the ranger attitude,part3

[JEFF WHITE]

was up lake wallenpaupack,pa today.guess it was pull your boat out day as the docks at the resorts and communty developments were coming out.the public ramp gets a workout on these days. pontoon boats galore,plus the cruisers comming out also.as i waited to launch,i got to talking to a lady(nice i might add!) about the ramp and such,fishing in general,she asked me to back her truck down so her hubby can put the boat on the trailer,which i was in no hurry to put in yet,so being the nice person i am,i backed it down for her,(good deed for the day!),a few fishing boats were tying up the dock,a nitro,and a ranger.he(ranger)had his boat tied up with the motor facing the shore,why?dont know,didnt care either.heard some words being mentioned while i was standing there,not nice i might add,then seen the guy in the ranger putting his boat on the trailer,cursing real loudly over the sound of his motor,now there were ladies,and small kids present,and the nasty ones were coming out.why?because someone was parked a little too close to his trailer while he was trying to put the boat on it.the words were these out of staters cant back up they shouldnt be there tying up his ramp,was what he said!his ramp?i didnt see his name on the sighn on the way in,or ranger boats only either!this ramp can accomidate 3 big boats,while i was there 3 pontoon boats were being retrieved while i was waiting to get mine out of the water.



the lady i helped back the trailer down for looked at me and asked what was his problem?she had a 3 yr old daughter with hubby in the boat which i know she heard everything!i just said its the ranger attitude! she didnt know what that was until i explaned it to her.then she got the picture!



didnt catch any fish though,just out to run the boat with fresh gas and stabilizer through the motors.it was grrat to be out on the lake!very few waves!more wakes than waves!



oh well,now to my backup plan.small electric only lake for some walleye

 

[Larry Harp]

My Mama always told me,"There are alot more horsesasses in the world than there are horses".

 

[Staci Matheis]

There oughta be a law that says no one can have a baot that is less than 5 years old and with fewer than 1 and 1/2 dozen dings already in it. That way people wouldn't be so fussy about their pieces of fiberglass or tin.....



BTW..... The was a white Avalanche at Carlyle lake today! Mighty purty boat!



me!

 

[JEFF WHITE]

the ranger/triton/and others effect does take over the brain!it must take over for the ego of the person!or possibly the lack of confidence maybe?



i seen a guy at the launch with a pair of 300 hp mercs on his boat,a go-faster boat,he waited for others to get out of the way,backed down next to a guy with a 14ft v witha 15hp merc on the back that voted quite a dozen times,and never said squat to the guy.very nice to him,asked if he need(the 14ft boat) needed help launching it.



so sometimes it isnt the boat,or how much it costs,but the person owning the boat!there were quite a few trackers on the lake today,far more than i have seen in the past.3 nitros,at least 4 pontoon boats,and 2 aluminums i seen.and the basshawk too.old but looking good.water lice were to be found,but stayed away from the fishing boats.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Agree with Russ. Not always the boat that you are towing, but rather the nut behind the wheel.

 

[Bob G.]

Hey Scott,



Does that mean I have to put some dings in my boat to meet your approval?? I treat my truck and boat the same - I try to keep the dings to a minimum. Just ask Rob!! I drive it at WOT, but not into the ramp, pilings, docks and other structure (not yet anyways).



I help other people at the ramp as needed since I'm not usually in a hurry. I ignore the obnoxious ones. I just smile and give everybody my look - "I fish for fun and it's paid for"!!



Bob G.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

OK Scott, I can't help it. Are YOU stereotyping? Seems to me not long ago in a post title "Tritons, Champions, and Rangers oh my!" Or close to that effect, you and some others jumped ALL over me about a similar observation I made at the NBS tourney. I did not however, label it the "Ranger" attitude, but rather what I noticed was an awful lot of the Ranger owners at the NBS and Everstart had a particular attitude. Nothing against the brand at all. Now, I don't mean to stir up trouble, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you usually try to, but I don't take hyprocacy well. In fact if I recall, it was during that very same post that you said something to the effect that I never know who is reading and that I have to more or less sugar coat everything less somebody "write me off their list forever" and never tell me with respects to sponsors. Then only weeks later I see repeated posts by you doing that very thing you crucified me for, but much more flagrantly? Please.........enlighten me as to this turn of events. WHAT exactly is "the Ranger attitude" that you described to the lady at the ramp?

 

[Rob LaMoy]

OOPs, my sincerest apologies Scott. I see that Magna posted this not you. I missed that. I do genuinely apologize. That's why I got upset, thinking that you had said that. Nothing agains Magna either, I know how hem feels. I saw the original post and thought it a continuation of Scott's original. My fault, that I can admit.

Magna, I completely know how you feel, but it isn't fair to hold all Ranger owners in the same light as a few yahoos at the ramps. It was once described to me, I cannot recall by whom, but that many of them have the attitude, "hell yeah, my boat is the best, I JUST paid $45,000 for it....it had better be!" Not to say that Rangers aren't worth a little more, but $45k?.......well, that's a post for another time. But again, I have met several pros some of which are now friends that run Rangers that do not have the "attitude" at all. It all goes to the guy behind the wheel. Chances are that my experience could have been isolated and as luck would have it, the few I ran into at the tourneys happen to be jerks and the next tourney I fish might all be really awesome, super nice Ranger guys. Who knows. I do however think that somebody should have said something if this guys is hollers foul language out. I don't let people talk like that in front of my kids and have been nose to nose with college kids at Wal-Mart for such offenses. But what goes around, comes around. Someday that guy will get is just reward.

Again, Scott, sincere apologies.

 

[JEFF WHITE]

no offense taken rob.the ranger atitude round this part of Pa,is that i paid more than you did for your boat,it can run circles around you,and it looks better than yours,and dont block "my" dock,or dont fish"my" water,and ill take up 2 parking spots with my trailer because it looks better than yours does,and i paid 3 times more than you did for your rusty piece of junk.



the ladys boat was about 15 yrs old and wasnt the prettiest,but it wasnt the worst one at the ramp.i think the guy was more po'd about the pontoon boats,they were pulling docks,so maybe this guys fishing spots were being taken out of the lake or was in the process of being taken out.there were only a few water lice on the lake so that wasnt the problem,not too many go-fast boats as of the time he was there,and a 45 mph speed limit on the lake at the time.why the grief over probally something trivial?dont know.didnt really give him a 2nd look.the problem i had with him was the launguage round the ladys daughter,who lookd 3 yrs old with the scooby doo life vest on.



hey my boat aint the fastest,or the prettiest,but it is a fishing platform that gets me there,catches fish,and back to the dock! nothing more,nothing less!

 

[Greg Meyer]

I always like to "ignore" (not really) the "attitude"...and engage the "attitudeee" in a conversation about how well he did fishing... If I did better I invite him over to see the livewell or at least tell him exactly how/what I caught...Then I always close with "nice boat...too bad the fish don't care or you'd have caught a lot more than me...hahahahahah" and off I go.

 

[JAMES MOORE]

I always let my fishing do the talking. I get to laugh all the way to the bank evrytime I beat one of these guy's. You should hear them whine and all the excuses they can come up with when they can't beat a little old guy in an aluminum boat. Pay back is great.

 

[JEFF WHITE]

worst part is i wasnt in the water yet,but hey,i didnt get anything.but i usually at the end of the season well,at least the last few tanks of gas i put in use stabilizer in the fuel,to be sure the motors have it in for sure,plus mix a little extra oil in the tank for good measure.



just out for the day to enjoy the day.all by myself,to just play,take a nice slow ride round the lake,checking out the fider for possible places to fish later on,mark a few gps waypoints and such.



oh yea,payback is great!was at a lake that was having a bass tournament,i was fishing for eyes,the looks i got that day from the people was priceless,getting the net out,them seeing the fish i was pulling in was priceless!the tournament director was the last to leave the ramp that day,he said not too many got limits,but he seen me pull in a nice 3 fish bag of walleyes,and release 4 more,he seen the others in the tournament commenting on me fishing,trolling long line with worm harness,and he spoke up and said the lake is for everyone to use,so if you have a problem with it,dont fish our tournaments! i was shocked!there were rangers,tritons,nitros and a few aluminum boats with no brand names on them!



a friend of mine is in the club as a member and i almost joined it,but i didnt.had other things on my plate at the time.thought about joining it.



oh well,sometimes the persons ego gets in the way of there better judgement!



or they just dont know any better!!

 

[Pierre Voisine]

This sort of thing is common everywhere....my dad is better than your dad starts really young and seems to continue for some people for a long time. we really can

 

[gone bye bye]

God bless Pierre.....we all need to look at the big picture every now and again. I have been beat to death in these parts when I got on board with Nitro. EVERYONE of them had never even seen my boat (911 the first year) let alone ridden in it, but these days the attitude is changing.



I see the same thing in pleasure craft, sailboats and trucks.....



Mini

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Pierre is so right. I'm reading a book now called "raising boys" my Dr James Dobson. One of the topics is the competitive nature of boys and men. You don't see women in a fist fight at the mall parking lot over who's minivan is the best. Like Pierre said we all need to happy we even own a boat. I look back just a few years to when I owned a 14' grumman with 7.5 merc on it. It did the trick, but I was aching for a shiny bassboat with a 150. The guy that thinks he's better because he runs a 45k boat has to think that way because he obviously isn't a good enough fisherman to compete, so he competes with his dollars. IMO

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Hey Rob, don't want to open another can of worms but isn't that Dobson charchter the one that advocates spanking your kids? With your history, I would of thought that you would be on the opposite side of that issue. Just curious...



TOXIC

 

[TrepMan]

I remember fishing in Galveston TX out of my 14 ft jon boat with a 5hp Mariner. I've said before this little boat was RIGGED! 2 seats, battery, wired lights, livewell with aerator, rod holders and the like. We'll I kept putting in at this one ramp and got to know the folks working the baitstore. This one guy, about 5-8 years younger than I, one day speaks up and says "nice little boat, but maybe one day you'll get to ride in a REAL boat like mine!" He had a new 21ft Center console with a 150hp on the back. Now at this point i'm driving my wifes new S10 Extended cab and making a good living at 27 years old owning my own home. So, I look him in the eye and say:



Me- "Well, I bet our boat shares 2 of the 3 things I find important in a boat".



He says " what are those things?"



Me - "It floats"



He - "mine too"



Me - "it allows me to catch fish"



He - "mine too"



Me - "it's PAID FOR!"



He - "uhh, maybe in 10 years!"



I just putted off to fish and brought back 7 NICE flounders 2 hours later.



It's all about fishing. Don't get me wrong, i'd LOVE a 21fter back then and even NOW, but everyone has priorities and I find fishing like a fraternity, just want to meet great folks!

 

[Mark Hofman]

Tox:



There is a difference between spanking and beating. I got spanked. (And when fishing, I still tend to get spanked!)



A pop on the behind now and then to get a kids attention doesn't necessarily hurt them. Forgetting to tell them that you still love them in spite of their behavior? That hurts them.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Toxic, he does and I support it too. I'm all for controlled discipline. I will spank my kids when warranted and don't want to hear a peep from the welfare dept saying it's abuse. Scripture says......well you know. Spare the rod, spoil the child, and what do you get? Today's teens shooting one another with no respect for authority. I won't ever beat my children but a good swat in the pants will get their attention if they get too far out of line. James Dobson says, and I agree that it is the selfish parent that won't properly discipline their child because it makes you feel uncomfortable too. Hence the saying, "this is going to hurt me more than it is you". As a parent we never want to hear our kids cry or be unhappy. But that is neccessary in punishment to keep them from causing themselves and ultimately us the parents much more anguish as adults when they go to prison because the line was never clearly drawn for them as children when their ideals and morals were being formed. That is a hot topic and my wife and I are often on the opposite ends of the debate.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I knew this would be a "touchey" subject since most of us are family men and some of us have had a rocky road. Let me first say that I don't have ANYTHING against someone using "corporal punishment" (politically correct terminology nowadays) on their kids. Personally, I got my fanny tanned quite often as a kid but when the cowboy belt came out I think that crossed the line. I have raised 2 kids (a boy 20 and a girl 5) without ever so much as laying a hand on them. I too read a book long ago that made it perfectly clear to me that hitting, spanking, beating, or whatever term you want to use for using physical force on your kids is just not acceptable. Physical force teaches kids everything negative and absolutely nothing positive. Period. Believe it or not it has been the toughest with my little girl, she has her mother's personality (yeah right) and communicating to her that she is not the boss without force is VERY difficult. I have searched for the positive effect of spanking and with an open mind cannot find one good reason and therefore committed myself not to do it under any circumstance. So far, I am very happy with my decision. It is very difficult, but I am happy. To each his own.



TOXIC

 

[Ken Neeley]

TOXIC,

If your daughter has the genetic disposition that you do I wouldn't dare get my hand near her butt...you could pull back a flaming stump!!!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Ken,



Unfortunatly she inherited that one intertwined gene, that one mixed up DNA, that kink in the linneage that makes her very dangerous. Difference between me and her is that she can do it at will. Thank god she doesn't play with matches. Actually I think that it will come in handy keeping her "daddy's girl" forever. Everytime she brings a date home, I'll just tell her to show them her "special talent" and chances are I'll never see them again...LOL



TOXIC

 

[Chad Justice]

I don't have kids yet, but I'm getting to the point that I want to.. I got my hind end busted on more than one occasion when I was growing up, and it usually served it's purpose. Especially at my dad's house, because there were clear lines that were drawn and we always knew before we did something whether or not it was a 'whoopin' worthy' offense. And, trust me, we were more likely to go on and do the stuff that would just put us in the doghouse than the stuff that would get our butts busted...



Looking at the difference between my dad and my mom, though, I think the key is to make sure the line is clearly drawn before acting upon the infraction.. With my mom, we'd get a punishment that was directly related to her mood... Something you got away with last week might be a mortal sin next week!! So, we pretty much did whatever and left the rest up to her. Let the chips fall where they may, fair or not. : With my dad, the punishment reflected the 'crime', as it should be IMO..



That said, I'll prolly try to emulate that as closely as possible, most likely whoopins and all.. I've got A LOT of my mom's temperament, though, so it's not gonna come as easy as I imagine it did for my Dad. I've learned a lot about myself lately, and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that if I'm gonna have a successful marriage and a happy, healthy family, I'm gonna have to be BETTER than I was often raised to be. It's a long row to hoe, but I'm trying everyday.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

You said it man. Each generation writes their own book. I'm glad I have that chance.

Toxic, you're a genius! I hadn't thought of that. I'll teach my daughter the fine art of flatulence (sp?). That's sure to keep the boys away! Brilliant! That in conjuncture with her taxidermy hobby, deadly markmanship with a pistol and 3rd degree blackbelt ought to just about do the trick. But just for added measure I will take the young lads out for a "hunt"! LOL Who here has teen age daughters? What's your method?

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I'm not trying to advocate spanking or not spanking, I HONESTLY approached it with an open mind and could not find a positive reason to spank. Most often spanking is a way for YOU the adult to vent your frustration and doesn't help the kids. You did what I told you not to do, now I am going to hit you. You disobeyed me, now I am going to hit you.



Little johnny won't go out in the street.

Spanking: Because he is afraid he will get spanked if he does.

Not spanking: Finding a way to communicate to little Johnny that you fear for his safety. And it's dangeruos. Make him understand why, that's a lot harder than just saying if you do I'm going to hit you...be a parent and teach. Do you really think that any kid under the age of 6 UNDERSTANDS why they are getting spanked. They just don't want to get hit so they comply.



If it is ok for you to hit your child, when is it ok for them to hit you. Never? Are you a hypocrite or just setting a doublestandard. Why doesn't daddy hit Mommy when she does something wrong? Hitting may accomplish a short term goal but does it the wrong way. It makes kids agressive. It makes kids fear you....not respect you....It says that it's ok to hit. There are other ways. With little kids there's distraction and substitution. You can set boundries and enforce them on older kids without hitting. Nothing PO's my daughter more than when she loses it and I don't. It's personal choice and as soon as someone shows me (be it Dobson or anyone else) something that they can accomplish by spanking that I can't by not spanking, then I'll change my opinion. And remember, it's just my opinion, I have absolutely nothing against those who choose to spank.



TOXIC

 

[Mark Hofman]

Blindly beating on a child, or repeated blows, don't work. But I've seen parents who, after trying to hold a conversation with a screaming, flailing child, have whacked them once on the behind and the kid stops.



Talking to a child only works if they are in control and are able to listen. Spanking, to me, is a last resort when removing them from the situation or relocating them to a more private area isn't possible.



The best disciplining method I have ever witnessed was a single mom who let natural consequences do the disciplining. She'd offer the child choices and, if the kid made a bad choice, the mom would let them experience the result (insofar as it wouldn't put them in physical danger). Her daughter once refused to put her shoes on before they went shopping. Problem was that there was 4" of snow on the ground. She let the daughter walk through the snow to the car without shoes on. Two minutes later, the daughter said, "Mommy, my feet are cold." Mom replied, "I'm sure they are. Mine would be too if I didn't wear shoes." "Mommy, can I put my shoes on now?" "You bet. That sounds like a good choice. Let me help you, and let's put on some dry socks, too." She never had a problem with putting shoes on when mom asked after that.



Another example:



Mom: You need to finish your Happy Meal.

Child: (nothing)

Mom: We're leaving in two minutes. There are two ways you can go - hungry or not hungry. I'll be anxious to see what you choose.

Child: (nothing)

Mom: (tosses the Happy meal away two minutes later)



Later, in the car....

Child: Mommy, I'm hungry.

Mom: I'll bet you are. I'd be hungry to if I didn't eat my lunch.

Child: Can I have some candy?

Mom: No, but dinner will be later today. You can eat then.

Child: But I'm hungry.

Mom: And you chose to not eat your lunch when you had the chance. I'm sorry you made that choice, but we aren't eating again until supper.

 

[Texas Transplant]

How bout' we get back to Boats N Bassin!



This is far too serious of a subject to reflect on here.



Tex

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I totally agree MOfish. No where in your examples was there hitting. But by hitting a hysterical kid I don't think you solve anything. I've had my daughter in the store and she pulled that and I picked her up, took her out and let her sit in the car until she got ahold of herself. I think the key is to "nip it in the bud" before that. And this is not too deep TT---I value the opinions expressed here and if someone can help me better prepare the fishermen and women of tomorrow I'm all for it. Life is not all laughs and those of us who are parents carry an unbelievable responsibility. As Rob and anyone else that has kids will relate, they are the #1 consideration in our lives. In respect to the board though, this is getting long and should be put to bed. No more posts from me, back to the hyjinks.



TOXIC

 

[TrepMan]

As a parent of 2 young boys let me say (as Scott knows)my boys are 100% BOYS - I agree with TOXIC that this is a very personal subject and also needs to be balanced with the skills of each parent and the specific needs of each child. What works for my 5 yearold (even when he was 3) does not work for my current 3 yearold and vice-versa.



The only thing i'll add is in regards to TOXIC's comment, realise this is out of context, "If it is ok for you to hit your child, when is it ok for them to hit you. Never? Are you a hypocrite or just setting a doublestandard. Why doesn't daddy hit Mommy when she does something wrong? " One thing That i agree with Dr. Laura (like all pop-talk-show hosts I agree with portions not all of her advice) is that our job as Parents is NOT to be our kids best friends, our JOBS are to be PARENTS!! As such we need to set the boundaries and rules that TEACH the children how to best behave, learn, grow and mature into good ethical/moral adults in society. This requires of as Parents to make hard decisions (that we've all said above hurts us more then them) to teach them.

 

[Staci Matheis]

You've only got two little boys?

Beka says she's got three.....

 

[TrepMan]

Scott - I stand Corrected! She DOES have 3 little boys!!!



By the way, how did the Ranger Attitude turn into spanking/raising kids?

 

[Chad Justice]

Didn't you hear, Trep?? ALL Ranger owners beat their kids.. It's a proven fact.

 

[Mark Hofman]

Rob brought up Dobson and "competitive boys". Toxic commented on Dobson advocating spanking. I made a comment about spanking versus abuse. It went downhill from there.

 

[JEFF WHITE]

boy,i didnt expect this to go this far,and to go about beating(spanking) your kids.but while were on the subject for a few,in my day even in school they spanked the kids,no hesitation at all at it.now these days,its called child abuse!some kids ive seen need a good beating.but there are some parents of the kids are the ones who need the beating!we just had a mother who starved and beat her 18yr old mentally challenged(slow is what the call it now) kid.he dies in florida after they kicked him out and told him to find his father!



as i have always said,some people shouldnt breed!!



back to the ranger post,i think the people who own rangers are out to win at no cost,why?its the boat!it has to be.i spent 14 grand on mine,so what?if i entered a tournament with all those expensive sparkly rangers and won,now wouldnt that be a kick in there behind!

 

[Steven Atwell]

Russ us right. I think what the real issue is, is that crappy bass fisherman think they will be good if they buy a nice rig. That, and people will think they are good, which to these unskilled fishermen is just as good or better. That's their goal, to change people's impressions of them. They want what the pros have.



Haven't you seen the rich young highschool kids whose parents have bought them a brand new 'Vette or 'Stang? Same thing. Can they win NASCAR races? Hell no, but they think everyone will believe they can.



Another analogy. Little punks who get a cheap used Honda Civic and put NOS stickers and racing logos on it, along with the coffee can exhaust pipe for noise, and finally neon lights under the undercarriage. Are we really to believe that there is a roughNtough guy in there who could blast past us in a street race....that is if we had the guts to mess with a crazed killer who could wack us without a single forethought....................PUUUUHHHLEASE. We all know these 90 pound kids are just looking to fill the voids in their personality. You couldn't look straight into their eyes without them getting scared and driving off at the 50mph max they can pull out of their rig.



Same with incompetent bassfishermen, empty personalities.

 

[Bill McElroy]

A-holes will be A-holes no matter what they buy, borrow or steal,.......it doesn't make any difference! It's genetic!

That guy in the Ranger ranting and ravin' at the ramp would've done that in a Canoe if that's what he had at the time.....it's an individuals "choice" to act that way...not a result of his/her purchase.

 

[TrepMan]

ROTFLMAO Steve!!!



I LOVE hitting stoplights in my Merc Station wagon when one of thos NOS honda's come up (as long as it's not the new S2000). I rev those 200 horses a bit and get the going, light turns green (and assuming it's a straight road with no traffic and the kids are not with me) i enjoy them seeing my tailights till I hit the speedlimit!



Oh, and 'cause it says so on the side of MY boat, its Crappie Fisherman not Crappy Fisherman LOL!!!!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Wait just a cottin pickin minute!! I cannot and will not buy into the notion that "You are what you drive". One of life's hard learned lessons for me was to always buy the BEST that you can afford. Whether it be cars, boats, shotguns, bows, rods, reels, and on and on. I plunked down big $$ for my 929, why?, because I guide and I did my homework. IF that homework had told me a Triton or a Ranger was the best value for my $$ then I would have bought one. And no, I wouldn't have been standing on the ramp making an @ss outta myself because I did buy a Triton or a Ranger. I think we can all agree not to paint one brand of boat owner with a broad brush. The most important thing is not to havwe some pre-concieved notion about ANYBODY (otherwise no one would talk to Rob LOL).



TOXIC

 

[Bill McElroy]

You got THAT right!!!...LOL

 

[Chad Justice]

I'm gonna paint my motor outboard hood yellow and put some NOS stickers on it.. I think it might help me shave a second or two off my plane-off time.. What people fail to understand is that it's not hardware that gives you added power; it's the stickers you get WITH the hardware. And we ALL know that yellow is the color of speed.. I figure the yellow/sticker combo should net around 25HP to the prop.



BTW, I saw a picture of an old Honda civic -- painted yellow, of course -- the other day that had Acura badging, a big neon yellow Honda logo "H" on the back window, and a TRD sticker on the side.. TRD = Toyota Racing Development... I guess it was a Toyacunda.. Or an Acurondota? Hontoyura? Talk about an identity crisis!! Sheesh..

 

[TrepMan]

CM - saw a very similarly interesting one yesterday - A late 90's Ford Taurus with the Acura Integra Type-R badging along with the Ford ones. So is this a AcOrd, Fura??? Oh and yes it did have the NOS stickers though it was factory blue.

 

[JEFF WHITE]

unfortunately i see them little rice burners with the 4 inch pipe out the back.some of them actually think they have 5,000 hp dragsters!



but you also have to love the stereo systems they have in them,sitting in my house with the road 30 ft away from it,i hear it clear as if its in the house!the ear splitting rap music that vibrates the rear windows.