2001 vs. 2000 TV-18s (6 photos will load)

[Mark Hofman]

Andy, Smitty, and other TV-18 owners. We've been having this discussion about the changes made to 2001 and 2002 model Tournament V1-8s, compared to the 2000 and earlier models.



Andy was kind enough to snap some pictures of his 1999 TV-18, and I've taken three photos showing the same view of my 2001. I hope this will illustrate how Tracker Marine has adjusted the design of the transom to handle the weight of a 150.



Six photos will follow, some with comments.

 

[Mark Hofman]

This is the straight on shot of Andy's transom.

 

[Mark Hofman]

Now, compare his transom to one on a 2001 model. The red arrows show ADDITIONAL through bolts that are not on the pre-2001 models.

 

[Mark Hofman]

The next two photos will compare the stern corner caps as seen from the back of the boat. On the pre-2001 models (2000,1999,1998,etc.) the corner cap is a separate piece of aluminum that is rivited in place. Below that is a shot of a 2001 stern corner cap. It is initially set in place with screws, but then welded to both the transom and the side panel of the boat.

 

[Mark Hofman]

 

[Mark Hofman]

Here are two comparative shots showing the same corner cap, this time looking down from the top. One of the things I noticed when I was editing these pictures is how much larger the corner cap is on the 2001 boat. The reference point for comparison is the Perko stern nav light base. They didn't relocate that base between the 2000 and 2001 model years.

 

[Mark Hofman]

 

[Mark Hofman]

I'm having trouble loading the 2001 photo for some reason. Rich, the pictures are on my personal web server, not yours. Did you end up placing a limit on posting because of your SQL server issues? I don't want to upload the last picture to my member library because I know it takes up space on your server.



Heck, this message may not even post.



And if there are multiple posts of the sixth picture, could you remove them from your end? Thanks!

 

[Mark Hofman]

I'm going to try uplinking that sixth picture one more time, since it accepted my last post.

 

[Marke Cicero]

Hey Mo,



Nice job!! Looking at pics 3 & 4 made me wonder....Where does Andy's bilge pump discharge?? On the side?



Marke

 

[Bruce Yeaton]

On the 2000 models, the bilge is discharged from the bottom of the boat, next to the livewell intake and drain



Good Job Mo, nice to see a difference in the years. The 2001 looks much stronger!!!

 

[Rich Mellon]

Nice work! I find this site refreshing compared to WC where there would have been all kinds of flaming over this topic. Most of the people would have missed the fact that Tracker is commited to improving their boat lines. I drove the entire Tracker Marine Group line at Table Rock in August during the media conference and the whole line has taken a big jump forward! As someone who fished the PWT for 5 years and has owned most of the brands out there I'm so tired of some boat owners attitudes!

Rich
http://www.theoutdoorquest.com/

 

[Mark Hofman]

Thanks, Rich. Yeah, I'll bet if some of the guys from BFHP or other boat boards were to come here, they'd be surprised at how informative, helpful and fun this place can be. Rich Stern deserves a lot of credit for setting the tone, backed up by folks who are willing to just stomp on anyone who doesn't play by the rules.



On the topic at hand, I did reach inside the boat with my digital camera and take some "inside" photos of the transom construction. Boy was that enlightening. Not only could I see how things are put together, but I could see why transom failure has been a problem with the heavier motors. There are a couple of additional, inexpensive changes Tracker could make to the interior structure that would make all the difference in the world.



If any of you fellow TV-18 owners want to see how the inside of the boat is put together, let me know and I can email pictures of the hull interior, bracing and bulkheads.

 

[Andrew Zuber]

Great comparison MO!



I have a friend who welds and I think I'm gonna see if he can weld my corner caps down...I noticed that one is loose.



One thing on the bilge discharge...my boat is a 2000...The bilge discharges on the starboard side right below the corner cap...



az

 

[Mark Hofman]

Andy, let me see if I'm picturing this correctly. Your bilge outlet is on the actual starboard SIDE of the boat instead of on the starboard side OF THE TRANSOM, right?



And the opening is just below the stern corner cap?



So Tracker just moved it around the corner to the back of the boat.

 

[Andrew Zuber]

Yep...

You got it exactly...

It's maybe 3 inches or so below the cap on the SIDE of the boat..



az

 

[Nick De Marzio2]

THIS IS VERY INFORMATIVE. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE ALL PHOTOS AND I WOULD APPRECIATE AN E-MAIL TO ME WITH THE PHOTOS. HOW DOES THE FRONT END LOOK, IS IT CAVING IN? MY BOAT IS AT THE FACTORY BUT HAVE NOT HEARD ANYTHING FROM THEM. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK , THIS WEB SITE IS SUPER FOR TRACKER OWNERS. IT WOULD ALSO BE NICE IF YOU COULD E-MAIL ALL THE TV18 OWNERS WITH THIS "ALERT" AT ONE TIME.

 

[Mark Hofman]

Nick, what do you mean by 'caving in'? Are you talking about how the cross-member braces look like they are putting "reverse" dents in the surface of the hull skin?

 

[Nick De Marzio2]

I BELIEVE WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING MAY BE TRUE. MY FRONT END WAS SMOOTH AND SINCE I PUT THE 150 ON IT IS INDENTED BOTH SIDES OF THE KEEL FROM HITTING THE WAVES? YOU ALSO CAN SEE THE BRACE MEMBERS OUTLINES ON THE SKIN.

 

[Mark Hofman]

Nick, if you ever get a chance to look at a new, unused TV-18 at a dealership, look for those same dents.



It's ugly, but I'm convinced they come from the factory looking like that. It's hard to notice them unless the light hits them just right, and on the sides of the boat painted black they're hardly noticable at all. I only see them in the silver sections of the side and along the bottom of the boat.



When I was doing my research and looking at different boats, I noticed these little line-dents in all of the welded boats I saw. They were noticable in the Crestliner CVX-18 as well as the TV-18. In fact, I even asked a BPS salesperson about these dents. I don't think they are caused by hitting the waves.



Here's another reason why I don't think your bow is caving in. When I did the "Locks N Lids" project, I had to cut a 2" hole through the rock locker and main storage bin lids (look in the Grab Bag for pictures). The aluminum that is used on the TV-18s is .100 gauge aluminum. I learned that the stuff is a little thicker than a QUARTER! (Take a quarter out of your pocket and try bending it.)



These dents in the side of the boat could only be caused by the heating and cooling of the welding process.



I guess all I'm saying is that, while they are cosmetically unappealing, I don't think they are a sign of structural weakness.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Nick, had the same problem with my Super-guide. You may have to see a shop about putting braces between the stringers to keep that from happening. Make sense? The extra MPH and HP when hitting waves push the metal right into the cavities between braces. Mine used to push in, then pop out, you could here it runing down the lake. Pop, POP POP POP, then the flex like bending a coat hanger back and forth just snapped the metal in a long crack. My .02 says get it fixed before you find yourself stranded in the middle of the lake taking on more water than the bilge can pump out. Good luck

 

[Mark Hofman]

Here is the picture I was talking about above. That green tool on the side was used to apply 8 TONS of hydraulic pressure to cut through the aluminum. The two straight cuts through the "donut" of aluminum are the only places where the metal bent, and that was just from the hydraulic pressure. As the rest of the cutter blade sliced the circle through the aluminum, the metal didn't bend at all.



I'm tellin' ya. It's tough stuff.

 

[Nick De Marzio2]

MY SON HAD A TV171988 AND HIS DID CAVE IN AND STAYED THAT WAY, OF COARSE IT WAS RIVITED AND THE RIVETS STARTED TO LEAK. PUT KEEL GUARD ACROSS BOTH SIDES OF THE KEEL WHERE THE RIVETS WERE AND IT STOPPED LEAKING AND ALSO PROTECTED THE KEEL. I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT THE BRACES BENT AND CAUSED THE SKIN TO INDENT.

 

[Mark Hofman]

Okay, so what I hear you saying is that the weakness was in the cross-bracing. Your first post about "caving in" I misread to mean that the outer hull skin was weak.



I've pounded my boat through three and four foot rollers, and more than a few big boat wakes. I haven't seen any deformation of the hull shape (yet).

 

[JEFF WHITE]

the stringers couldnt have bent,they are like c channels,except they are formed to the shape of the hull and are riveted to the hull,and have the floor screwed down to them.a formed part has more strength than a piece that is made out of individual pieces.



mine had the same thing as yours did nick,except the rivets were loose,and were updated to 1/4" from 3/16".after the rivets were replaced,the hull went back into shape.



as for the stringer system in the welded hulls,they look in my opinion,well only seen the 1st year avalanche,they look like they have 3-4" of welds on the system,which is more than adequate in my opinion.if what i have read is true about the construction of the hull/stringer system being pressed into and welded in place under pressuer,there shouldnt be no gaps if,and only if the hull mold is right on,not worn,or the operator didnt do a boo-boo.the computer running the system has a set of parameters it has to follow,hydraulic force is used to press the flat sheet over a set of dies,one positive,1 reverse.the puter tells when its done.



now the stringers,im not sure if they are hand jig welded,or robotic welded,but if jig welded they are the same each time they are built.the pieces are precut and put in the jig and welded up.this system is ridgid,this is added strength,salong with a place to mount your floor,which adds strength also.



adding a piece inbetween the stringers will give you some added strength,but now look at the work involved.removing foam,getting pieces either bent,fabricated,now the riveting/welding in of said pieces,welding involves tig welding,not mig,due to strength of the weld.

 

[Rich Mellon]

The avalanche and Tundra hulls are stretch formed from .125 metal. The process is fasinating and produce very neat boats. I've driven the 18 foot Ava and the 20 and 21 Tundra. Very smooth riding, responsive and fast. The Tundra 20 has a planning time of 2.8 seconds! The neat difference between these boats and comparable glass was distinct difference at mid range and above. Big glass boats don't respond to throttle fast in this range and these boats just jump to it!

Rich
http://www.theoutdoorquest.com

 

[Mark Hofman]

Thanks to Andy Z for providing the pictures of his boat so that I could do this comparison. Tracker Marine really is trying to address the shortcomings of its boats, and for those who are suffering problems because of the earlier design, I really believe that Tracker will do everything in its power to fix your boat correctly once it's back at the factory.



One more quick comparison. This is the bow cap on the 2000 TV-18 compared with the bow cap on the 2001 TV-18.

 

[Mark Hofman]

 

[Nick De Marzio2]

I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH TRACKER AND THEY STATED DEC. 3 WILL BE THE COMPLETION DATE OF THE REPAIR. I BELIEVE THAT WHEN THEY START GETTING INTO THE REPAIR THEY WILL FIND MORE THAN THEY BARGAINED FOR. I SURE HOPE THAT TRACKER WILL RESPOND TO THESE PROBLEMS WITH VIGOR. THIS TOPIC HAS REALLY SHED A LOT OF LIGHT ON THE PROBLEMS AT HAND---KEEP THE INFORMATION FLOWING.

 

[Nick De Marzio2]

THERE ARE TWO MORE PICTURES THAT SHOULD BE TAKEN:

1) THERE ARE TWO STRAKES ON THE BOTTOM OF THE HULL. ON MY BOAT THE PASSENGER SIDE STRAKE WELDS BROKE AND LEFT A 2 FOOT DANGLING PIECE OF ALUMINUM. I KEPT HEARING A CLANK, CLANK SOUND BUT COULD NOT LOCATE IT UNTIL I PUT IT ON THE TRAILER. THE DEALER CUT OFF THIS 2 FOOT PIECE SO THAT COULD KEEP THE BOAT RUNNING. INSPECTED THE DRIVER SIDE STRAKE WELDS AND THEY WERE CRACKING. THIS IS HOW EVERYTHING STARTED WITH MY BOAT. THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE 2000 AND 2001 WELDING PROCESS IS LONGER WELDS AND SHORTER DISTANCE BETWEEN WELDS. THE DEALER ATTEMPTED TO WELD BUT THEY BROKE AGAIN WHEN THE BOAT WAS FIRST TAKEN OUT AFTER THE REPAIR.



2) HAVE YOU LOOKED AT THE SEPARATION OF THE HULL SIDES TO THE DECK. I BELIEVE THERE IS A BRACE RUNNING FROM BEHIND THE SEATS ALL THE WAY ACROSS FROM ONE SIDE TO THE OTHER SO THAT THE HULL SIDES DO NOT FLEX. YOU SHOULD BE ABLE TO STAND ON THE TRAILER AND YANK ON THE SIDES OF THE HULL AND SEE NO SEPARATION.



NO, YOUR BOW LOOKS NICE AND SMOOTH WITH NO INDENTATIONS

 

[Nick De Marzio2]

DO YOU GUYS THINK THAT THE DEALERS ARE AWARE OF THESE DESIGN CHANGES AND WHEN YOU GO TO THEM FOR A MOTOR UPGRADE FROM A 90 TO A 150 THAT THEY WOULD TELL YOU THAT THE BOAT NEEDS MODIFICATIONS BEFORE WE CAN INSTALL IT AND THAT THE INSTALLATION INCLUDES THE MODIFICATIONS AT NO COST TO YOU?



WE NEED RECALL RIGHTS LIKE AUTOMOBILES!!!!

 

[Mark Hofman]

I can't speak for all Tracker dealerships, but I do know that when I was first considering the TV-18 and asked questions about adding a 150, Ken Neeley advised me not to do it. That was when the 2001 models were just coming out, and I was able to determine that changes had been made to the transom design.



Ken's group is very reputable. So are other dealerships.



As far as recall rights, there is a world of difference between the automobile industry and boat industry. But there certainly could be better information provided by boat companies about defects and warranty claims for certain types of problems. In the aviation world they use NOTAMs (Notices to Airmen). We could have NOTBO. Safety recommendations, model defect frequency, etc. The Coast Guard could be the source.



MO

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

And as a pilot you have airworthyness directives that instruct you and your mechanic on *Required* craft changes.



TOXIC

 

[Mark Hofman]

Yeah! The USCG could issue "seaworthiness directives" on boats where a defect is a hazard to life and limb!

 

[Mark Hofman]

Nick:



I did the "pull on the sides" test last night. There wasn't any separation that I could see. I also rolled around under the boat on a creeper and checked the strakes. The welds all look good. Thanks for the heads up.