FYI for Opti owners...

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Craig Roberts

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Any Opti owners having problems with excessive spark plug fouling? One of our Techs just got off the phone with Merc, and they are now recomending that you back off the throttle to about 3000 RPM the last 5 or so minutes of running. The "computer brain" will automaticly lean out and it "cleans" the plugs off. He said while running WOT, the motor is running very rich, and you need the time at low RPM to correct that rich condition.



Craig
 
Craig,

Please have Tim or Kathy call Eric Smith and give him this info...thanx
 
Now i've seen it all!!! Ken, um couldn't you just A) walk to Craig's office from yours or B) call him on the internal phone line?? I thought I was lazy!!! LOL
 
I'm at home Trep, taking a day off but still concerned about my customers!!!
 
Neeley for prez.

Trep for secretary of garbage removal! LOL
 
Good job for Trep, we can also make him the Official White House Brewmaster if he learns a little respect for his Commander-In-Chief!!! LOL
 
Hey...I'm still lobbying for Secretary of Transportation and Entertainment
 
Sec. of garbage removal? I think it should be covert operations and intelligence! I DID get the president to openly divuldge his secret location to the public! Either that or Spin DR Trepper!!!



I'll take the Official White House Brewmaster too!!!



I think it's great you can work from home Ken, and still keep an "eye" on the store!!
 
OK, can we talk about the Opti for a minute? They really worry me.



Before VRO and oil injection, it pretty much took a human error or bad maintenance procedures to screw up the mixture and cause lean runs and under-oil situations.



Then VRO came along, and a lot of people toasted motors when their VRO pump failed. Don't get me wrong: It works well on many motors, but when it fails, it's a $3000 failure. Which is why it's so popular to disconnect them. Merc seems to have done better with their oil injection systems, but failure is not impossible.



Then Ficht and Optimax arrive. Add complicated software and electronics into the equation. Add very lean running parameters to pass polution certification. Add air pumps, pressure chambers, solenoid fuel atomizers, etc. Lots of small parts beating each other up several thousand times per minute. Most failures, even the non-catastrophic ones, are not driveway repair jobs, and require a trip to someone who can hook a computer to the motor. And some dealers have proved to be not up to servicing these motors.



And, in the background, every maker is rushing four-strokes motors to market in nearly every horsepower range, as fast as they can.



I'll ask the pros and semi-pros who are usually under warranty to hold their comments for on this until after some others have chimed in: Do you think Optimax motors are a safe purchase for someone who will hold a boat for five, eight, ten years? Would you buy one if you planned to keep it that long? Do you worry about resale on such a purchase?

 
I've got no business answering here because I'm an OMC owner for forever...And, will be far into the future,,, However, until oil pumps and injection systems become "bulletproof" and/or gas prices go through the $3-4 / gal level...I'm going to run a carbed 2 cycle or maybe an electronic injection system...But, (and I know the rule about never say never) I want reliability over mileage and low pollution at least until 2006. All of the high pressure systems require lean (read that limited amounts of oil) systems and that means critical parts live on the edge... ALl of this is only in my humble opinion. I know all the arguments about easy starting...etc. I also know about service advisories and recalls. Those carbs look very enticing to me...proven reliability...EFI...maybe same story..pretty reliable...plenty of oil getting inside. Maybe time will prove me to be "old and set in my ways" for no reason... I actually hope so... I'd love those easy starting motors that run lean and cheap... But....as, I said, until...
 
greg,i hear you on the carbed part.i hear all the problems with the new fuel injected motors and im glad i have 2 carbs on mine.all these electronics on the motors i dont like.more and more things to go bad/break.vibration,moisture,and poor design is the killer of these motors.friend had a motorcycle with oil injection on it.small pump run by a small v belt,the belt would break with no warning and bye bye motor.a lot of people took the belt off,tank and mix,no more boom.



i had(notice) had the vro on my motor till 2 yrs ago,i disconnected it due to alarms going off for no oil flow.rather than blowing the powerhead,i disconnected the vro and mix now.



i usually get 1 yr out of a set of plugs,but they probally would go 2 yrs.neighbor has origional plugs in a 1987 merc 115hp motor,they are the rimfire plugs,the expensive plugs,he mixes like i do,and i pulled a plug the begining of the season in april,they looked like new still.the motor fires right up and runs great.



my 86 merc 8 hp had the origional plugs in it till last year,i should have left them in,it raqn better on them than the3 new plugs i put back in,i put the same thing back in,took them out and put denso's in it.runs great.
 
Only time will tell.....



However, look what ignition and fuel computerization has done for the automotive industry.....



Twenty-five years ago, we thought we were doing good to get 100,000 miles out of an engine; today, I expect to get 200,000 miles without a rebuild or even a valve job!



When emissions regulations on the carbureted engines came into effect, fuel mileage went to heck. I and a 1979 Ford Futura 6-cylinder that only got 14 mpg. I disconnected the egr valve and plugged all the emisisons hoses to get a whopping 16 mpg. Now, V-6 engines on sedans are easily getting mid-20's.



Tune-ups were a way of life 25 years ago. My last Jeep - a 1992 with the 4.0L - went for 231,000 miles with only one tune-up! That tune-up I did at 40,000 and only because some sort of fiber had shorted out the electrode on one of the plugs.



How often do you follow an oil burner down the highway these days? Twenty-five years ago we saw them all the time!



The only thing in the world that would keep me from buying an Opti these days is the purchase cost. For the average person out there fishing, the fuel savings arguement just doesn't cut it.



me!
 
i've had my lx700 w/115 hp merc for a little over a year now and am still very much learning about the different types of motors. i am aware of the high costs to have boat motors worked on and appreciate the simplicity and proven reliability of the carb motors. i figure if the carbs have to be rebuilt every 5 years or so, i can handle it with the right parts and a good manual. with the 115hp 2+2 gas mileage is not really an issue to me for the waters i fish - might change my tune if i were travelling long distances. the only reason i would want an efi or opti would be the instant starting, especially when its cold out. i would figure that the carb motors would be the simplest and least likely to lead to heavy repair bills and have a proven track record. i would think that efi's have been around long enough for people to get a feel of their reliability but i'm not familiar with them - yet. opti's are really expensive and i would imagine very expensive to have work done to them not to mention the down time. boat shops around here are busy in the summer and your lucky to get your motor even looked at in 2 weeks. i try to do most of the work myself. with that said, if i were buying a new rig with greater than 150hp, i would probably buy the efi as i think they've been around long enough to become common in the industry so that the mechanics can easily work on them. big repair bills do not interest me at all. reliability and long term service in a motor does. please let me know if i've made the wrong assumptions.
 
James -



Having previously owned a Nitro 180/115 Merc, I know what you mean about fuel mileage. I don't ever remember using more than $10 worth of fuel in any given day.



Now I've got this Nitro2000/200 Merc..... This boat has 2 fuel tanks - the main one is the same size as was in my 180..... I {Gasp!} when I open the back hatch and see - or can't see - the fuel level.....



Guess I need to recondition myself!



That said..... Since I generally only use a boat once a week for 9 months out of the year - I still could not justify the original cost of the Opti in fuel savings.



If I were to buy a new boat today, by the time someone like me got around to selling it - five or ten years down the road - the entire boat would have depreciated enough that I could not count on significantly recouping my initial expense in the Opti.



Environmental issue are something I can not and would never argue against. However, with my 1994 carbed 2-stroke strapped to the boat, I don't give West Nile Virus a second thought! And I don't have to worry about driving fish away from my baits with the residue from deet!



me!
 
Rich,

Unfortunately, absolutely not. Many of my brand loyalties have changed this year. I would now side with Minn Kota over Motor Guide and Yamaha over OMC or even Merc. I have seen WAY yoo many blown Optis and Fichts. Now the EFI's run good but you almost never hear of problems with the Yamahas. And truth be known, of the ones I've driven, 4 to date, vs well over a dozen mercs, the Yamahas are faster, quiter, and better on gas, plus much more dependable. I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure SOMEBODY will, but the Yamaha VMaxs' are EPA compliant until about 2008. My next motor if given the choice will be a VMAX. Especially if I need to keep past the warranty. Optis are super expensive to repair. My .02
 
My motor is a '92 Force 70HP, and the powerhead was apparently designed in the 60's.. It's old, but it's simple and it's reliable (so far). Pump the ball and turn the key, it starts.. It rarely sneezes and NEVER dies out while idling.. Of course, I run out a 15 gallon tank in about 40-45 miles of travel at or nearly at WOT, so my mileage SUCKS! That's OK though, because like someone else said, I'd rather have reliability than efficiency.. Plus, it ain't like I drive the thing to work everyday!! LOL! The motor is 3 cylinders, 1 carb, which is also a plus in my opinion.. I don't have to worry about a carb failing and leaning out/burning up 1 of 3 cylinders.. Granted, this motor is not a powerhouse and could make WAY more power with what I feed it, it still does the job that I need it to do... What more can I ask for??



Here's what it comes down to in my humble opinion: The two stroke engine is a an antiquated concept that either needs to be left alone in all it's smoking, fuel spitting glory, or abandoned entirely. Trying to make a design that is inherently high-polluting and low-efficieny into something more eco-friendly is just not the way to go about things... You can't polish a turd!!



Wanna hear my conspiracy theory?? I think that eventually all marine engines will be 4 stroke, car like motors and will have gearcases that at least shift from a hole-shot gear to a planed-off gear, if not more gears than that...
 
Rob, I think only the Yamaha HPDI and four strokes are EPA compliant after 2006. A VMax spits out unburned gas and oil like any good two stroke ought too. :)

 
i rode in one of those skeeter boats w/a 200hp yamahaha v-max's and it was awesome! - plus those v-max's just sound cool. have not rode in an opti so can't really compare. a couple of brother fish the same lake as i do and they both have the same boat and same v-max engines (one boat is red the other white). they swear by em as neither has had problems and both run them pretty hard.
 
Your right Rich sorry. I meant the HPDI. Still a sweet motor. Of the 4 Yamahas I've driven, only 1 was a HPDI, and it acted and performed just like the Vmax. Sorry 5 Yamahas I've driven, just remembered another. I've been in a LOT of boats this year. I know a few guys (reps) that swear by the new 'Rudes, but any motor can run hard for one day! Give them a year on the trail and see how they hold up, then come see me. Just a little side note.
 
I am NOT one of the "early addopters" of technology UNLESS it's CHEAP!! Which by definition it will not be when it's new! One of the reasons I bought my NEW 40 Merc with a 5 year extended warranty, instead of a 5-8 yearold boat with a 150hp, is being very new to this boating thing I wanted piece of mind. I heard and still hear of folks blowing powerheads (still gotta read up on exactly that that means) on their used 150's, even the carb'd ones, and horror stories on some of the high tech DFI/OPTI motors too.



Realize i know DIDDLY about motors and less about Outboards, but IF i was to spend that kind of $$ (were talking boat/motor WAY over $20K)I would NOT want anything that was NOT proven and warrantied. So my vote would be No, not till the motors have had time to ring out the issues and have long term history.



I'm going to start another thread on the Warranty side of this, which STILL amazes me!!



 
Trep, you have to understand how a combustion engine works to really know what a blown head means. It could be several different things. The engine could overheat and crack the block, (the core of the motor, actual block of steel/iron/aluminum etc,in which run the pistons). When the block cracks it allows water from the cooling jacket around the outside into the piston cylinders and bang, you have a seized motor. Other times rings (the seals on a piston that keep the combustion contained and thus force the piston up and down creating the motor "life or action") the rings will "stick" and a piston arm or rod can be blown to pieces by the force and sometimes even literallycome through a wall of the block. Not pretty. Other times, the rings might stick only causing "scoring" of the cylinder wall which is like scratches or gouges that again defeat the purpose of the rings and the piston loses it seal, thus you lose the effect of the engine and major amounts of HP are lost until the wall repaired and rings replaced. They are many different deviations of these kinds of blown heads, but they all come back to these basic principles. Whenever a combusiton motor is running you need water to cool it, combustion mean FIRE, which means HEAT added to the heat of the friction as well. You also need lubrication where metal meets metal. If anything goes wrong in those areas or if the water that is meant to cool somehow gets into where there should only be lubrication say via a blown gasket, it takes only seconds to do irrepairable damage or blow the motor entirely. Hope that helps. Every boater should have a basic understanding of how motors work so if you break down and it's an eay fix, say not getting spark, you can get yourself at least to the ramp and have the underlying problem addressed by a tech. Just like with cars, I think everybody should know the basics of how they work in the event of a late night/winter breakdown.
 
Wait does this actually clarify that I know my arse from a hole in the ground? Don't want that nasty rumor getting out. It took me a long time to develop a rep as someone that is totally clueless! It takes an absolute genius to act this stupid convincingly! LOL
 
2 strokes are not like car engines. A minor problem in a car engine usally requires a trip to the shop and it running again.



In a 2 stroke, only a tiny amount of oil and water keeps it from melting. Running a 2 stroke at 3000 to WOT rpms is like putting your car in second gear and trying to go 80 mph uphill.



A minor problem in a 2 stroke can cost you a power head in seconds if the oil or cooling system fails. All it took on my 150 hp was a clogged jet in the carborator and the in several seconds I chipped a piston and scored the cylinder.

It must be rebuilt or scrapped. There is verly little margin for error. So why not add more oil, Well the you build up carbon in the cylinders, they stick, misfire, heat up ect and fail.



Thinking that boat motors are like car motor cost me big time. It's been said that you only really learn something if you loose money. I know more now and the price was high.
 
Food for thought:



Cars.....



"Throw away" idealism and society....Japanese figured us out pretty quick, build it cheap enough to last us five years and we would be happy (regardless of miles). That's about the time you've paid off your loan and get a new one anyway. Then dump it as trade-in and let someone else worry about the little things that go wrong, if you wait much longer, the seats fall apart and the bumpers fall off of them.

I've noticed tires are getting to be like that now, too. They last 3-4 years regardles of miles, if you only drive 10000 a year they rot off before 5 years and if you drive 25000 you'll get 90000+ miles before they're gone (go figure).

Yeah, we maintain em', but we still know they will not last us forever so out with the old and in with the new...



Now they want to build/run outboard motors like car engines, ha......good luck to us all!!!!!



THINK ABOUT IT!
 
The main problem I have seen are the ever changing EPA guidelines put on the manufacturer's; whether Merc., OMC, Bombardier, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc...If you think the prices are high, there are reasons. An engine is designed, parts are cast, tooling, etc.. to produce a complete line of engines only to have to change the specs every couple of years.(See C.A.R.B.) To keep from having to go back to the drawing board the mfg.'s have to make adaptations to the current production for cost and efficiency. Imagine how expensive it would be if the initial engineering of the motor changed each time a new guideline is imposed. (New castings, tooling, etc.) Whether cars, boats, engines, or motors, the biggest price hit is in the manufacturing. Many mfg.'s try to build new models with some foresight of the changing reg.'s on the horizon, however an engine built for specific tolerances can only be "tweeked" so much before the failure rate goes up. I would rather the feds look at more obvious violators such as commercial diesels (sorry Scott!), JP40, and large scale manufacturing. I can't believe our boats and lawn mowers do more damage than the more obvious, however more influential, previously listed examples. Just my .02!



P.S. Back to the original post. The Mercury support crews have been advising for the past couple of years that we run the Opti's between 2500 and 3000 rpm's to clean off the plugs and blow out the carbon. A short occasional five minute run in that rpm range will extend the life of the plugs and reduce the carbon build up. It's a good idea for all the 3 litre blocks, regardless of mfg.
 
P.S.



Most diesel engines have been computer controlled for about 7 or 8 years now. Besides offering better fuel consumption. they actually make engine diagnosis much easier because all you have to do is plug in a computer and you get all the info you could ever want! And when diagnosis is quicker and more accurate, repair is done more quickly and effectively = costs less.



Unfortunately, Michael, there are still far more diesel engines produced than outboards.....
 
and scott,they can be bumped up in hp quicker without costly addons or modifications.at least 50hp with a stroke of the keyboard.also a lot of options can be programmed in such as shutdown timers at idle,jake/engine fan combo,road speed in each of the upper gears in the trans and many more to mention.
 
Ah,ha! I forgot all about the horsepower jump, Jeff! Boy, have you got THAT right! Boost your Cummins, Detroit or CAT 100 HP with a couple of key strokes - quicker than I can type this message! Cost? Usually just an hour standard labor rate; although one of the companies (I forget which) won't give out the software to their dealers so that you have to link to the manufacturer and they charge an extra $300. Still, dirt cheap by "other" standards!
 

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