Ethanol!!!!

[Rob LaMoy]

Well I figured I had a few minutes, lets stir up some trouble.

As I'm sure you all know ethanol is absolute garbage! Here in NY we cannot even buy gas without it any longer......anywhere! I am about to start towing over to marinas in VT to fill truck and boat.

In my boat I went from 66 mph top end with straight gas to 63 mph now with E10 gas. Gee that's 5% decrease in speed? In my Honda Civic I went from 37-38 mpg down to 33-34 mpg. Huh....about a 10% loss in mileage and what's the ethanol content????10% what a coincidence! And now they are proposing to go to 15% as a national standard.

I don't care what politicians or sales reps tell you, you do NOT get as hot or effecient a burn from ethanol as you do straight petro. Besides, what rocket scientist came up with the brilliant idea to mix a WATER based grain alcohol with petroleum???? Helllloooo water and oil don't mix!

And just wait and see what that ethanol/water is doing to your piston rings, valves, lifters, bearings, cam shafts, etc, etc. And those of us in the marine industry are going to see it most of all. The MMA (no not mixed martial arts) Marine Manufacturers Assoc. is the only thing really fighting this move.

We all need to let our ELECTED officials know that we do NOT support ethanol and in fact want it gone out of our fuel period. At least offer us a regular alternative for our boats and so on. An "off road" use if you will! We are the only country burning a fuel source right now. And with the loss of mileage and damage it does to engines says they aren't really concerned with environmental issues so much as lining their pockets.



So please....write, call, do whatever you can to tell these nimrods we don't want this crap any more.



In the mean time. I use Startron or Starbrite (something like that) enzyme treatment for ethanol. You can get it at Wal-Mart in the marine isle or most auto stores. I used to use Sta-Bil, the green ethanol fighting type but found the Startron stuff works a little better and longer. It's about $9 a bottle that will treat 50 gallons, so basically I have to add a bottle to every fill up in the boat, but it's worth it. Without it, almost everything I run, runs like crap.

I run it in EVERYTHING I own, truck, car, boat, 4 - wheeler, snow machine, chainsaws, wood splitter, etc. So I use a LOT of it. I should contact them about a sponsorship! LOL



OK, my rant is done now, but please stand up and be heard folks, before they destroy all our toys!:angry:

 

[Gary R]

According to this website pure gas is available in NY at these locations.
http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY

 

[chuck nelson]

How did the Statron work better?

 

[Berry Lindley]

Rob, at 10% ethanol there is about a 3% loss of energy. If you are seeing 10% you may have another issue with your car. On the engines, my Merc 90 does run better on ethanol free gas.....One thing is for sure, trading corn for bad fuel is not a good deal....

 

[Rob LaMoy]

GRR...none are anywhere near me! Figures.

Fishfool, both work, but the Startron gives me a little better burn aka, more top end and better mpg. And you can hear the way the engines idle better. Definately, the Sta-Bil is better than nothing, but I have seen gas that is 2 yrs old when treated with the Startron stuff turn bright and clear overnight. You can definately see the fuel water/fuel seperation if you don't use these products.



Berry, I would venture to say that 3% energy loss is a figure fed to us by some politician that is lining his/her pocket with corn money. And ANY energy loss during burn COMPLETELY negates the EPA's whole "It's for the environment" argument for ethanol. We burn even more of it to complete the same task and it destroys vehicles and if you look at the hard and soft costs when it comes to energy use for manufacturing a big block engine or outboard, ethanol is costing us more economically and environmentally than anyone has dared to even guess at.



"People of integrity expect to be believed. And when they're not, they let time prove them right"!!!

Favorite saying of mine. I started saying it about ethanol at the beginning and before Obama got elected and it's been spot on! Both ethanol and Obama continue to prove me (and my right wing, conservative, Christian, middle classmen) right over and over again.

 

[Berry Lindley]

I've done a fair amount of reading on this. Don't take me wrong, I do not like the stuff . The 3% less is because straight ethanol has about 30% less net energy than 100% gasoline, and you can do the math yourself at whatever concentration you want. So when/if you do find a station with full gas for your car you can pay about 3% more vs 10% ethanol and are even cost-wise.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I buy my fuel at the marina. Has stabilizers added and is non corn. I pay more but in the long run it is better for my mota. Pay now or pat later.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

I would gladly pay $.50 more per gallon for straight fuel and avoid all the ethanol issues. However, politicians in NY don't even give us that option. Apparently, it is illegal to have non-ethanol gas in NY now unless it's a marina and even the marinas I have gone to have ethanol. It's all just a scam!

I'm glad my EFI isn't picky about what it eats, it just eats a LOT! But friends that are running HPDIs are having lots of problems with alarms and fuel/water seperators. Don't know about the E-tecs but I can't imagine they run so great on corn either.

 

[Berry Lindley]

In NY I'm not surprised.....I do have 2 places where I can get full gas. Am fortunate....I buy fuel by price/calculations, full gas for the Merc. I have not had any issues with ethanol when I'm in a pinch, absolutely keep the marine Stabil in there to protect from phase separation.

 

[edward hughes2]

I repowered my old 2001 NX750 with an Etec 115 hp,motor came with 7 yr warranty,2 months out of fact.warranty burnt a piston,evenrude did not know me,did not want to talk to me,Fpc,the extended warranty co.sent an adjuster to view my motor,he looked for about 30 seconds,sniffed a couple of parts,decided the problem was fuel related,cost me near 4000 dollars to repair that piece of dung,not really saying Etecs are junk,but you wont get much help from evenrude if you have a problem,and the Etecs,no matter all the hype.are not as strong as an optimax,it was alot quieter though,for whatever thats worth,iguess what im saying is,i dont recommend Etecs,not because of the product,but the lack of factory support,no more Etecs for me.

 

[Mini]

Dont forget to change out your fuel lines too rob! Ethenol is eating them up (the silver Merc line from your bulb to your engine. If it has red letters on it, its toast. You need the one with Blue letters.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Here is another side of the Ethanol vs Non-Ethanol problem. There is little to NO demand for it in quantity. Trusting that you are getting Non-Ethanol treated gasoline is a pipe dream.



Far too many stories about testing of Ethanol free gas only to find that it has Ethanol in it. Several sites that are interesting. The main site (listed in the clickable link) is for stations that are supposed to have ethanol free gas. I'm certain this is not official nor really monitored or up-to-date, but a start none the less.



The second, is a site that lists the legal requirements by state for labeling. Note, not all states require labeling.



http://www.fuel-testers.com/state_guide_ethanol_laws.html



In short, DO NOT TRUST what you are being told. Test early, test often if you are supposed to be getting Ethanol Free Fuel.



Tex
http://www.pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX

 

[Texas Transplant]

This is a good article, on the pressures dealers are facing.



Tex
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2010/05/26/gas-station-owners-being-required-use-ethanol/

 

[Mini]

in 20 years we will finally find out why they are shoving it down our throats...



this is as big of a scam as Al Gore and Global Warming.

 

[Jim B]

"Dont forget to change out your fuel lines too rob! Ethenol is eating them up (the silver Merc line from your bulb to your engine. If it has red letters on it, its toast. You need the one with Blue letters."



Yep to that, i just had mine changed last year. Only two years old and it was already gumming up badly.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Good reminder(s) on the fuel lines. Guess that is something that I should look at also.



Tex

 

[shane mccormick]

seafoam babay...

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Thanks Mini, didn't even know that one. You probably just saved me a frustrating day at the launch.

I had at least 3 times this past year when I could barely get my engine to start. I am 99% sure it is because I had let it sit for a few wks (rare for me during season) and the ethanol had gummed everything up. Once I finally got it going, it cleaned itself out and was good to go.



Had to have the cat conv, on my Aunt's Hyundai replaced because of ethanol. Dealer said it's very common right now. They are plugging up left and right. Luckily it was under warranty! And if they do go to E-15, it will put the already hurting marine industry out of the game.



Everyone wanted "Change".....they got it. And I'm not saying Bush wouldn't have rode the ethanol train too but the fact that I'm paying $4 per gallon for absolute junk really tweaks me:angry:

 

[Rob LaMoy]

oops

 

[Jim B]

"Everyone wanted "Change".....they got it. And I'm not saying Bush wouldn't have rode the ethanol train too but the fact that I'm paying $4 per gallon for absolute junk really tweaks me"



Rob, i don't want to turn this thread political but you cant blame E10 on Obama(not that i'm a fan of his at all). The E10 wheels were put into motion long before he ever was elected into office. The EPA put plans into place back in 2000 to phase out the MBTE stuff and put the Ethanol in. I guess if we have to blame a president for it we can blame Clinton( and i fully support that) for this crap. We have been dealing with it here in Mass for over 5 years now, i still think it sucks but i have to deal with it.



The issues this stuff has caused is nuts. Not just for us but even the Gas station owners have had issues. A friend of mine owns a few gas stations and one of his had a lining in the fiberglass tanks that the E10 turned into goo in like two tankloads. The tanks were only like 5 years old when he had to have them replaced because of it. Its something he never saw coming since he bought the station with those tanks already installed. It cost him a truckload of cash and three months closed to fix that and his filter maint and other pump maint has quadrupled since the switchover. It makes his already low 6 cent profit margin on fuel even worse.

 

[Dan J.]

This is not a "tin foil hat" warning, but the ethanol conspiracy runs deep, much like the trough a handful of politicians and one mega-corp feeds from. It can be summed up in three letters, A - D - M. ADM has been lubing us up for this shafting going back many years. I've attached one fairly current article addressing E10 and E15, but feel free to Google "ADM ethanol" and be prepared to read until your eyes bleed and your blood boils. This could possibly be the largest boondoggle in American history and it's so entrenched and widespread that I honestly don't see how it can ever be stopped. :angry:
http://247wallst.com/2010/05/04/as-demand-for-ethanol-grows-adm-and-valero-will-reap-the-benefits/

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Easy Dan, we stop it at the polls! We need to start electing people that remember they are ELECTED! Crooked politicians are to blame for this ethanol mess. It will truly take some work to undo the damage, but it is entirely possible.



Jim, I know it's not Obama's doing, but he is so good at blaming Bush for EVERYTHING, I figure I can return the favor!