Which baitcaster for braid?

[Teri C.]

I really didn't think it mattered but the guy at Bass Pro last might said not to put braid on my BPS CarbonLite or Curado 200 reels. I can't for the life of me remember his reason. He was very knowledgable though and helped me alot to get the proper stuff for Guntersville.



So my question, which of my reels should I put 65 lb braid on? I have a Johnny Morris (the silver one), Browning Midas, Curado 200 old green one - new green one - and a silver one that was in between the 2 greens. That's what I have to choose from or of course buy another one. I need 2 for Guntersville.



He also told me to spool 1/4 of the reel with matching lb mono, then tie a blood knot, and spool the rest with 65 lb braid. He said if I didn't, I might risk the entire line slipping and I would be unable to reel. I didn't know this and it's never happened to me although I dont fish braid too often.



Also for rods, I have a St Croix Mojo Heavy Frog rod 7'. I went in to buy the Boyd Duckett micro guide flippin stick but he steered me to the Abu Garcia Veritas 7' heavy. Was this a good choice for frogs and flippin. The 7'6" seems really long to me.



Any advise would be great. I want to have the right equipment for fishing heavy matted grass.

 

[Gilbert Scales2]

Teri, I am waiting on replies on the curado's. That is all I use on my Shimano's. I do know if you don't put mono on spinning reels before braid it slips and will not reel in. I do not do it on my baitcast reels, and have had no problems.



Bubby:huh:

 

[Bob G.]

I use braid on my Curados (old green ones). I put mono on the spool first, then the braid. Not sure why it was not recommended by the BPS guy.

 

[TritonGlenn]

Teri,

It's your line size choice. Since the CarbonLite only holds 125 yards of 12lb mono, and 65lb braid is the equivalent of approximately 15 to 17 pound diameter (depending on the brand of braid), you aren't going to get a whole lot of it on that reel. I don't have anything that small to compare it to, but to give an example, one of my Pflueger's holds 160 yards of 12lb diameter. That same reel holds 90 yards of 17lb diameter. Take a guess at how many yards you are going to get on that CarbonLite? I'm estimating about 60 yards. Not nearly enough line. It's also going to be harder to cast with that heavier weight / diameter line coming out of a reel that just wasn't designed for it.



The Curado 200 holds 155 yards of 10lb test, so I'm guessing it's about the same or maybe a tad bit more of 12lb diameter as your CarbonLite. That is the reason he recommended not using either of those reels.



If you are going to use braid, use something with a bit more line capacity. I make it a rule never to have less than 100 yards of 30lb braid on my reels. I seldom ever use 65lb braid anymore, especially since I went to SpiderWire Invisibraid.



If you have a really good line tie on the spool, then you might get away with tying directly to the spool, but then you are stuck spooling the entire reel up with braid, which may be overkill. It definitely sucks if you get a backlash and have to dig through a whole spool of the stuff. He was absolutely right on putting mono on the reel, but it's not matching lb test - it's matching line diameter. If you are putting on 65lb braid, use somewhere between 15 and 17 lb diameter for your backing. If you are using 50lb braid, use 12lb diameter mono. If you are using 30lb braid, use 8lb diameter mono. It doesn't need to be a 1/4 of the spool, or anywhere close to it. You simply should put on a good backing of mono that will not slip like braid can.



Not everyone has the capability of doing so, but here is how I do it: I take one reel and put a cheap Shakespeare "line counter" on the line (you can get them at BPS). I tie directly to the spool and might even put tape to keep it from slipping. Then I spool on 100 yards according to the line counter. I then tie on matching line diameter mono with a knot that I'm not quite sure of the name. A friend taught it to me. I'll try to find the name, but it's not a blood knot. I then spool on mono to fill up the rest of the reel, using the line counter to keep track of how much I put on. I annotate that in my fishing notebook according to the reel I just used. Then I take the tag end of the mono and attach it firmly to the spool of the reel that I plan to use. I wind it completely onto the new reel so that now the mono is on the bottom and the braid is on top. Now the spool is filled perfectly, and I have a notebook with the amount to spool next time, so the double reel method is not neccessary anymore. Very anal-retentive, I know... but I know for a fact how much line is on every reel I start out with.



If you really want to use one of those two reels, you might consider dropping down to 50 lb braid, as that is 12lb line diameter and would give you a similar capacity. You could throw on a few loops of mono as backing until you cover the spool arbor, and then fill the rest up with braid.



I don't like "heavy" for a frog rod at all. I see people all the time missing fish on topwater frogs because they are using a rod with a extra stiff tip. My all time favorite frog rod is make by Shakespeare. Yes... it's an Ugly Stik, and I carried two of them all over the Potomac and seldom ever missed a fish on a topwater frog. The MH 7" rod gave me a ton of backbone to wrestle them out of thick grass, but that Ugly Stik tip gave me the "give" that allowed me not to pull the frog out of the fish's mouth on the hookset. The downside though? The rods were really heavy (weight wise), and would wear me out during the course of a full day's fishing. I'm experimenting right now with a few Abu Garcia's, but I won't know until I get through all of them. None of them are heavier than MH.



Abu Garcia Veritas are great feeling rods. So are the Vendetta's. But I still wouldn't go heavier than MH for a frog rod. I also prefer a 7" MH for my jig rod too. I'm only 5'8" and 7'6" is just too awkward feeling in any fishing rod.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Greg Meyer]

Teri,



Glenn "nailed it"... Excellent advice. Could that knot be a "double-uni-knot". I use the doubler uni to join dissimilar lines all the time... mono and braid... leadcore and braid.. Then I cover the knot with a drop of (super glue) Fishing Glue and blow away the excess. When the glue dries the glue and the knot form a small football shaped "bead" that slide through line guides and does not hang up on casting or spinning reels.



Don't skip over the "tape it"... black electricial tape run on/over the line is a real help in getting line spooled properly, it won't slip!

 

[Mike Clayton]

Teri...Glenn gave a lot of good info (thanks Glenn) so I'll just put my .02 in for the heck of it...I use 50lb braid and yes I spool the first few rounds with the same diameter which is 12 lb mono, have this on five reels and fish very heavy mat and pads in Fla and seldom any problems...One of my reels is STX revo recently purchased and it works great on that one too...love the braid....

 

[Teri C.]

Thanks for the advise! Glenn, he did say diameter, I think I wrote it up wrong. He really gave me alot of good info in a short period of time. My brain only retains 20% I think. ha! He also told me a couple different knots to use but blood knot is the only one I remembered.



Sounds like I might need to get a reel with more line capacity. Any suggestions? I saw the Revo above.



When I swim frogs (like Ribbit) in open water, I use my topwater rod which I think is 6'9" MH XF St Croix Mojo. I don't see this rod being great for jerking them out of really thick matted grass. I broke my Daiwa L & T last weekend trying to get my jig out of the grass. It was 7' MH F. Probably my fault though.

 

[TritonGlenn]

The Revo is an excellent reel, but so far I only have experience with the STX and Winch series of Revo's. I haven't tried out the other offerings from them, but if they are anything close to the STX, then they should be fantastic reels.



On my frog rods, I have used Pflueger Summit WLP's for quite a few years and really like them, but it appears Pflueger discontinued them because they aren't in the catalog. The Asaro WLP is a lower priced version of the Summit, without the dual braking system. I had a few, and liked them "ok", but greatly preferred the Summit, so I sold all of them a while back and stuck with the Summit WLP.



I just found a Shimano chart for the Curado E that pretty much confirms what I was thinking. The 200 size will only hold 80 yards of 65lb test braid. You can see it here:



http://fish.shimano.com/publish/content/global_fish/en/us/index/products/reels/low_profile_baitcasting/Curado_E.html



You might want to look into the 300 size of that reel, as it holds plenty. I have absolutely no experience with Shimano; nor do I even know what that size reel looks like, but I know the Curado has a huge following so it might be worth a look.



I'll probably be ordering a few more Revo STX's soon and more than likely will have two frog rods rigged with them.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Greg Meyer]

Also have to second Glenn's comment about Ugly STicks... I have five setup on trolling rods, running what we call "three ways" (pencil weight 1-2ozs on a 8-12" leader on a "dropper", 24"-48" leader with Rapala or Thubnderstick (usually) crankbait, attached to 30-50lb braid main line, all connected with a three way swivel. They get snagged on "stuff" trolling rivers all the time... I have watched lots of rods snap at 1.5-2.5mph when they snag... My Ugly Sticks will bend all to heck and then the drag will slip or the dropper or leader will break, but never the rod.., They are not pretty, they aren't real "sensitive" or light (and they aren't real expensive) but they are very rugged.

 

[Bruce Freeman]

On the rod selection, I am 6ft 1 and only have one 7ft MH rod and that is my open water frog rod for the Gambler cane toad (solid body) Double over hand cast just as far as I can throw it. Curado (silver)65lb braid with 15 lb backing. For everything else I use a 6ft 6 rod, it's what ever works for you. My hollow body frog rod is a 6ft 6 spinning rod with a Diawa saltwater reel. I like to cast under and into places most people would not try. Skip a frog up under a bank or into an exposed tree top and hold on tight.



BF

 

[Mike Clayton]

I have two STX....one is the STX 6.4:1 with 10 ss + 1 rb (bearings) and an STX-HS 7.:1 gear with 11 ss beraings and both hold 12/140 and both have a centrifugal (sp?) drag which other Garcia SX models don't have..so go with the STX if you decide. Most tackle stores seel them for around 189.00 to 199.00 but you can find better pricing on line and Dave on this site offers some good pricing...( no I'm not Dave )...but have mailed him for pricing and other info. Have mine on 6.6 customs rods med action made here in Gainesville by Billy (stix) and no I am not Billy...so I can't really recommend other rods even though I have some older model Ugly Stix and others....the STX are low profile with a carbon matrix drag and brass gears...I use the STX-HS for crank baits and frogs across heavy mats and heavy pads...I had a learning curve with the STX as far as casting, very smooth....

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Also....another comment from the peanut gallery, some of us use braid on the bigger (2500) spinning reels. For me it is for casting applications...including frogging... where a "professional overrun" can ruin your day!!:lol: Flipping & pitching I still use a baitcaster with braid. Although all of my gear is JLM.



TOXIC

 

[Dan J.]

The Curado 300 is a pretty good sized reel. You should be comfortable with the old green and the silver 200 series and have plenty of line for frogging with 65#. I'd rather fish with less weight in hand for more longevity. Wrap a few yards of 20#-30# mono on the spool then tie the uni to uni to your braid and load the spool. Match those with your Mojo and Veritas rods and you're good to go. You won't be doing and long distance fishing when frogging. (Where enormous line capacity is necessary.) If you do throw real far frogging, you'll most likely just get your heart broke on a take. Good luck!

 

[Bob G.]

Glenn,



I agree with you about the amount of braid that will fit on a 200 size reel, but I don't think more than 80 yards of braid is needed for flipping and pitching. Braid doesn't need to be cut off and retied as much as mono. I usually get 2 seasons out of braid. I take it off and wind it on from the used end.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I also forgot to mention, that the new "Wide Spool Technology" spinning reels were developed especially for braid.



TOXIC

 

[Texas Transplant]

Great thread. Thanks for all the info.



Tex

 

[TrepMan]

I know everyone has favorites and sponsors (some do), but any recommendations on braid brands? I tried the Spiderwire Easy Braid, and hated it, then tried PowerPro and only on 1 reel have I had problems, but they have been signifigant. I have one of the new KVD reels from BPS, spooled up with new 30lb PowerPro for G'vill 2 weeks ago, and more then 1/2 the time I'd get a backlash (my fault, not the reels) i would have the lure SNAP off the line and have to go get the lure (or its lost like SPinner baits and Buzzbaits), I know its not the knot as when I was able to get the lure back, the knot was intact and had maybe 1 inch of line still on. Now that i'm thinking it through, i need to go check my guides, maybe I have a nick or just got a bad spool. The other spools of PowerPro worked great on my other and Eli's reels.



Trep

 

[Teri C.]

I looked at the gold Johnny Morris on line and they have a wide spool for the bait caster. I am only working about 3 miles from BassPro today. Hmmm, I feel a detour in my future.



Trep, I have had issues with braid and seem to have the least with Power Pro. I did buy Spider Wire this time because it was on sale and I needed to spool 2 reels. I will let you know how it goes. I want Power Pro but it would have been $10 more for 300 yrds.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Teri,..if you're going to the BPS,......check out a BPS NITRO reel..it has a wide spool and gears strong enough to jerk a car battery off the floor!! EXCELLENT Braid/frog'n reel!!

 

[Tornado]

I have had braid on an old green Curado and didn't like it and now have flurocarbon on that reel and it's doing fine. I don't have any of the other reels you mentioned but I have a friend that fishes 85 lb braid on one of the silver Johnny Morris models(of course he's fishing Falcon).

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Teri,

You like the Brownings? Email me on that, use the mvm email list.



I also have the Nitro reels for striper fishing and also for the catfishing! GREAT reels and they hold up well! STRONG!

 

[Teri C.]

I liked the Brownings at first but they didn't seem to hold up as well as others over a few summers. I just cleaned them finally and they are doing alittle better. I believe you can get them on sale at BPS for around $70. Decent reel for that but I would spend alittle more and get a Revo S for $100 online at Walmart.

 

[Mike Clayton]

Teri,

I think if you are going to buy a Revo S you would be better of to jump up to an STX model since you compete, they are lighter and have 11 bearings and a much better drag system, they list for around 189.00 but I have been able to buy several for a lot lower...149.00/139.00...very well made and smooth too.

Mike

 

[Teri C.]

Mike, where did you find those prices? I generally buy Curados but bought a Revo S for a dedicated braid reel.

 

[Mike Clayton]

Teri,

There are several being offered on Ebay (never thought I'd be doing the Ebay) but put in a winning bid for 2 at two different times and was able to buy each for under $140.00 and also

there is a guy on this site Dave@premier who had some he was offering for around $169.00 but not sure he has any left, he has a post in the swap/sell on this site.

Some of the Ebay sellers are sporting good places and some have offers to go and do an outright buy without having to bid. I guess I have too much time on my hands!!!! The out right buys seem to be higher than if you bid and win, I am bidding on another reel for a friend of mine currently.....now don't go and out bid me:unsure: just kidding...

Best of luck to you in the Tx...

Mike