Tow set-up help

[Dan Nevill]

Posted: Mon May 28, 2007 8:35 pm Post subject: Tow auto vs boat ramp



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OK, today was a first for me. I lanched to yesterday and when I went to put out my auto could not go up the ramp (it is about a 12 deg. angle), I had to have a person sit on the front bumper to help me get traction.



Now I have a Nitro 640 with a 90HP, weighs about 2000# and pull it with a Mazda Tribute. The tribute has plenty of power (200hp) and is front wheel drive. I have pulled from that ramp many times and over the past year. The ramp was very wet. I also had cut 6" from the trailer to get it in the garage.



Now with this set-up like i said have never had an issue with pulling out at the ramp but it was the first time for me for this to happen during the summer. I nave some ideas and need the teams input on this on what to do.





1. Get a swing tonge on the trailer to add more length to lighted up the tonge weight and the car would be up the ramp a bit more.

3. Get a bigger tow car (cant aford one right now). I could use my Volvo S70 insted of the Tibute but is is front wheel drive but it is lower lower to the ground.

4. Get a lighter boat, got to a tin one.

5. run the tires with the lower air #setting, I currently have them at the top end 42#.

6. I also use the D gear but should I go to 1 or 2 gear. The manual says nothing on this.



Looking for all of your ideas.



Dan

 

[Bryan McDonough]

I have a 2500HD crew cab diesel. I have problems pulling out an empty trailer, boat launched, off steep wet ramps. I always get it out, just takes a lot of tire spin to get out.



I even have a locking diff. When running my BFG AT tires i never had an issue, went to the BFG long trails and started having an issue on a particular ramp on Fayette county again.



Tires with a more agressive AT tread will be the best all round investment.

 

[Jim in VA]

Dan:



Of the options you listed, probably going with an add-on swing away tongue to bring the trailer length back to original is probably something you should consider for a number of reasons. Remember, the boat/trailer was designed with that length tongue for a reason. There are a lot of places to buy the adaptors (e.g., Northern Tool has one at: http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200312036_200312036 for a 3x3 or http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_200311795_200311795 for a 3x4). At the very least, this should help keep your Mazda Tribute higher up the ramp for a better attack angle and less likelihood of sitting in the wetter slicker part of the ramp.



Some other options you may want to consider include the following:



-- Modify your attack angle. That is, if the ramp is wide enough, as you pull the boat/trailer out of the water, instead of pulling straight out, angle the tow vehicle 45 degrees from straight forward and get the vehicle moving a bit before straightening up back up and out. Of course, you need to make sure you have a wide enough ramp to do this or you may be driving the trailer off the side of the ramp!



-- Carry a traction device in your car like some sand or other commercial products like these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93163

http://www.lionsgrip.com/

http://www.tractionaids.com/products.html

http://www.flextrax.com/



Any of these will be cheaper than buying either a new boat or new tow vehicle. Since this is the first time you've had problems, it sounds more the occasional issue to deal with versus a chronic problem. Good luck!

 

[TritonGlenn]

I don't recommend towing with a FWD to anyone - for the reasons you pointed out - traction up a ramp. I watched a guy pulling a jet ski with a Honda back his jet ski into the lake, then the trailer, then the car - it just wouldn't stop - tires squeeling, burning rubber making smoke all over - then blub, blub, blub...



Your truck does have 200hp - but remember - that's made at 6000 rpm according to the manufacturer. Your tow weight is under the 85% rule (don't tow more than 85% of your vehicles weight), but the FWD kills it. I don't think more aggressive tread will help much. Slippery ramps + FWD = problems... no matter what kind of rubber you have.



Your #3 choice would be the best recommendation, followed by #1. Don't know what happened to your #2 choice :lol: , #4 is an option, but I'd prefer to swap vehicles than boats - maybe get a small used truck just for towing your boat. I don't recommend #5, especially when towing - unless you are going to deflate / inflate them at the ramp... and even then.... well... no. #6 - well... if the truck is shifting into a higher gear... then I guess... maybe drop it down. Try it. Don't know about that particular truck.



Hope you figure it out.



All the best,

Glenn



Jim has some good suggestions. We were posting at the same time.

 

[Steve Rizza]

-- Modify your attack angle. That is, if the ramp is wide enough, as you pull the boat/trailer out of the water, instead of pulling straight out, angle the tow vehicle 45 degrees from straight forward and get the vehicle moving a bit before straightening up back up and out. Of course, you need to make sure you have a wide enough ramp to do this or you may be driving the trailer off the side of the ramp!

Only problem with that is if it does start spinning, the front end will start to slide sideways down the hill.





Steve

 

[Edward Lea.]

It may be overkill but a load-leveling hitch will transfer part of the load back to the front end of your tow vehicle by not permitting any bend to occur at the hitch point. It will cause downward force on the front end slightly when set up properly. Usually only used for campers or other trailers with a lot of Tongue weight but may be the ticket for you.

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Check the tongue weight to see if you are unloading the front tires before adding a swing away on the trailer. Where did you take the 6" from? (front or rear of the trailer) also look at your tires and see if they need replaced anyway? The only draw back to towing with a FWD is the fact that they are unibody instead of frame mounted. In theory the FWD should do better because the front tires should be high and dry. The weight of the engine and trans is over the drive wheels and should be a plus.



I would like to hear all the replies on this because my sister has a Ford Escape that I can pick up cheap if it will tow my Champion?



BF

 

[Mini]

Buy American RWD or 4WD. Prob solved.

 

[TritonGlenn]

Hey Mini.... define "American" in these ages.... :lol::lol::lol:



Unfortunately, I don't think there is such a thing anymore.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I think he means...anything "other" than Japanese,Chinese,Taiwanese or any other nese:lol:

 

[TrepMan]

I was gonna say that meant just Ford or GM from a profit home, but now that Diamler sold Chysler to a US investor it is finaly back to being a US Profit company, but as Glenn said you gotta define "American" these days. Not trying to get into that arguement again!!! LOL



This is always an interesting discussion FWD vs RWD, Dan knows this is the first issue he's had and in 2 years with my Nitro i've not had one issue pulling her with my Kia van. I read on another site where some folks thought FWD would actualy be better then RWD because while the weight of the trailer tongue was on the rear of the vehicle the weight of the motor was over the wheels up front??



Trep

 

[Stan Tallant]

I'm not sure about FWD vehicles but on RWD if you go up the ramp at an angle and zigzag your way up it helps get more traction on the ground and allows you to get some momentum to boogie on up the ramp.

 

[Bill McElroy]

GM vehicles are the HIGHEST "American made content" in the industry.......avg. @ 80%. That's about as "American Made" as it gets nowadays....

 

[Mini]

You know what I meant Glenn. If you lived around here (Detroit the ex-MotorCity) you would unserstand when all of your neighbors are going bankrupt and having to sell it all. Most are moving out of state....



Dont know if you Ford guys heard.....the Windsor Engine plant closed. Remember the 351 Windsor?.....all those folks are out of work now.



I know its not America, but it shows how much it matters when you make a decision to buy from a foreign car company.



Mini

 

[Bill McElroy]

Trep,....don't put too much faith in Cerabus doing what's "right" for Chrysler,...they are an investment firm,.....NOT an automotive company and you know what that means!!?? Investment firms look out for their "investors" and they will "probably" downsize Chrysler to the point where it will eventually turn a meager profit and then they will sell their portion again!!(my prediction...5-7 yrs max!!) They know NOTHING about running an automobile company and I think the German's took the highest bidder and ran with it,....despite all their spin otherwise. IMHO, Chrysler and their employees and retirees would have been much better off if it were sold to Magna Int'l instead!! They are already VERY familiar with the auto business because it is such a huge supplier. They would've had a much deeper interest in Chrysler's long term survival than Cerabus does. Sure,..Cerabus owns 49% of GMAC too, but that's nothing more than GM's banking arm anyway....they (GMAC) just offer car loans and mortgages,....and Cerabus is a helluva lot MORE of a Bank, than they are a Auto Mfgr....just because they're a US company,...doesn't mean it's good for their workers!! IMHO.

 

[TrepMan]

Mac - You know i was surpised that A) Benz bought Chysler in the first and B) never considered it a US company once it was sold. You are probably right on Cerabus, no investment company buys something just to "keep it in country" its about making $$, thats what business is.



Hey speaking of Business, any news on the new S&T stuff coming to a BPS near you, me or China??? LOL

 

[Mini]

Start sending emails to Bass Pro Shops....that might get something going!

 

[Edward Lea.]

Man did this thread get hijacked. Did anyone give thought to my suggestion on a load-leveling hitch?

 

[Bob G.]

The load leveling hitch might be the best route if a more appropriate tow vehicle (AWD, 4WD or RWD) is not in the forecast. I think they are a few hundred bucks.



BMCD, the locking rear diff on GM trucks (G80 locker) is great if one wheel is slipping and the other has traction. Makes for nice dual black marks too. I have the rear locker also and I use Auto 4WD on some steep gravel ramps......works like a champ.



If I had to go to a light tow vehicle, I'd probably go to a lighter boat.



Bob G.

 

[Larry Harp]

YOU COULD...mount a hitch on the front and go down facing forward and then switch ends when you get to the top :wacko: . I know it sounds crazy but I've seen it done. There's an old man at one lake I fish that has the worlds biggest camper on his truck. He can't even see the lake behind him, let alone the boat....well enough to back it down. At least that why I assume he goes down forward.



It's an idea, anyway....maybe not a very good idea but it is an idea.

 

[Bob G.]

I think I would blow a gasket if I had to wait for someone to get out their traction device or hook their boat/trailer to the front hitch. I'm used to bass boat guys/gals launching and loading their boats. I lose my patience when someone takes 20 minutes at the ramp!!



Bob G.

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Bob G, You would never make it in MD, I watched with a smile I might add 2 boats tie up a ramp last Sunday. 1 the winch cable was bound up and they could not load the boat. 2 the trim would not work (master switch off) and they were grinding the skeg off. These people make me look good. I have made my mistakes, but they are still fun to watch....LOL

BF

 

[TritonGlenn]

Bob G - I used to get ticked off when "amatuers" were loading their boats - particularly the pleasure boaters that I could see taking a half hour or more to load their boats. Now, I get out of my truck, offer assistance, and (hopefully) get them on their way while teaching them a little something about their rigs. To sit there and stew in my truck on a 100 degree day just gets my blood pressure up - it's not worth it.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Mini]

great ADVICE Glenn.....the world would be a better place if more people offered their help to fellow citizens.



Mini

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I use too...until they started pissin' on me

 

[Mini]

No one likes to get pissed on. Those types dont deserve help.

 

[Larry Harp]

I love the guys who can't get their motor started so then tie up a lane on a crowed ramp to do major repairs while cussing at the wife and kids the whole time. Those are my favorites.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I do want you guys to know that the majority of time...I try to help as much as I can but, some...ya' just can't help:lol:

 

[Kenny Guess]

Also, when you start to spin trying to pull up the ramp, stop, let out some air in the tires and that usually helps a great deal.......tires grab better......kenny g.

P.S. You can let air out of the tire that is slipping or traction side only....

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I'm just trying to count how many times this thread has been hi-jacked?

I have my old FORD F-150 2wd and I don't even know the boat is there when trailering it.

I have had some problems getting out of sand or gravel covered ramps or ones with slime algae on them. I had to, one time, ask my fishing partner to put it into second gear and take it easy on the gas when I signaled him. I then got back into the boat and when I told him to go I also used the boat motor to push the truck out. I only had to push him about two feet and he got traction. He stopped while I trimmed the motor and we were fine.

I also had a place to fish that really needed a 4WD to get into, no ramp at all. So I did what Harpo was talking about. I installed a ball on my front bumper so my rear tires would remain on dry ground while launching. It worked too.

As for tying up ramps and getting help. I have seen too many times guys standing around running their mouths while someone alone was trying to get his boat back on the trailer.

I pulled into the ramp area on the Choptank River a couple of years ago and saw a man trying to get back on the trailer and he had a cast on one arm. He was getting it done but what got to me was the, "are you ever going to get out of the way" or "I have to be at work tomorrow". To his credit he remained silent and me and a friend went over to help him out and did not. That's a surprise huh?

So there, now I've hi-jacked this thread too. Dan, sorry I couldn't be more help but I'm not familiar with your tow rig. My brother tows a Lowe aluminum, 18' with a 90 h.p. motor with his Impala. He's never had a problem but did tell me he had to play around with the tongue weight. Good Luck



Uncle Billy