Overdrive...

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JP Heintzman

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Gents, I read recently to turn the overdrive "off" when towing the boat with your truck. This increased my RPM by about 500, is this the trade off for less stress on the transmission? Insights appreciated, towing a 170TF with a 2005 F150, 5.4ltr, automatic tranny. Thanks.



JP
 
Everything that I've read, strongly recommends turning off the overdrive. I personally think that it has much to do with the 'cooling of the transmission' with the added weight/drag. If left in overdrive, lower rpms and I have also found that it strains to adequately mainatin speed while towing (in overdrive).



Tex
 
This depends entirely on your setup, boat and truck. While driving at highway speeds you must make sure your transmission isn't "hunting" for a gear. This is when you truck switches in and out of overdrive looking for the powerband. This is where the heat generated can fry your trany. I tow my rig with OD off until I reach my crusing speed and then I switch it on. On my truck, a Ford with the 4.0, overdrive kicks in exactly at 50 miles an hour under normal driving conditions. While towing at 70 MPH I run 2400 RPMs, while not towing under the same conditions I run 2500 RPMS, both of these specs are taken when OD is engauged. Overdrive differs from TOW/HAUL mode, something many people confuse. Overdrive does't affect anyother gear, meaning if you dis-engauge OD your truck will run exactly the same except that it won't switch into OD. While the TOW/HAUL change the switch points and downshifts of each gear. When in doubt take off the the OD, the only down side to turning off OD is slightly less gas mileage.

You have one beast of a truck, if I where you I would probably tow with OD on, If I was you, I would practice the same measures that I do. I can only speak on my experiences and from what I have been told by people, whom are trustworthy. I feel that with a truck of your size, one that can tow over 7,500 lbs should laugh at the fact of towing a trailer that weighs much less that 3000 lbs. These are just my opinions and should be taken with a gain of salt as I am certainly not an expert, I look forward to hearing others advice on this.

CHRIS CAS
 
You must be loaded up with gear or water, cause I got the very same rig (2004 F150) and I've got to look in the mirror to make sure the boats still there, you can't even fell the load at all, except maybe acceleration from a dead stop.I drag mine 20 miles each way 3 times a week.
 
First, if you are unsure, get a tranny temp gage. Heat kills a tranny. My 3/4 ton Chevy has tow/haul not OD on/off, Chris is spot on with his explination. I put the tow/haul on every time I hook up the boat. In order to turn off my OD, I would have to switch down to "3". I have a good friend who owns a transmission shop and he told me point blank that does nothing for my tranny except burn more gas and run at a higher rpm. He said to bring it to him every 30-40,000 miles and he will drop the pan and replace the fluid (with synthetic). The gage will tell you what you are doing good or bad. I will tell you this, they heat up quick and cool off very slow!! I look at my gage all the time. If your truck is not equipped with a aux. tranny cooler, get one and get the biggest one made.



TOXIC
 
Ok all, here is my 2 cents worth. First off note one thing, the over drive clutch in any auto trans is the smallest clutch pack in it. I would second the "hunting" comment, but on top of that, the reason most overdrives fail in a trans is heat, when in overdrive, the pump can not and does not move as much fluid thru the cooler, and adding the extra weight does create more heat, so with less fluid volume it will just build heat as it goes on, the temp gauge is a valuable asset for any auto trans. I used to tow with a Yukon, and i also felt if I kept it from hunting it would not fail...........BAD thought there, cost me dearly twice, and the final answer I got was the lower RPMs and fluid movement. Also note, the torque converters on most gas rigs only locks up late in the pattern, and most will unlock anytime there is to much of a request for throttle, and if you want to see a trans heat up, drive it with the converter unlocked....very bad, and that is what will happen towing in OD most often. picking the foot off the throttle, or brake appication will unlock it. I now tow the fifth wheel camper, and my 911CDX behind that with a Duramax with the Allison trans, 6 speed, when pulling just the boat, I can tow in 6th, which is double overdrive, temp never goes over 150, when trippled up, I use 5th gear, and never goes above 170, unless dam hot out side, then 180, also note on the lock up converter, the Alison locks up in sedond or third, and does not unlock until back in that lower gear. Guys, with gas rigs and large boats, do NOT use OD, the manual will likely tell you that also, a little less mileage is a whole lot better than 2 g or more for a trans repair......the tow button does jsut like noted before, it changes shift points on the up shift, to keep the engine more in the peak torque band longer, and with some, is also moves the downshifts up, to help with braking, but that is mostly with the diesel, along with the coverter staying locked up helps the braking.

Oh by the way, what do I do for a living......I am a service manager for a Detroit Diesel engine distributor, oh and an Allison trans distributor also. SO in the last 5 years there, I have learned a fair bit about auto trans problems. Sorry for the long post, but I felt the info was needed for you all to understand where the issues develop for these products.
 
gofish,



Is that for both Furd and Chebby? I know I am the exception to the rule of gassers with a 3/4 ton HD and 4.10 gearing but my tranny guy said that unless I towing a bulldozer, leave it in drive with the tow/haul engaged.



TOXIC
 
Toxic, what boat you hauling? alum or glass, what engine, and what does your owners manual tell you?

 
Tells me to put the tow/haul on. My buddy at the tranny shop laughs because he says I don't really even need to do that. Truck has never hunted for gears or excessively downshifted, even in the mountains. I haul a big 929 with a 225efi, tandem trailer w/brakes. Tranny never gets past 180.



 
Well toxic, there is one other thing to consider, how long you keeping the vehicle..........normally will not have any issues for 50-80000 miles, then it will get you, i know from experience what it costs, and the first time it happened to me i was enroute to a BASS divisional tournament, happened 6 hours from home.....and like i said, and do beleive from personal experience, being a mechanic by trade, and beleiving since i did not let it hunt, no damage was occuring, and wham it hit me.........along with the fact that the OD clutch pack is the smallest........and i see it every day in my shop to not do it............
 
I have been told by someone who i trust that has rebuilt tranny's for over 30 years pretty much the same thing that gofish said when i asked him about it when i got my first auto for towing years ago. His short answer was if you want to see me to spend some $$ tow in overdrive. He also reminded me there was a time when overdrive didnt exist and peole towed with them just fine.



So I tow with overdrive off and pretty much always have. I currently have a 1500 chevy 5.3l 4x4 and ih has a pretty tall 3.42 gear in it. I had two choices 3.42 or 4.10 when i bought it. I went with the 3.42 to keep the rpm down on the freeway since thats where i do most of my towing. In third towing my z7 i run ~2400 rpm at 65 and it never bogs on hills or downshifts or anything. Ive yanked a 6000# boat with it as well many times and it tows that fine too.





 
Not disagreeing but if Chevy knows that OD towing kills a tranny then why don't they have a way to lock it out? Especially on a truck like mine designed to tow. I know on the oil burners/Allison trannys they don't even suggest engaging the tow/haul unless you are over a certain poundage towing. CIII runs the Duramax/Ally combo and if he switches off on the tow/haul, he gets grade braking, etc., as a note he tows in OD...no tow/haul for the most part. I guess if my tranny was slipping or overly wearing the 4th gear clutch pack, my temp gage would show it right? I'm right at 75k right now, let's see if I make your 80k mark!!:lol:



TOXIC
 
Toxic, they do its called third gear.....



I would think if you were overheating or slipping the tranny you would see it for sure. you have a really low gear in your truck and a really heavy duty tranny and it looks like its been able to take it. If you had a 1500 like mine with the smaller tranny it may not. Mine hunts way too much in od when theres a load on it, the slightest grade and its shifting. My old dodge with 3.92 gears in it was worse. A good friend of mine installed a temp guage in his half ton and after the first trip towing his tin boat he never used OD again. he was heating that thing up to well over 240 on small grades. Popping it back into third and he ran 180 all the time.
 
I use 3rd gear on two lane and hills. T/H on flat highway.
 
Makes sense Jimbo. I know my truck is HD all the way around, bigger tranny, lower gearing, just set up to pull. I still don't like the fact that you have to drop to 3rd gear just to tow? I mean c'mon, we have 5 & 6 speed 1/2 ton trucks now, what do you do with them? You buy a truck to haul or tow, if these activities require 3rd gear towing then it outta be stated somewhere. My manual says I don't even need to engage tow/haul unless I am at 75% of my trucks towing capacity (if I remember correctly).



TOXIC
 
That is correct Tox BUT, if you've ever had a GM tranny rebuilt...you'd see how weak they really are...maybe not yours since it's a 4L80E instead of the 4L60E.

Weak Sunshells are among the biggest things that go boom in the GM's....been thru 2 myself before the tranny shop got it right.

And if you ever have to have one rebuilt...you'd better use aftermarket parts or you'll be doing it again.
 
Tox, in a 5 or 6 speed i would pick whatever gear is 1-1 and go. My manual says its fine to to in OD as long as the transmition isnt shifting too much. I feel like mine shifts too much so in 3rd it goes.



I like the way my truck tows in 3rd. The rpm's are just right at 65 so its right in the meat of the powerbandand it will climb seemingly anything. Gas mileage is good too.
 
Tox,



My truck has the same tranny as yours (4L80E, but i have 3.73 gears) and a few weeks ago at 147,000 miles it puked out reverse when I was 1.5 hours away from home. I was about 5 hours away that day and it was running fine. Tranny temp gauge was reading fine (less than 150*F) until I got off of the highway from doing 70mph. Temp gauge went up towards the red line. I pulled over and checked things out. Tranny fluid was black. I went to back out and no reverse. Had forward gears so I drove home in 3rd gear and kept speed at 50 to 55mph. Tranny gave no indication of slipping or anything before heating up. I had a Jasper Engines remanufactured tranny put in a week ago.



I thought the same thing as you...6.0L engine, 4L80E tranny, big 4 wheel disc brakes....truck should tow like a raped ape. Up till now, mine has!!!



I usually tow my boat in 3rd gear and Tow/Haul mode on if not on flat roads. I don't usually keep my trucks this long.....but that's another story!!
 
Tox,



Yep,,,,but I wasn't towing when it crapped out. I was just out for a day trip, ~400 miles. I've had the tranny fluid, filter and transfer case fluid changed around 30,000 miles by the dealer when they repaired a valve in the tranny. Then had the tranny fluid, filter, transfer case fluid, both axles fluid and all brake pads and rotors replaced at 100,000 miles. I thought I was good to go until 150,000 miles!!! The fluid and filter are do to be replaced after 5,000 miles per the Jasper warranty. I'm thinking of getting it done every 25,000 now. I wish the truck would have been designed with a spin-on filter for the tranny, would make it a lot easier.



Maybe I shouldn't drive it like I stole it.....more like it's paid for and I need it to last a few more years!!! :rolleyes:
 
Well boys, I have all ways pulled my boats in OD. MY 04 GMC 5.3 / 3.73 gear put 160,000 miles on her ran great. The truck I have now is a 08 chev 5.3 / 3.73 60,000 miles and runs great. I have plowed snow every winter with both trucks. Trans temp is 180 -190 when towing 150 when not. I have a trans service done once a year 36-40,000 per year and so far I so good. The boat we pull is a Nitro 929, we put about 2500 miles a year on it.

I believe if you take care of your stuff it will take care of you. I have towed with the t/h on and off and it makes no difference in temp,but ti does take the shift points up.



CJ
 
Took care of ALL of mine and changed fluid yearly....didn't matter.

Check and see how many go boom:wacko:
 
Check the veh. cap. tag inside the driver's door. If your ttl. pkg. is under the sticker total, drive as normal. If its over, use tow/haul. As far as overdrive, if your hunting back and forth excessively (i.e.: hill country) or your tranny temp starts climbing without falling, take it out of OD. I've used this on a number of GM platforms since '95 and haven't had any tranny issues. This info was shared with me by my Dealer tranny tech and an independant tranny rebuilder. FWIW
 
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