Here we go!!

[Bill McElroy]

It's starting!!.....Look out!!...LOL:blink:

(Taken from BassFan today!!)



PAA meets with FLW 10/5/2005

Members of the Professional Anglers Association (PAA) met last night with FLW Outdoors chairman Irwin Jacobs, as well as other FLW Outdoors representatives. The PAA issued the following statement to BassFan about that meeting:



"We the PAA believe there is going to be an alternative to those who are looking for an alternative to BASS next year. More details to follow this announcement in 2 to 3 weeks."



Although the PAA has made clear its intentions to stage its own tournaments next year, the above statement indicates that FLW Outdoors may expand opportunities for tour-level pros in 2006. No other information is available at this time.

 

[Steve Hutson]

WOW!!!

 

[TrepMan]

OK for someone who has not kept up with this, what is PAA?

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Pro Angler's Assoc.

What will this mean for you Mac? Will pro's like KVD really take the highway?

 

[TrepMan]

Tee - so is that a new fishing group like FLW and BASS? or is it a union? or just a way the pro's got organized (non union) to deal with the tours/companies as a body???

 

[TOMMY RICH]

My understanding is it's a group consisting mostly of BASS pro's....what their job really is I don't know:blink:

 

[Jim B]

Trep, Gene Ellison the guy who is currently running the PAA is a good friend of mine. From what he tells me its not a "union" so to speak but more liek you said an organized body to give the anglers a unified voice to the different tours etc.

 

[Bill McElroy]

TEE,....it doesn't mean anything for me,..I'm not a member of the PAA. What it does mean to the Pro's and to BASS/ESPN is this:... The Pro's aren't happy with the direction BASS is taking and they're serious about wanting revisions to BASS/ESPN's direction....and they want them NOW...OR,..they'll form their own trail and/or take the fork in the road and go fish the FLW.



IMO,..BASS is going to take it on the chin in 2006...they're biting the hands that feed them and they're going to lose BIG this time around....they won't even come close to filling the ELITE field and they will embarrass themselves royally.not to mention P-O'ing all of their sponsors in the process.



I had some good conversations up north this past weekend,...and I won't post any of their comments here,...but I'll say this.....It's NOT looking good for BASS as far as Pro participation in 2006.....they can't afford it!! $100,000 just to get in the game is ridiculous!!



We'll have to watch and see...

Mac

 

[TOMMY RICH]

When I heard some of those numbers that Ol'Stoney himself was trying to justify on BassCenter...I about croaked and told my wife right then and there that this one is gonna' hurt bigtime. $100 K won't even pay for gas will it?:wacko:

 

[Texas Transplant]

It certainly will be interesting.



However, I will state the same thing I've stated before.



The SPONSORS will ultimately dictate who fishes where. Not the PAA, BASS or FLW. The SPONSORS. They have ultimate control of the pocketbook.



If you look at the sponsors that Yelas has, it's no wonder he has pretty much announced that he is going to fish FLW.

Skeeter, Yamaha, Berkley





And if you look at KVD's sponsors, I'm betting that he will be fishing BASS again.

Nitro/Tracker, BPS, Strike King, Mercury



I don't believe that a majority (or most) of the BASS pro's will go to FLW. For one thing, most of them have no real way to get into the FLW Tour right now. Also, I wonder how upset the current FLW pro's would be with a 'bunch' of the BASS folks coming into their tour. After all, if 50 or 60 pro's go to FLW, then that means that 50 or 60 FLW pro's will be OUT!



I'm absolutely certain that the Pro's are uneasy/unhappy/unsure right now. They feel they have a forum, and may well be able to make some changes. I'm also sure, that next year BASS will have a 'Classic', Regular tour and an Elite tour. Just don't know who is going to be in them.



But it will be interesting.



Tex

 

[Bill McElroy]

Any BASS Pro's that want to fish the FLW will have to qualify through the Everstarts just like everybody else.....essentially,..if they jump ship, they won't be able to actually fish the FLW Tour until the 2007 season,...providing they make the cut after next season.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Mac,



The only caveat that I would add is . . .



Unless they get a sponsor exemption.



Not that he would do it, but I would imagine that Irwin would GIVE KVD a brand new Ranger, in a heartbeat, and an exemption, to get him in the FLW.



Tex

 

[Bill McElroy]

KVD wouldn't take that offer Tex,...no need to leave TM...he could probably get in thru a Chevy sponsorship. Kevin is very loyal to his sponsors...he won't leave BPS or Nitro....besides,..he could fish out of his Nitro anyway up until the final 2 days, and then they ALL fish out of Ranger's.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

All eyes are really on KVD to see what he's gonna' do:wacko:

 

[Texas Transplant]

Mac,



Maybe you can help clear something up for me. I've tried to read and keep up with what's going on. The one question/comment that does not make sense, is the one that Jay (and others) are making about the shirts. I certainly understand that they have contracts with different sponsors whereby signage on shirts/boats is required. This is the part I don't understand.



If Jay goes to FLW (as he has somewhat indicated he will do), and has a shirt problem, won't he have the same shirt problem on days 3 and 4 of a tourney in the FLW? Seems to me they 'dress up' all the 'cut' anglers while they are in their FLW Wrapped boats. Maybe I'm just missing something.



Tex

 

[Bill McElroy]

Tex,...the issue with the shirts is this: They've already got several hundred dollars tied up in their shirts with all their individual sponsor's logo's embroidered in the key spots, depending on how much they're paid. (Remember,....the more they're paid by a sponsor, the better "location" on the shirt, that logo appears) Certain spots on that shirt are considered very "High Rent" so to speak.....that being the middle of the back, the collar, the sleeves, upper chest, etc..etc....all because of the ease of seeing it in photo's and on TV. WELL,....BASS wants to more or less hijack those spots for THEIR purposes, and no..they WON'T be paying the Pro's for that real estate. That would force the pro's to have to go out and get all brand new shirts with their "paying sponsor's" logo's in less than desireable locations, when infact the Pro's could actually be sued by their sponsors for breach of contract. Their contracts specify that they have to have their logo's in some (most) of the very spots that BASS wants to use for THEIR stuff. As far as the FLW goes,...Pro's that make the 3-4th day that are not 100% FLW compliant, can wear (and yes, they are paid for those 2 days) an FLW Sponsors shirt. For example...KVD would wear a Chevy Jersey....no other logo's would appear other than the FLW logo and the Chevy logo.



Hope that clarifies it for you...



Mac

 

[TrepMan]

Man Mac this is COMPLICATED!!! Glad you understand it and high level pro's do!!!

 

[Texas Transplant]

Mac,



Helps to shed some light. I'm not certain that I fully understand why it's 'okay' to wear something like a Chevy shirt, and it's not okay to wear one where some of the logo's 'may' be moved.



I certainly understand about the cost factor for new shirts.



I'm guessing that logo placement and such will likely be worked out amongst the various parties, with contracts being amended and such. I would 'hope' that someone at BASS has talked to some of the major sponsors about this - but then again . . . .



Tex

 

[Bill McElroy]

The FLW has a bunch of exclusive sponsors that pay BIG bux to have their logo's and brands displayed in very prominant spots at tournaments and in the aisles of Walmart stores. Their support may also include sponsoring wrapped boats and vehicles for a number of angler's. The bigger their budget,...the more guys/gals they can sponsor. For example,..Yamaha Outboards, Ranger Boats, Fuji Film, Snickers candy bars, Pedigree dog food, Kellogg's PopTarts and Cereals, Land O'Lakes Dairy etc, to name a few, all sponsor FLW angler's with boat and truck wraps and a portion of their entry fees. (other perks and bonuses are available depending on your individual performance and tournament finishes etc) In exchange for this, the angler's have to work a predetermined number of hours or events working those companies booth's at the FLW Fun Zone, maybe taking company exec's fishing, attending various functions, local schools, etc...all in the name of promoting that company, the sport of fishing AND the FLW Tour. Remember, this IS about money, marketing, and product promtions....(NOTHING is ever FREE) so in exchange for this, those major "premier" sponsors are guaranteed a level of exclusivity at FLW events,...one of those being the publicity they get on the 3rd and 4th (TV) days with Pro's wearing jersey's with only their logo's on it. (Other logo's are allowed IF they also sponsor the FLW in a lesser role....such as Solar Bat sunglasses, Berkely line, Mann's Baits, Garmin, MinnKota etc..etc. Let's say for example, Angler "A" is sponsored by Ranger, Mann's, Yamaha, Minnkota, and Garmin. He/She can wear their shirt with all of those logo's displayed EVERY day of the tournament and even on the 3rd and 4th day if they make the cut. No sponsor conflicts,...no problems!! Angler "B" is sponsored by Nitro and Mercury, BPS, Lowrance and Chevy. He/She can wear their garb on days 1-2, and fish out of their Nitro. Then on the 3rd and 4th day, they will be allowed to wear ONLY a Chevy logo, and they'd have to fish out of a Ranger. ( I have a couple friends who have fished on the 3rd and 4th days, and even though they were sponsored by Ranger, they were asked to wear a "Snickers" and/or a "Chevy" jersey for the final 2 days, due to the fact that they had other "conflicting" logo's on their main jerseys. Not only did they get paid by those companies to wear their logo for the two days, (it's not chump change either!!) they get to keep those shirts...nice ones too!! (a nice little momento for their man-cave!!) So,..the bottom line is this,.....the more FLW "sponsor" compliant you are,..the more likely you'll be able to promote ALL of your sponsors. For those angler's that are sponsored by companies who do not sponsor the FLW Tour,...they won't have the opportunity to promote those companies on the TV days......only FLW sponsors get FLW TV time!!



Comprende??

Mac

 

[Dan J.]

BASS started circling the drain when the crew of Don Butler, Bob Cobb and Ray Scott were edged out by Helen Sevier and the bean counters. Now ESPN/ Dean Kessel have all but "jiggled the handle" on an already empty tank. The current ever-changing format(s) pale in comparison to the stability of the 80's and early 90's, except for the money carrot, ever dangling on a stick growing faster than Pinnocchio's (sp?) nose at a lie-fest. I can't blame any of the fellas trying to earn a living on this constant turmoil for jumping ship or just getting a set of custom golf clubs made. (LOL!) IMHO

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Pretty interesting in regard to this thread. Bill





Elite Series: The no-spin zone

The Elite Series is an unparalleled opportunity to build long-lasting careers

By Trip Weldon

 

[Texas Transplant]

Mac,



Again - thanks for the inside info. I maintain that a lot of the conversation and bickering that is going on right now between parties is part negotiation, part rhetoric, and part just plain griping. As they get this 'worked out', some will be left out; some will believe they have been treated badly, some will figure out how to really make it work for them.



The article on Bassfan today (part 1 or 2), is very interesting to read. What it leads me to believe is that 'some' of the anglers have truly figured out how to make this work for them. Some figured it out some time ago, and already are ahead of the curve.



Some of Trip Weldon's comments above, have been forgotten. Last year, when BASS was meeting with the anglers, I remember the press about running your own boat, smaller fields and bigger payouts.



Some will likey move to FLW (Yelas to certainly name one). Some others, will probably figure out that they can no longer compete and 'turn a profit' - and go back to some other line of work. Some will truly figure it out and really position themselves to flourish. And there will certainly be some that struggle to get by.



It's not a sport like the PGA whereby anyone who qualifies, automatically is assured of making a good living, based upon medicore performance. If you want to flourish on either of the fishing pro tours (bass fishing that is), you must be in the top 20-25 performance wise, and also have good marketing/promotional skills.



Tex

 

[TrepMan]

Tex - I KNOW i'm gonna get slammed for this one, especialy with the Braves in the Playoffs but "It's not a sport like the PGA whereby anyone who qualifies, automatically is assured of making a good living, based upon medicore performance." Forget about the PGA, what about Major League Baseball!! $300k+ for ANYONE in the Majors, regardless of IF they play! NOW that's a job I want!! yes, I know some of this folks are paid a lot LESS then say Football players, but the Baseball UNION has it down pat, and YES I know that the lifespan/earning potential of an average ball player is short, but thats THEIR problem and at $300k/year if they play 10 years and are SMART and put away 25% pre-tax, in an IRA or something like that they will have a cool million before they retire to live on and work with.



Mac, Dan and others - Thanks for letting us in on some of the information, it truly is very interesting reading from my desk chair. I'm NOT in that league and never will, but its always fun to read how the other half lives and how they go about their business.

 

[Bill McElroy]

The bottom line is this,......even if they get it all worked out through compromise...the pro's STILL gotta fork out @ $100K to fish the Elite trail.......very very few will do that!! IMHO.



We'll see...

Mac

 

[Texas Transplant]

Mac,



It will be interesting to watch. I believe that I know have a different opinion on how the pro's view the tourneys. Previously, I had viewed the tourneys as a group of single entity items.



'I'm fishing a tourney and have the chance to win, and receive $100K (or some other large amount'.



I don't think that is how most of the pro's saw it. I believe they saw it this way:



'I'm fishing a trail. I will spend $$ a certain amount to fish it. Over the course of the year, I will likely earn $$$ (put in some amount), which is more than my expenses - $$.



Therefore, they now look at it in this way.



'I'm fishing a trail. I will spend $$$$ (more dollars) a larger amount to fish it. Over the course of the year, I will likely earn $$$ (same amount of dollars), which is less than my expenses - $$$$. I'm not fishing.



It's not up to me or anyone else to tell them how to look at it. It's somewhat like the general discussion on 'is the glass half empty or half full'. Everybody has to determine that, themselves.



If I was in their shoes (which I'm certainly not), I'd probably be looking at it as a far greater opportunity to win more money, and profit more from the expanded trail and paybacks. Greater reward generally entails greater risk. Some will understand and embrace it - others will choose not to.



Great discussion and very enlightening.



Tex

 

[Dan J.]

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Dan, don't sugar coat it, how do you really feel? As Tex said, this is enlightening, very much so. I guess I'll learn more and more as this goes on?



Bill

 

[Dan J.]

Sorry Bill! I shouldn't have stated what I said about an individual based on my personal opinion. There's enough fellas with more to lose over this ordeal than I need to fan the flames about. I've witnessed a bunch on these topics, yet I'm still amazed every time BASS does something outrageously selfish and whom they choose to deliver their intent. I'm hoping they're just making way for something/somebody better. Maybe it will/should be Irwin and Co.?!

 

[Texas Transplant]

For the most part, I think having two different organizations and trails (at the highest level), is generally a good thing. Let's not forget (even though BASS personnel have changed quite a bit in the past years), that they are still learning to deal with change - where they don't have all the control.



For years (more like decades), they made the rules and affected change the way they wanted. Now, they have to deal even more with competing sponsors, anglers, competing tours and market conditions.



They just haven't been as good about it, as they needed to be.



Tex

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Dan, I was just teasing buddy.. I don't know enough about any of this to do any more than tease. You know far more than I do.



Bill