no-nonsense, truely American mother of 5 in there and she just might be the one who can convince the real movers and shakers to do something!! She very well could be a PERFECT pick.......gotta have a little faith man,...there are higher powers at work here!!

 

[Mini]

I understand all that Rich. But you cannot deny that this was a calculated move to put a woman in the White House before the Dems. This was about gaining the female vote PERIOD. It had nothing to do with what needs to be done in this country. Sure she has some creds, but so do MANY other people.



It has turned into a joke. This political race, out political atmosphere, our country. They are making a mockery of what was once the best government in the world.



All problems aside, would you have picked her? Talk about lacking in international poolicy, I have heard she has only been off of US soil once......not that George is/was all that stellar either.



As far as going after corruprion in government it is a little different in Alaska than in Washington.



It just sickens me to no end. This election is no longer about the United States of America as a whole and the problems the people of this country face. It is more like a WWE Pay per View special. Excuse me while I go throw up.....

 

[Bill McElroy]

LMAO,......someone once told me,...."Go have a Marlboro and a cup of coffee and RELAX!"

 

[TOMMY RICH]

How many elections we ever had that were really legit?

It's ALL about politics!

 

[Mini]

I am relaxed, but pissed.



Just because we have had bad elections before makes this ok?



Mac I didnt say I wanted Reno, not need to bring up her lack of decision making ability.



Do you REALLY, HONESTLY think she will be able to make a difference in the old boy network in Washington?



Perot had the best chance to do that. This is a joke. Period.



I will admit that I dont know that much about her. McCain has met her....ONCE!



This guy has 8 toes in the grave and this is what he comes up with? Cmon people...be realistic.

 

[Mini]

Oh and she has more than one "skeleton". To her credit she was upfront with McCain's handlers about it. Seems her 17 year old daughter was knocked up. She plans on having the baby and the father has asked for her hand in marriage.



Again, I am NOT saying anything bad about Palin. I dont know much about her (yet), but the move is something that Vince McMahon would do in the WWE. It hass turned politics in this country into a bigger circus than it was.



I cant beleive no one else here can see that? And arent as pissed as I am about it. I guess we can all go down the path to the Freak Show Circus that is the American Voting and Election process, I for one dont like it.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Well...ya better hope like hell that nothing happens to Bush OR Cheney in the next few mos,..'cuz PELOSI is next in-line!!! Honestly.....I'd rather see Palin in the oval office than Pelosi!! But,...the old-boy network HAS to change sometime,..and even if it takes generations to change...it's gotta start sometime,..and you'll see that change "started" sooner and faster from HER than you would from Biden....afterall..he's just another one of the old-boys anyway!!

 

[Rich Stern]

Mini, I have a lot more faith in underexposed/everyday folks like Sarah Palin than I do the big time political insiders.



I don't love McCain, but he has some demostrated talents that I do care about. The big one is being able to say "no" to party pressure. The biggest political problem we face as Americans is having an entrenched political class that will do whatever it takes to maintain a stranglehold on our government, including selling out the future of the country. McCain is willing to buck that system, to some degree. And Palin...she's willing to take a sledgehammer to it.



Palin, as a politician, is a return to what was originally intended by the founders: Regular people, stepping out of their everyday lives, to participate in the government process, not as a career choice to further personal interests.



Moreso than nearly any powerful politician today, Palin is "one of us." She perceives Washington the same way many of us do: Broken and in need of overhual. And that is who we need to govern. Badly.

 

[Bill McElroy]

GEEEZ,...a teenage pregnancy sure is uncommon in THIS country,....this shouldn't be a campaign issue anyway!!..It's a personal PRIVATE family matter and even BHO thinks that the candidates "kids" are OFF LIMITS. (BUT,.knowing that she's keeping the baby and getting married says GREAT THINGS about her families beliefs, her upbringing and her bravery.....IF she chose to abort it and tried to cover it up...THAT would be an issue, but not against her MOTHER,..it would be her DAUGHTER's decision, and only the dem's would try and use it against her Mom.) Sarah is pro-life, and fortunately, for the baby,...so is her daughter! It'll all work out.......life is good!!

 

[Greg Meyer]

Franklin Roosevelt had NEVER met Harry Truman when he chose him as his running mate. Truman was selected purely for political reasons. Most Vice-Presidential candidates are...



However, Truman rose to the challenge and is considered one of the better 20th Century Presidents.



Governor Palin is no less or more prepared to become the President than most of the ones we have elected. Bill Clinton had no foreign policy experience... He was the Governor of Arkansas... Obama has been in the Senate for two years...



Then there are the "over qualified"... The Washington insiders who perpetuate the pay to play and good old boy and all that...



Within a year Governor Palin, if electeds Vice-President, will presumably be part of a well running Presidential Administartion. No matter who gets elected that first twelve months is some tough on the job training... Thankfully, both parties have their Jim Bakers, et al standing in the wings to coach every new administration. I am not as enamored with the pro or con experience argument. Obama is just as short as Palin, but that alone does not make his candidacy a joke. Now, on "character" and "policies"... I will gladly take Sarah Palin... even if she tried to get her abusive former brother-in-law fired. She wasn't cozing up to a Tony Rezko... She didn't steer money through government programs to friends and political cronnies... Character and fiscal conservatism are what draw me to McCain and Palin. Earmaks are the fuel of corruption in Washington and both, unlike Obama, dislike the concept..

 

[Mini]

I am NOT pushing a pro-Obama ticket here people. Forget that. My feelings abotu this have absolutely NOTHING to do with him or the Dem party.



I am NOT saying that a "regular" person isnt a good thing.



Listen to what I AM saying....





She was chosen because she is a good looking woman. One that will appeal to the women voters that were looked over when Hillary didnt get the nod from Obama. THATS IT! Period. You can say what you want about her abilities (and I thank God she does have SOME). But this has turned into a political nightmare. Once again, if she looked like Reno...OK scratch that, not Reno....Not even Hillary, if she looked like an old lunch room lady, do you REALLY, HONESTLY think she would have been chosen?



Dont change the subject, dont add more fuel, dont try to convince me or make me look the other way at something else that totally irrelevant to the question that I have just asked.



Now answer me in one word....yes or no ONLY. Would she have been picked if she wasnt pretty?

 

[Bill McElroy]

Who knows!!??...But you can answer this one:..."Do you only hang out with pretty women stricktly for political reasons?!" :blink:





I didn't think so!

 

[Larry Harp]

Rich, that might not be such an accurate statement. Check this out....



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26504638/



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/01/palin-received-millions-i_n_123004.html



Some more interesting reading on Palin....



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26501863/



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/08/31/mccain-camp-didnt-search_n_122823.html



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sidney-blumenthal/why-palin-mccain-v-rove_b_122841.html



And perhaps most interesting for a VP candidate for a campaign that touts "Country First"....






http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

 

[Bill McElroy]

OK.....throw everything aside,........what does she DRIVE!!??...THAT alone will determine MY vote!!! LOL

 

[Mini]

Mac,



You didnt follow directions....



Yes or No. Simple. Answer it.



I refuse to answer another question when mine has gone unanswered.

 

[Larry Harp]

The talking heads are already speculating that she won't be on the ticket 30 days from now.:wub:

 

[Bill McElroy]

Mini,...I did,....I said,.."Who knows?!".....I don't...and you certainly don't either!! (Unless McCain called you and asked for your input,....he didn't call me!)

 

[Bill McElroy]

Sooner,...maybe they'll replace her with Ann Coulter!!:wub: Better wear a cup...she'll rip your man-hood off and throw it at Bama!! :lol:

 

[Texas Transplant]

One word answer for Mini:



Irrevalant.



Tex

 

[Mini]

The question is a yes or no Mac (and Tex, but Tex if you meant irrelevant, then your answer I presume would be Yes). Not multiple choice.



If you think her looks had something to do with her getting picked, then its one answer. If you think her looks had nothing to do with her getting picked, then its the other answer.



Simple. yes or no. This is not a scientific poll on whether you feel she is qulaified or not, whether you agree with it or not. It is what I said.



This is YOUR OPINION. YES or NO?



(Why does it have to be so difficult? Or do I have to make it worth your while and send a gift to all that respond? LOL)

 

[Mini]

BTW just to set the record straight....I would hit it

 

[Dan J.]

No.



Your Welcome.

 

[Mini]

THANK YOU DAN J!!!!

 

[Bill McElroy]

I still don't know,...(and further more...it doesn't matter!!) I still think it's one helluva "pleasant surprise!"...LOL

 

[Mini]

Typical Republican GM response....



It does matter to me Mac, or else I wouldnt have asked. Or are you saying that your opinion doesnt matter?

 

[Bill McElroy]

..my opinion on whether or not she would've been picked if she was NOT pretty does NOT matter.......

 

[Mini]

Ok. Your opinion does not matter to me. Thank for telling me that.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I know mine doesn't...just ask my wife!:lol:

 

[Bill McElroy]

It never did...ahahahaa...i'm always wrong and you're always right,..and you'll tell me so!!

 

[Mini]

Thank you for your non-help buddy!

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I think you fellers need a beer

 

[Mini]

No beer. Never drink the stuff.

 

[Bill McElroy]

LOL!!! I can't answer a YES or NO question when I don't know the ~!@#@#~@ answer!! I have NO IDEA what McCain's list of "criteria" was when he was selecting a VP candidate!!



(obviously Mitt Romney wasn't pretty enough!!) LMAO!!!

 

[Mini]

this time read slowly with your glasses on....



Your OPINION!!!!!

 

[Bill McElroy]

DOES NOT MATTER



Just VOTE on Nov.4th....that's all that DOES matter!!



carry on!!

 

[Texas Transplant]

No, I do not think that her 'looks' were part of the process or mattered. No more so than Joe Biden's looks were part of Obama's process. And since we are on VP canidates . . . .



Obama - the 'Change' candidate who selected a very staunch Washington Long Time Bureaucrat/Politican to help him 'change'. Me thinks not. The Dem's wanted an 'attack dog', and got it in Biden.



Looking forward to hearing Palin tomorrow night. I want to see how she handles herself, in the limelight, for a longer time than she was on the podium the other day.



Also, anyone notice that for the most part, that the 'Obama Nation Political Machine' is now 2nd or 3rd page news?



Tex

 

[Mike L.]

How To Save the Government $5 Million





A president's pension currently is $191,300 per year, until he is 80 years old.



Assuming the next president lives to age 80. Sen. McCain would receive ZERO pension as he would reach 80 at the end of two terms as president.



Sen. Obama would be retired for 26 years after two terms and would receive $4,973,800 in pension.





Therefore it would certainly make economic sense to elect McCain in November.





Now that's non-partisan thinking and Sarah's on the winning side!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

What I find odd is that the political machine always wants change no matter who the sitting President is and they always want "one of us" and when "one of us" steps up, they then become "not qualified". I do not see what Palin has done in her political career as a negative, I do not see what has happened (and continues to happen) in her personal life as a negative. She has had to deal with what "we" have to deal with in our own lives and familys. Unwed teens, special needs children, divorce and raising 5 kids. She is not from the elite class who send their children off to boarding schools or have them raised by nannys. Isn't that what everybody loved about JFK?? His family and let's face it, he was of the elite class. Easy solution...make up your own mind, not with partisan propaganda. Look at the candidate, their stance on issues close to you and ask yourself..."Do I feel a connection" with this candidate? I feel more connected with the McCain/Palin ticket than I have in a lot of elections past. That gives me hope. Vote your heart, not your party......BUT VOTE or you have no platform to belly ache from!!



TOXIC

 

[Dan J.]

What I find odd is that the political machine always wants change no matter who the sitting President is and they always want "one of us" and when "one of us" steps up, they then become "not qualified". I do not see what Palin has done in her political career as a negative, I do not see what has happened (and continues to happen) in her personal life as a negative. She has had to deal with what "we" have to deal with in our own lives and familys. Unwed teens, special needs children, divorce and raising 5 kids. She is not from the elite class who send their children off to boarding schools or have them raised by nannys. Isn't that what everybody loved about JFK?? His family and let's face it, he was of the elite class. Easy solution...make up your own mind, not with partisan propaganda. Look at the candidate, their stance on issues close to you and ask yourself..."Do I feel a connection" with this candidate? I feel more connected with the McCain/Palin ticket than I have in a lot of elections past. That gives me hope. Vote your heart, not your party......BUT VOTE or you have no platform to belly ache from!!



TOXIC

+1!



The only thing I could add to such a great, bare-bones assessment of personal political choice is do not let anyone change your mind. It's your mind and you should only change to the views of others if you really feel that it's where your values lie. The best part about our system of democracy is that cheap little curtain (or mini-cubicle) allowing our personal choice to be the only influence immediately before pressing the "cast ballot" button. IMHO

 

[Greg Meyer]

Sarah Palin objects to wasteful spending... she did not support the construction of a $400,000,000.00 bridge to a virtually uninhabited island. That she applied for and obtained for her city... the one where she was the Mayor... money for a homeless shelter, healthcare facility, bus and transportation projects that were legitimate needs is not opposite of her stated position. She said she opposed wasteful earmaks. That earmarks exist as a system is also objectionable. There are better ways to funnel money than through legislator's discretion... (ie political favors can be curried or given). But, that is the system in place. So, as long as it is in place, that is the way that local communities get federal money for legitimate projects. If you had a sophisticated understanding of the system you might understand a nuanced sophisticated response to that system.



And, as far as the Independence Party. There is no record of her ever being a member (that's in the article you link to...) So, as the Mayor, she paid a courtesy visit to a bunch of "conventioneers" who were visiting her town and spending their personal money... come on... That is just good public relations. If a Star Trek Convention had been held there and she visited would that make her an honorary Vulcan?



Find something with some substance, and we will all listen. But, so far I haven't seen a shred of anything worthy of note.



Maybe we should start making some contrasts with Obama's circle of friends... William Ayers, a man Obama has stated that he likes and admires... Also a man who is a self proclaimed domestic terrorist... an unrepentant one. (He admits to terrorists bombings and says his only regret is that they did not do enough). Jeremiah Wright... "I could no more disavow him..." so said Obama... Then he did... He didn't know about the sermons on the CD or the content of the Church's website... A little closer to meat than a Chamber of Commerce type appearance at a convention as a courtesy... Let's be consistent in our analysis and criticism... use the same criteria for both party's candidates... Either appearance and spin counts or it doesn't... Use sokme critical self analysis to determine if you are using the same microscope for both candidates.



Finally, let's talk about issues not innuendo. Obama, from his own mouth says he won't tax "us"... the middle class... He'll only tax businesses and corporations. So, if GM has a bigger tax bill where will that money come from... thin air or higher vehicle costs... Dividends and capital gains... begiining with people making $50,000.00 some 20-25% of them list dividend income. The proposed increase in social security tax will begin to affect anyone making over $104,000.00. In California and New York that is a mid career Fireman or Polic Officer... tell them that their income above that amount will cost them an additional 12.4% and see if they think that it's okay because they are "rich folks". And, all of you union members who have pension benefits... all of you people withy mutual funds in 401Ks... That increased "corporate tax"... that will come out before dividends are computed and paid... So., YOU will be paying that tax not the business... Or to get it... to maintain the dividends the company can just raise prices... Oh, wait, that price is only paid by the "rich"... there is a better, lower price, paid by the middle and lower classes... get real... WE pay the corporate taxes...



Voodooo economics and class warfare are the meat and potatoes really being offered by the Obama Tax Plan.

 

[Dale Hicks]

Quote from Mini: "I understand all that Rich. But you cannot deny that this was a calculated move to put a woman in the White House before the Dems."



Mini, did you feel the same about the Mondale/Ferraro ticket a few elections ago?



After reading all the early post of McCain, Obama, and Biden's "Flaws", I wish she(Palin) was running for President.

 

[Rich Stern]

Mini, she was chosen for all the things she is, and all the things she isn't.



Being good looking is certainly a political asset. The more uninformed the voters are, the more votes for a good looking candidate, when no other criteria are applied. But, for most Americans, that gets set aside.



On the other hand, she's got an excellent demographic (energy state) and philosophical match (willing to go against the grain) with McCain.

 

[Mini]

DH, still no answer? No I didnt feel that way because Mondale/Ferraro didnt have a chance (IMHO).



Rich I would assume you answer to be No based on your response. As I said I am not denying her ability to produce, ONCE AGAIN, it seems like a calculated move to get a good looker on his ticket for that lost Hillary vote. Thats it.



I am leaving this discussion. I dont normally get involved in the political discussions here (or anywhere else) but this move made me mad.

 

[Marty Klein]

Geez Rich, I think you over-estimate the voting abilities of most Americans. In each voting group, I would say without fear of being corrected by facts, that most voters pick something other than the issue--looks, race, gender, vet/non-vet, daughters who are unwed mothers, etc are all first line criteria.



Mini, I would think that a good looker could in no way replace the Hildebeast as a vote getter. Also, with the focus on his filandering, I would think picking a good looker would not be in his best interest. I can only conclude that she is not as good looking as we think. :wacko:

 

[Bill McElroy]

We'll know a lot more about her "capabilities, beliefs and values, and potential" after she gives her speech tonite!! I for one,..won't miss it!! I haven't heard her speak at length yet, but she seems to be gathering a lot of support from those who have dealt with her recently....that's good news for the ticket!



Anyone hear Fred Thompson's remarks about McCain's 96 yr. old mother??....He said,.."If the North Vietnamese would've captured HER,.......THEY would've surrendered!"..LOL!!:lol:

(She is a fiesty one.....i've seen interviews with her and she speaks her mind!! Like Mother, like Son!!)

 

[Dan J.]

Fred was great! I have to admit though, Joe Lieberman was also a great speaker from the "other" side of the aisle. The DNC tried like Hell to remove ol' Joe from the political scene for his non-conforming views. Man, did that bite them in the hiney!! He not only regained his seat as an independant, he chose to support a real ticket of change instead of more of the same ol' D.C. BS from the entrenched political machine that has absolutely no desire to change the way politics have gone for 60 years! Now he's no Zell Miller, but he is another liberal seeing the light!



That recognition of McCain's mother instantly made me wonder why people are ready to slam him for his age. If he gets asked about the worries some have about his ability to survive a term, he should tell them, "I don't know. Ask my Mom!" :lol::lol:

 

[Bill McElroy]

LOL.....got that right!! His Dad lived to be 70.....buried in Arlington.



A few ditties on his Dad...



Nickname: Smitty

Place of birth: Council Bluffs, Iowa

Place of death: Arlington, Virginia

Place of burial: Arlington National Cemetery

Allegiance: United States of America

Service/branch: United States Navy

Years of service: 1931-1972

Rank: Admiral

Commands held: U.S. Pacific Command

USS Gunnel

Battles/wars: World War II

Vietnam War

Awards: Navy Distinguished Service Medal

Silver Star

Legion of Merit

Bronze Star

Relations Adm. John S. McCain, Sr. (father)

Sen. John S. McCain III (son)

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

I can not believe no one has posted on her speach last night.



All I can say is that it was a well written speach and very well delivered.

 

[Bill McElroy]

She CRUSHED!!!....did you see that Obama fund raiser person try and rush the stage...the secret service was all over her like flies on poop. Gonna be an interesting race...

 

[Rich Stern]

Excellent speech, particularly with the crushing amount of pressure. She did very, very well.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Cannot believe the crap that comes out of the mouths of some of our politicians. Biden on Today (this morning), complaining basically that 'he didn't hear a single substantive thing in her speech'; 'and that basically she attacked us'.



What in the h**l did he think that the Dem's did all last week??? And of course, they have selective listening. And on Universal Healthcare, the DEMS have control of both houses, why don't they pass something. They have the votes - don't they . . . .



I have the calendar date circled, when the VP debate happens - Oct. 2nd at 8:00PM EDT. I'm leaving on vacation that day, but you can bet I'll be at my first stop in time to watch that.



Tex