Tow Vehicles...MINI VANS...AHHHH!!!!!

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Ethan Book

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Okay, my family is starting to grow and our family trips are getting difficult to take. The car seat, my wife, and I don't all fit very well in the front of the Sonoma and the Mystique won't pull the boat. So, my question is...do any of you pull your boat with a mini van? And, I'm not talking about a Astro or anything. I was wondering if anyone used a Windstar or Caravan or something like that? My boat probably has a package weight around 2,000 pounds so I just wanted to know if would work for the trips to Canada and such...? Thanks for any imput. Also, I do want to mention that I am looking at mini van's in protest!
 
This is right up Trep's alley! I'm sure he will repond with everything you will need to know.



I don't know anything about towing anything with a mini-anything!! LOL!!!



Bob G.
 
A Crew Cab would be nice but not practical. We have one kid now, and if we had one more we wouldn't fit in the car on a trip to Grandma's house. Plus I can't afford the gas for the crew cab on a long trip. So, we'll have to get a mini van for the wife to drive and for family trips and then I get to keep my 94 Sonoma for when I want to feel like a man and drive around in 4wd...
 
I agree with Tee. i have a quad cab Dakota and i put my nephew in the back in his baby seat all the time. Its every bit as big back there as a car is but its still a truck in every way. If you need a truck and room for kids its the only way to fly. Chevy, Dodge, Nissa, Toyota and ford all make small trucks in the 4 door full back seat configuration.



If you really have to go the mini van route do yorself a favor and get a Chevy Astro van. Its a good van that is built to tow and gets decent milage to boot. You wont have problems on ramps like a front wheel drive one can and the drivetrain is tough enough to handle towing long term. You can also get all wheel drive if you live where it snows. My father has an all wheel drive one and its great in the snow and it tows his boat(17" glass) just fine.
 
I used a Dodge mini-van for years, when I had a smaller boat and all went well....
 
1997 Mercury Villager, towing a 700xl with a 90HP. Not a problem.
 
Ethan,

My fishing partner pulls his rig with a mini van. For the most part it does fairly well. However, on some of the steeper ramps that we have been to, his front wheel drive has trouble getting a grip and pulling the boat out of the water. On one occasion, he had to get pulled up the ramp by another vehicle. Now, when we know we are going to one of those ramps, and using his boat, we will use my Ram 1500 to pull it. By the way, my 1500 is a quad cab. I have 2 daughters and a 90lb Boxer that ride in the rear seat for 2.5 hours nearly every weekend in the summer up to the cottage. Plenty of room and no complaints, except when the dog has gas...!!!
 
I know, I know a crew cab truck with four doors would be the BEST tow option. But, for my price range and family needs it is not possible. If I bought this summer I would still be using it, crosses fingers, in 5 or 6 years and by then we could have 3 or 4 kids. Well, then the truck woudn't be as nice for 12 hour trips. Plus when we are not pulling the boat it wouldn't get good gas milage like a mini van. So, I need to get a mini van and then I'll just have a small truck like I do now. This vehicle will mostly be used by my wife and on family trips with the boat.



Thanks for all the imput everyone with vans. I was wondeing about the launching/loading thing. We have a couple of steep concrete ramps on the lake close to our house and I wondered if that could be a problem. Also, I know in Canada on their gravel ramp that I would have to have someone else launch the boat. Keep the recomendations and experiences coming!
 
Ok Mr. MINI VAN is here!!! LOL Of course our Leader Rich pulled his 2 different 17ft glass nitro's with his Caravan before he got the Sport Trak.



So, everyone else is correct. I've towed with a 99 Honda Odyessy (dealer installed tow package with Trany cooler) and currently a 2003 Kia Sedona (only 2003 Minivan to COME with a auxilliary trany cooler standard!!). I tow my 175 with it with no problems. Yes and WET VERY Steep ramps my front wheels if I leave it in drive may spin, but drop it into Low and off I go. Never had to have towed or pulled out. Rides great. Is it IDEAL, no - Rear wheel drive or 4 wheel drive is BEST, but it works great with no problems. I've pulled the boat out with livewells full, full tank in the boat, and 3 adults sitting in it no problems.



As to the "I am looking at mini van's in protest!" My wife and I went the other way, she bought a '96 Dodge Ram Club Cab with the 5.9ltr V8 as a Mommy mobile and I tried to convince her of the Minivan. Well she had the Dodge for 1 year and has had a minivan since. The sliding doors are a HUGE bonus with kids in carseats, since in a parking lot its HARD to get the doors on a truck/sedan ALL the way open and lean into put and lock/load the baby down in the carseat.



Another nice feature is in those shallow ramps where you need to get the rear wheels wet to float the boat, you just open the rear hatch before you back down, you can SEE where you're going and then WALK right out the back to the boat!! I put walkramps on my Trailer so I wouldn't slip, and it's even easier!!



Most of the V-6 Minivans are rated to tow 3500lbs, but i'd stay on the low side of 3000 since that does NOT include the people in the van and all the gear in the boat/van!



Trep
 
That being the case, I would look into one of the mini vans which offer an "all wheel drive" option.
 
Nothin' wrong with an Astro AWD w/4.3. Trust me...I've done my share of towin' with Minivans(Astro mostly). They do better than the front wheel drives IMHO:)
 
I used to tow with a Voyager...

Trashed 2 transmissions...however, I was told that that model had a history of that anyway...



What about an SUV?

You've got space and 4WD.

Love my Grand Cherokee!!!



az
 
How about a Jeep Liberty 3.7 Liter?? Ive been thinking about getting one of those but dont know if it will handle the NX750. My drive to work is 80 miles round trip and I have an F150 FX4 want to save some gas money???



Sorry to bust in with this question.



Mark
 
I currently tow with an F-150 (standard cab) but thought about putting a hitch on my wife's Honda Odyssey so I can take her and the 2 kids to the lake instead of taking two vechicles. I have an 18 1/2 foot boat and don't know how the minivan would do on steep ramps. Another option might be to look at a used quad cab that is in your price range. My next truck will definitely be a full size quad cab.
 
NO QUAD CABS!!!!!! There is not enough room in a quad cab for my wife, myself, two carseats, and one other child (that's where we could be in the future)!!! I need a mini van. Thanks for the advice Trep. I had looked into a Caravan with a 3.8 V6 and the tow package. Plus, it needs to be noted I'm a young youth pastor and I make a young youth pastor salary so big trucks equal big money to buy and big money to fill with gas!
 
Sorry that I didn't mention the exact boat. Like I said, the total package weight is around 2,000 pounds. It is an older Starcraft 16 ft. deep-vee with a walkthrough w/s. Probably compares to a Tarag or such. Also, it has a 70 hp Johnson.
 
Patt - in all due respect to your INFINETE knowledge on boat/motors... How many boats and miles have you towed/launched with a minivan?? :) "dinky engines " my 3.5ltr V6 has as much if not more HP/Torque then 2 of the 3 engines in the 2005 Ranger, and the 4.0 ltr V6 in the Ford is BARELY stronger then the Kia (207hp vs 195hp, and 238lb-ft vs. 218 lb-ft). Not to mention that The Honda SLAMS the Ranger in all engines - 255hp and 250 lb-ft of TORQUE!!!



Ethan - I'm not thrilled with the continued quality issue on Dodge/Chrysler products. I know Rich is on his 2nd Dodge Minivan and I think his first one had a trany problem. We bought the Kia primarly because of the price point, bang-for-the-buck, AND the 5 year 60k bumper-2-bumper warranty, not to mention the 10 year/100k trany warranty!!! Now you can NOT get power sliding doors on the Kia (we had them on the Honda and my wife liked them with infants but was scared with the kids walking that one would shut it on the other!!!), and it does not have the stow/go rear or middle seats, but is a good middle sized (between the Caravan and the Grand Caravan). But other vans are good as well, if we'd have not had the Honda Totalled we'd still have it towing today.



Trep
 
I have launch my 700xl with the Villager on steep, windy, slick, unpaved, and crowded. All without the lightest problem. And the ablity to carry four kids (17,16,4,2) wife and dog is great. Granted climbing some of the steeper hills on the Mass Pike is slow, I aint in a hurry. Besides that is no longer a problem as I moved.
 
Jim - I can't argue the torque numbers, its a fact, and you are right at the rpm's they make that amount. My point to Pat was that to assume Minivans have dinky engines is just plain wrong.



Yes the 882 with a 150 xr6 without gear/gas is probably (per Tracker) aroud 25-2600lbs. Load it up with gas, tackle and such and i'll bet its EASILY over 3000lbs. SO I would agree on a typical minivan NOT being an ideal tow vechile for a 882 as an example.



But...Ethan is talking about towing a 16ft aluminium with a 70 hp motor, probably very comparable to my 17ft with a 40 hp. And at that weight and length I'll see no problem in towing (with OD off) anwhere with it. As I posted above, would I want to pull an 882 out of a steep slick ramp with a frontwheel drive anything? Nope. Is the Kia (as an example) a decent tow vehicle to take my boat to the lake or across the country - yup!



Trep
 
Okay.... here's what not to do.... I wish I had a picture... Two young guys... two young girls and a 32 or 34 ft Wellcraft... They were trying to launch it with a KIA Sportage... it was a 4X4.....
 
Ethan, towing that boat with a FWD minivan is no problem. Logged quite a few miles with boats and jets skis up to 2500 lbs. behind a Dodge Grand Caravan 3.8 V6. Make sure you get a transmission cooler, either factory or aftermarket. The tight packaging of most minivans engine bays places cooling capacity at a premium. The DamChryco 3.8 V6 is a very refined "old technology" motor. It's a pushrod motor that Chrysler tamed in terms of overall smoothness, but it still has the torque of the pushrod motors of yesteryear. Pulls very strong on the low end, perfect for towing.



Trep, we had a tranny problem BEFORE I started towing with the '97 Grand Caravan....factory defect showed up at 4K miles. My sister-in-law drives that van now, and it's got well over 80K miles without any further issues since the tranny was repaired; it's a solid van and still looks close to new; my brother-in-law is a wash and wax fanatic. Later model years have better tranny history. We have a 2001 Town and Country now, don't tow with it, but it's solid at 45K miles.



Most minivans don't do a heck of a lot better than trucks when it comes to MPG. Our minivan gets abuot 18 to 19 mpg in suburban driving. My Sport Trac (4.0L v6) gets about 17.



There is no question, a minivan makes hauling kids so much easier. My wife laments driving one due to it's lack of curb appeal, but she would never give it up while still toting a youngster.



KIA does offer great value and an awesome waranty. The incentives on the Chyslers are always appealing. I particularly like the new stow-and-go seating features.



If the anti-minivan folks here scare you into looking at something else, consider an entry level Ford Explorer. It's actually very well equipped, has a good basic towing setup with the 4.0 V6, OEM coolers, and a hitch. It's one of the smoothest riding SUVs you'll come across, so it's easy to live with as a daily driver. I see them advertised for under $19K all the time.

 
Thanks for jumping in Rich, and see I said " I think his first one had a trany problem." thanks for clearing it up!!!



I do wish the Kia had the rear fold into the floor seat (like the Ford, Honda, Toyota and newer Dodge/Chryslers). But at $20k out the door from www.carsdirect.com for a van stickered over $26k, could not pass it up!!
 
Dave - If Macho is your goal then get the Honda! Its the Most Powerful, Fastest and Best Handling (per Motor Trend) of the current minivans!!!
 
The ability to pull effectively is important, but please remember to consider STOPPING. I routinely pull my 911 all over Ohio and down into the southern states. I pull it with a Chevy 2500HD crew cab 4x4 - you really don't even notice the boat is back there going down the road. Until you need to make a quick stop - then even with trailer brakes you can feel the boat pushing the truck a little (and I have a big truck). I often see guys pulling 18-20' bass boats loaded with gear with Explorers, Rangers, Blazers and the like. I would not want to have to make a quick stop.



Lighter boat should equate to smaller tow vehicle but the principle is the same...
 
Scott - I agree 100% on the stopping too!! I used to tow my Tracker with my 92 Saturn 5 speed a few times a month, when the van was in use by the wife/kids and wife did NOT like a stick. I was VERY careful to give EXTRA space at all times between me and the car/truck in front.



Even with the Van with 4 wheel antilock breaks I do the same.



Dave - We looked closely at the Honda, but having blown the $$ once (it DID hold it's value AMAZINGLY) i could not see 30K+ for a minivan!!
 
Ethan, I don't understand why the family you listed won't fit in a Chevy 1/2 ton crew? 3 in the back is a cinch and if you wanted more covered space put a cap on it. MPG is the same cost is near the same and you get a great tow vehicle.



As for the mini's, if you had seen KB jack knifing his truck and trailer to aviod pancaking me, you would never trust your safety and especially your family's in any inferior tow vehicle. Money should not be the object when safety is involved. Towing destroys vehicles...even vehicles designed to tow...it just takes longer.



TOXIC
 
Tox, to put it simply the reason my family won't fit in a Chevy 1/2 ton crew is...well, I only make less than $18,000 a year and that's the only family income. I have a few benefits, but you gotta admit that is not the salary that buys a 1/2 ton truck and pays for the gas, insurance, car payments, repairs, etc... But, I guess with your advice I'm not even sure if I should be pulling my boat with my V6 Sonoma! Oh well, I guess I would be better off selling the boat, but I can't because it was a gift...
 
Ehan,

I believe all Tox was asking you to do is survey your options a little more.
 
Oh, I wasn't angry, I just wanted to prove that I cannot under any circumstance afford a truck like he and others had suggested. My family really needs a mini van because we are a growing family and a truck as the only family vehicle just does not work. In a perfect world I would get a mini van and a big quad cab truck...alas we do not live in a perfect world...which explains why I hang out on a Tracker Owners board even though I own and older Starcraft with an even older motor...I want to live your bass boat/bass fishing lives in my dreams :) Really, my options are mini van or two vehicles to the lake because of price, gas mileage, repair costs, etc... And, I'm very thankful for the input that I've received.
 
If that's what it comes down to then I would find ya' a good used Astro and put a tranny cooler on it.

 
I can undestand the "manly" issue of not wanting to recommend a minivan, but the rest of this "inferior tow vehicle" and "will stress that little vans guts out"???



Tox and Patt don't and have not owned and towed with Minivans. Rich, Greg, Rick, and I have them and have towed many miles with them SAFELY.



No, i'm not a mechanic and i'm not an engineer (that's my wife :) But given the liability issues on vehicles these days (think Firestone and Explorer) when vehicle Manufacturers rate a vehicle for a specific load (which a lot of people tell me they rate it LOW anyway) I see no evidence of why a 2000 lb boat/trailer can not and should not be towed regularly by a front drive minivan rated to tow 3500lbs?



Again, is it the IDEAL tow vehicle purely from a tow perspective? No, that would probably be a 2 ton 4x4 Truck. But since a lot of us do NOT have room or $$ for a 3rd vehicle, need something to take the boat and the family, and we're cognizant of the issues (steep ramps, wet ramps and too heavy boats), they are fine tow vehicles.



Heck i've seen a full sized v-8 Chevy truck need a tow when pulling a boat WAY too big for its load.



Trep
 
Nothing to do with a macho thing trep, it's all about safety. Can you do it in a minivan.....sure, will you be safe.....probably. Are you willing to risk your wife and boys on "probably"? Manufacturers rating is one thing, Pat is talking real world, frame, brakes, etc. I pull my 929 barge with a 3/4 ton because I don't want to risk "Your" family or anybody else's either. Bottom line is a minivan is not "designed" to tow, it is "designed" as a family vehicle and grocery getter. Can it tow....yes. It is not it's primary function, it is an after thought to get a few fringe buyers. I could have saved a lot of $$ by getting a 1/2 ton but I could not make myself ingnore the safety aspect, so I dug a little deeper.....and it stung pretty good.



Ethan, give a look to used trucks, nobody said it had to be new off of the showroom floor. I'm not sure there is that much of a price difference. You would have to get a bare bones truck, maybe even a rental car place truck (they rent them like cars now and sell them off at 25k miles). There are some vehicle salesmen on here if I remember correctly, let's see if they chime in. With interest rates and financing the way it is you can afford more than you think. Bottom line is you are towing a lighter boat and that is in your favor. Do what you can afford and hope for the best, just make sure you have looked at all of the options. Don't everybody get all defensive because there are very valid reasons not to tow with one. And the reason I never have had one......I never owned a boat that I felt one could handle "safely."



TOXIC
 
Tox - I'll challenge you on the "is a minivan is not "designed" to tow" when it comes to my Kia. The ONLY reason that Kia designed and implemented the first factory installed auxilliary transmission cooler in a minivan (the Sedona) is SPECIFICALY because it was designed as a family tow vehicle and a tow package is available from the factory/delear with Kia parts (hitch/reciever and wiring). This is NOT an after thought - Period.



I disagree that the other van's who's manufacturers list tow ratings, test them before listing, and offer dealer installed OEM parts (Honda for one) for a towing package is NO different then the Trucks/SUV's that offer tow packages through the dealer. Yes a Body on Frame is stronger then a unibody, but different applications for different needs and capacities.
 
Ethan, bet you never thought you'd open this can of worms with a simple question huh?



You have to consider the gross vehicle load ratings also...that means you your wife your kids and all your gear plus the boat. Minivan's are rated at 2-5000lbs tow weight but what is its gross rating? When you load up the vehicle you effectively lose some of that stated tow rating which is lower on the minivan to start. This is why most people recommend only about 50-80% of a vehicles tow rating as reaslistic. Not saying it can't handle it but make sure you buy with your 12 hour family trip in mind.



I towed with an Explorer Sport for a couple years which had a 5700lb tow rating...when I loaded it up with people it was downright dangerous with my 2800lb boat. When just me and one other buddy it was fine.



Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
Your right Corey, I never thought in my life that I would start a thread anywhere, on any message board that would have this many posts...a huge can of worms...and I can't fish with any of them!!! In fact, I'm not sure if I even remember my original post after all of this reading...let me go check it out............hmm...... Well, I have basically come to the decision that most on this board are older than I am (24), have better paying jobs, or have worked longer, or have a two income family, or whatever because I see a lot of pictures of nice trucks and boats in their libraries. That being said I think I may have come to a conclusion...I'm going to wait! I think that I could buy a minivan that would work, but if I laid down the $7000 to $8000 in my price range there is a decent possibility that my 1977 Johnson would crap out and that it would take to much $$$ to fix. So, we'll just take two vehicles to the ramp and try to bum a ride for the carseat on the way to Canada. That being said, I think I'll keep my eyes and ears open for some minivans like Trep has posted about and see if I can't find a whale of a deal. I guess I'm just and old penny pincher...I don't do car loans and I don't do new vehicles...thus I'll probably just have to wait until something is REALLY needed. Again, thank you so much for all of the imput whether it was for or against mini's...and, keep it coming if you have had good or bad experiences.
 
Yep...the allmighty dollar will oftentimes make the decision for us. You have plenty of time left for fishing and buying and paying for things...don't rush it.



BTW...GVWR is the weight of the vehicle, gas, people, gear and what you are towing. The Minivans are rated at 5500lbs GVWR. Take away the curb weight of the van, full tank of gas, people, boat, and gear and stay in that safe 50-70% range that is widely recommended and you can see it is indeed limited according to the manufactuers rating....the tow rating advertized is factoring a lightly loaded vehicle. (I learned this all the hard way when I bought an undersized vehicle for my 882)
 
I don't want to stir the pot, but with some of the mfg.'s offering 0-3% new vehicle financing, you might have a better use with the cash payment idea. My last truck ('02) was the first I'd financed in years (at 0%) which gave me three yrs. of earnings while leaving my money invested. (Granted, $20K may not seem like a lot, but it's earnings on my side of the table!) It's paid off and I can attribute part of it's equity to my dividends.



Also, the "mini" part of minivan is all it takes to keep a tow hitch off the wife's! LOLOLOL!!!
 
Yes TEE - The Honda van was totaled 3 yearsago and my mom totaled my Merc Wagon in 2003. Researched and at the price point of $20-25k, the Kia is the BEST, SAFEST, Most build for Towing and BEST warranty minvan in 2004!!!



 
Hey Trep....mine's paid for just like yours!! LOL!!



Just razzin' ya!



Bob G.
P6190613A.jpg
 
i agree save your money , and get the right tow vehicle. So you wont be disapointed. And like Dan said with some of the deals on new vehicles with the rates so low thats the way to go. Dude car loans are like mortgages or rent and electric, everyone has one and you will always pay for it .When your 65 your house may be paid for but you will still have an electric bill and have to buy a car every 5 years.. just a thought.
 
Bob - I was WAITING for you to do that !!! LOL



Joe - Hate to disagree with you, but a car loan is SOOO different from a mortgage! A house (thought not always in the short term, and not ALWAYS) appreciates over the long term, so you are building equity as well as a tax deduction. A car loan is a necessary evil for some, and a huge burden for others. How many folks are upside down in their car loan, and IF they happen to have an accident or NEED to sell the vehicle MOSTLY they will LOOSE $$ that usualy they do NOT have.



I've had car loans over the years, unfortunetly. Electricity and Gas you HAVE To have in your house (one or other or both). On a car, IF you do not have to have a specific truck for work (if you are a contractor or need the vehicle for supplies/product) then anything over a compact car is a CHOICE, not a necessity. If you put the extra $$ that you would spend on insurance, interest and the extra cost of a flash car/truck into a retirement account then when you turn 65 and own that house, you will NOT be like a large portion of retiree's and LIVING only on social security check to social security check.



Sorry, i'll get off my soapbox now.
 
Trep.....



A trannie cooler does not a tow vehicle make...in the famous words of Yoda!!



What style of brakes does the Kia have, what construction material...slotted disks and heavy duty pads to dissipate the heat or just regular disk? 4 wheel antilock?



What is the frame construction? Load range tires? There are a lot of other more important componants that go into a "Tow" vehicle.



Isn't it great that all of these truck owners are worried about your safety? That is what makes this site great. Nobody is backing off on a safety issue. You don't think there is one, a few others do. At least Ethan can look at all of the opinions and make an informed choice.



TOXIC
 
Time to stir the pot a little more, Trep - "anything over a compact car is a CHOICE, not a necessity." I disagree many ways but, owning a vehicke safe enough to tow is a necessity, and driving around in a compact car with children is ufortanate for many, but when I drive my family in my 3/4 ton truck it's a safety thing and not vanity.



For Ethan, not wanting to have any credit liabilities @ 24 is good, but way too conservative and not realistic. To buy everything in cash can hurt you further down the road, not to mention that the time value of money will adjust accordingly in your life as you earn more, and what you think is lot of money in payments currently will be inmaterial for you in the future. But the time value of money is a big factor. The interest you pay on various loans is mitigated by your ability to have a cushion in the form of cash and current buying power. Another factor you will need to consider is that by buying everything in cash and never financing purchases will hurt your credit rating when you want to take out a milestone loan such as a mortgage. DanJ is right on the current loans and deals on new cars lately, I just seen an advertisement for up to $9k off plus zero to low financing to purchase a new Dodge Ram.



 
Tox and Chris - First I agree 100% on safety as a priorty in vehicles and for towing. I've never suggested anything else. But, related to towing a 2000lb boat/trailer with a Minivan rated for 3500lbs, and with the appropriate towing package, I don't see the problem or safety issue. The crash ratings of the Kia (for instance) if I remember right are higher then most SUV's and Pickups, so irregardless of towing it's a VERY safe vehicle. Now on the towing part, I guess I missed the 20/20 expose' on the dangers and saftey issues with minivan as a tow vehicle?? A lot of press on some models of SUV and rollover safety - yup. BUT again we're not talking about towing a 929 with a 275 Verado pushing 4000lbs.



Chris - On the pay cash vs. credit. You'll notice I didn't suggest paying cash 100% on everything. In fact we use our credit card 98% on EVERY purchse, BUT we ONLY buy what we can afford to pay off each month. This way (along with owning 4 houses starting when I was 21) and a few carloans we have excellent credit. Yes especialy when you are young and starting out it is IMPORTANT to take a FEW key loans and pay them on-time and off early (say a 5 year car loan and pay it off in 2-3 years) to build a credit history. Are there times when you NEED something like a car or house that you can NOT afford today, and credit is a viable method. BUT you must remember to take into consideration not just "in your life as you earn more" but also that with the exception of Houses (and the occational investment vehicle) your asset purchased on credit DEPRECIATES as you pay it off. So, I guess my point is to be VERY careful which making decision to FINANCE cars and boats. Make sure you can afford it now, and in the future, and think through the worse case scenarios (like you loose your job and have to sell the boat, do you owe more then it is worth??) and do you have enough cash savings to recover for a period of time.



I am speaking from DIRECT experience, and HATE to see ANYONE loose a house, car, boat or go through bankruptcy.



Trep
 
Trep... when i said a mortgage is like a car loan. I meant it as everyone has one .So when you are planning your expenses and lifestyle. You need to take into account that if you want to live in a house and have a reliable car , and go out to dinner and going fishing in a boat, buy food ,gifts,toys, gas. etc... You most likly will have to make payments some where down the line. You dont have to buy new to be reliable also . unless you win the lotto make 6 figure income, inherit a lot. lol which reminds me i have to pay wed night lotto .... so try and budget it all. Maybe you cant afford the 40k boat and 40k car i cant either but you might be able to get the 6k car and 2k boat and be more proud then the next guy.
 
Towing a boat with a full size van might be safer from a towing perspective, but any minivan made today is safer than any of the full size vans when it comes to everyday driving. Those van designs are made pretty much the same way they were made twenty years ago. They've been tweaked over th years, but they are cash cows, and the manufacturers have not invested in them to be on par with the safest designs of today. Less safety engineering in the design.



Recently, the manufacturers have been under pressure from trial lawyers because a lot of those 8 to 15 passenger vans have proven deadly for church groups. The handling and crashworthiness flat out suck in comparsion to more modern vehicles.



To suggest that Ethan and family will be "safer" in an Econoline or Savana than in a modern minivan is absolutely wrong.



Are the big vans better tow platforms? Yes. Does Ethan need that capability? Not with his current setup. For his needs, it makes no sense to optimize the 10% of total miles spent towing at the expense of the 90% spent in regular driving situations.



 
Well, a full size van is out of the question. Again gas milage plays a factor in that one along with size (bigger than we need for the next 5 or 6 years) and above all, I'm almost positive that my wife wouldn't feel comfortable driving it.



Joe, this 6k vehicle and 2k boat that you speak of is what I was thinking of in my original post. I have a 2k (or less boat) and I was looking for a 6k vehicle to pull it that would last and be reliable with relativly low miles. I may be wrong, but I think I would have a hard time finding a 4x4 crew cab truck that would fit into that category.
 
Ya know, on a side bar, I saw at the boat show, a lund 17' Mr. Pike advertised for a monthly payment of around $200 for 180 months. That is 15 years!! That is insane! I understand people need installment loans, I have a couple car loans and mortgage, etc... but to take a loan out on a boat for 15 years is beyond my comprehension.



Rich D
 
On that same side bar Rich when I was drooling over a PT165 last year at the boat show and the guy really wanted to sell it to me he offered the same length of loan! I coudn't believe that anyone would do that!
 
I used my wife's Oldsmobile mini van for quite awhile to tow my 882 and a 901 prior to that. The mini van has a tow package rated for 3500 pounds and automatic load leveler suspension. I had zero problems towing or stopping, even traveling I75 between Ohio and Florida. After moving to Florida, my first four outtings, I had to have help getting up the sandy ramps because of the front wheel drive. Thankfully, each time there was someone around to help. I think I would have been O.K. if it had All Wheel Drive. My wife loves her mini van and I know my luck would surely run out, so I traded in my '01 Vette on a Ram 1500 Rumble Bee. It broke my heart, but I don't need help anymore.

If you get a mini van, make sure it has All wheel drive.
 
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