You have got to see this....

  • Thread starter Greg Meyer [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xi
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Not enough stories or speeches like that get played for the world to see. Like was already said the only things that the media apparently likes to show is the negatives.



I am not an American. I am a proud Canadian, and I cannot think of any other neighbour that I would be as fortunate to have.



To all of your servicemen, Thank You.
 
Dang right corpsman! We all should be giving the media that "gesture"!:p
 
I'm going to look at whatever Greg posted but I first wanted just to say a BIG THANK YOU very much to scubasteve:cool:



Uncle Billy
 
Shewww! What a powerful film! It brought tears to my eyes.. I personally don't care what anyone thinks of Oliver North.. To me, he is a great American and Patriot and I would follow or just serve with him in any conflict where it was necessary. A lot of people, mostly liberals, don't like him because of the Sandinista crap and when Congress wanted him to become a rat, which they are so familiar with. In my opinion, and also the opinion of any combat serviceman I've talked to, especially Marines, Ollie made those Congressmen look like idiots! Just my opinion which can't be changed..They should have listened to him about Bin Laden also instead of laughing when he said that was the most dangerous man in the world.

As for our service men and women, I love and pray for each and every one of them every day..God bless them one and all!



Uncle Billy
 
Uncle Billy, when did "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States" become "I will bend and/or break the Constitution of the United States"?



I understand the goodwill toward Ollie North for being such a strong supporter of the troops. But if you get in the habit of giving people a pass after they've stomped all over the Constitution because you like the rest of their politics...don't complain when someone stomps on it in a way that offends you.
 
"The tree of liberty must from time to time be refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson



As with as much change we are enduring to the constitution at our detriment, it's sad to see American Heroes belittled for following orders from their CNC. In an abstract form, I guess it is a compliment in the highest regard since the freedom of speech that we are allowed to enjoy was paid for by the blood of such heroes in uniform (including so many of our members here), whether they busted the lip of a terrorist during capture or supplied covert support for Nicaragua against the socialist rebel Sandanistas. I can almost guarantee that the families of the hostages Lt. Col. North's actions freed from Lebanese terrorists hold a very high opinion of him. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion of Lt. Col. North, just stating my own. ;):D

 
There's nothing that the world's badguy's fear more than a US POTUS with Cahonies.....they KNEW Carter didn't have any,....and they knew Reagan would kick their asses!! So what happened on the day AFTER his innaguration?? ,..voila,....hostages freed!! It had NOTHING to do with Carter's year of "hugs & negotiations",..it was all about Reagan's willingness to quit talking and start punching! Qadaffi tried to flex his pects with Reagan and his "line in the sand" all he got was a couple fighter's blown to hell,...a brand new tent blown to hell and the French Embassy obliterated by an "errant missle"...ooops...sorry France!! Then,..Clinton launched a couple CM's into some slovakia country and passed on SEVERAL opp's to get BinLaden (the world's thug's were more concerned about protecting their wives and daughters from Clinton!!..LOL) They feared BOTH Bush's and Iraq and Hussein payed the ultimate price for calling their bluff. Now they (the Taliban, N.Korea) have no respect for Obama and will test him at every opportunity!! Obama's next 3 years will be full of instances where where he's going to get tested and he'll have to either be a political pacifist and tow the party line, or he's going to have to do what's necessary and put the country's BEST interests ahead of his own.....that will be the ultimate TEST!! I just hope he passes!!:blink:

 
Mac said:
Kinda like the current admin is doing??



Yes. The hypocrisy on display here is my motivation. It's the same poison we see in daily politics. "It's ok to do it as long as I get what I want."



Dan J. said:
As with as much change we are enduring to the constitution at our detriment, it's sad to see American Heroes belittled for following orders from their CNC.



The oath those heroes swear is to a document that embodies a set of principles, not a reinterpretation of those principles by the men and women in command above them.



Covert wars? Absolutely necessary.



Subverting the laws of the United States for particular political consideration? Not so much.
 
Rich,



I do not know if "we" will ever truly know the entire story with all of the details of Ollie North Frankly, I am sure that there are factors and considerations on both sides of the "story"...



I do know this... It would take a lot for me to discount/ignore that green suit in my personal assessment of the man. (That is just plain personal bias as a result of a common history) Finally, sometimes... not something you like or want to do... you have to not follow the rules... Been there and done that... would not want to have everything I did looked at in the light of day in a setting other than that moment...



And, that oath... to defend... means no matter the personal cost... I would still fall into the category of ready to defend ... against all enemies ... foreign and domestic... even if "defend" meant outside the sanctioned box...



If, as I saw it, my country needed me to sacrifice it all... even my personal beliefs and integrity... in a situation (as remote and actually probably unrealistic as it could ever be) where it was "the only way" to serve my oath to defend my country... There is nothing to discuss... Any conflict between... "Duty, Honor, Corps, Country" has to be resolved in favor of "Country"... There is no other way to honor the sacrifices of others and protect the future



I hope anything that Ollie ever did was from that shared ethos...



End of my rant... sorry.
 
Greg, I understand and respect the solidarity you feel with the man. I realize you share a profound bond with him which outsiders have trouble understanding.



If you can set that aside for a moment, and consider the acts undertaken in the mid-1980s without regard to uniform: Paying terrorists with arms to gain the release of hostages. Secretly funding a covert war with some of the proceeds of that transaction, in order to subvert an act of Congress. And then the cover up, which involved destroying evidence, lying to investigators and the Congress.



In regard to the chain of command...how solid is it when the Commander-in-Chief has to go on TV and say this to the American people:



"A few months ago I told the American people I did not trade arms for hostages. My heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true, but the facts and the evidence tell me it is not. As the Tower board reported, what began as a strategic opening to Iran deteriorated, in its implementation, into trading arms for hostages. This runs counter to my own beliefs, to administration policy, and to the original strategy we had in mind." --Ronald Reagan



Ollie North went off the reservation. Way off. He was the primary architect of the changes that took this plan from "questionable" to "downright illegal." I know the overlap of politics, intelligence and military matters is a gray area where it's easy to blur the distinctions of right and wrong. And North has done a masterful job of fighting a personal public relations war to rebuild his image and gain popularity with conservatives in our society. But, again, I stress the point: You better be really careful what type of behavior you forgive from members of your own "team," if you want to hold the other "team" accountable, too.

 
Rich, and others...



As I said, "I do not know if "we" will ever truly know the entire story with all of the details of Ollie North Frankly, I am sure that there are factors and considerations on both sides of the "story"..."



Was Col. North "Freelancing" or was he following orders? I am of the opinion he was not freelancing. Enough said...



Here's a website that is at least a stated attempt to set out facts... I stand by my faith that my fellow Marine did what he, in his heart, believed was necessary to defend his country and his President...




http://www-personal.arts.usyd.edu.au/sterobrt/hsty3080/3rdYr3080/IranContra/Design/Index2.htm
 
Ok, feel I need to weigh in some here.



I, (name), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.



This is the USMC enlisted oath.



In times of crisis things can get blurred due to the pressures of the moment and the ability to be able to craft a coherent thought process can be impared at the time and the ramifications of your actions can not be made or maybe assed to the fullest. In times of crisis, you make a decision; right, wrong or indefferent, but you must make a decision. The decision made, is made in the thought that you are doing the right thing, with the best information you have at the time. That is the best you can do.



As Greg said, we will never know the true story here and the one that knows his side is not talking and some of the others have passed one. My opinion is that the LtCol did what he felt was right for our Nation, with the guidance/direction from his Orders, with the information he had on hand.



But, then again, I guess Hitler thought he was doing the right thing too???



Semper Fi



Carlos
 

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