Question for Ford/Towing folks...

[TrepMan]

OK Momma is starting to look at minivan's again. So i've started checking tow capacities, and found a very strange thing on the Ford website (http://www.fordvehicles.com/Cars/windstar/features/specs/) that all 4 "models/trim levels" of the Windstar has the exact SAME 3.8l V-6 at 200hp and 240ft lb of torque. BUT the 2 lowest models ( LX/SE ) are only rated at 2000lbs towing and the 2 highest models ( SEL/Limited) are rated to 3,500 with the towing package.



So, my question is I doubt that Ford does anything different in the unibody/frame on these 4 vans and would also assume the higher level models are Heavier (captains chairs, more extras...). SO what's up ? I understand the towing package adding capabilities (a trany cooler for instance) but why would the lower levels with a towing package not tow the same 3,500 lbs?



Now, I know even at 2000lbs my 175 is just fine, but unless this one get's totaled the next van will be a 5-7 year minimum keeper, and larger TIN boats may come when the boys are older.



Any ideas???

 

[Texas Transplant]

How the bumper/tow connection hooks to the car, would be one of the factors (size, strength, etc.). Tires, another?? Radiator package another.



Tex

 

[TrepMan]

Tex - The hitch on all the vans are tied directly to the frame so I don't think that would change it. Tires does change in size/aspect ratio on the higher trim levels. Radiator - good point, let's see if some Ford guys can tell if there are physical changes.



My view seems to be that manufacturers keep looking for ways to get us buyers to spend more $$ on vehicles. So if they can tell a minivan buyer "if you want to tow over 2000lbs you MUST buy the $3-9k higher level vans". I find it interesting since the other van's we've had/looked at (Honda, Toyota, GM) that have only one engine like the Ford all have the same tow ratings.



Good points though.

 

[fatrap]

Just a guess but the higher dollar unit may have a towing package installed. ie transmission cooler etc.

fatrap

 

[Jim B]

do the higher buck ones have air bag suspension or anything like that? suspension is a major factor on tow ratings.

 

[TrepMan]

Fatrap - On thier website Ford only shows the Towing package as options on the higher $$ units, but why would you not be able to add the package (i.e. cooler) to the lower models?



Jim B - Good question, looking on the Ford site all 4 versions have the same suspension/chassis setup. Infact EVERY single specification/capacity with the Exception of Towing is the same.

 

[Steven Atwell]

I was going to also say radiator and transmission cooler. A towing package bolt on is also something. The big brackets go up price quickly as you get higher rated models.

 

[Dave Muniz]

It could be that the lower cost vans come out of a different factory that is not tooled to install the tow package and other trim level accessories you would get. (I'm guessing here). That is if you are going to get the tow package from the factory. If you got the same accessories aftermarket (hitch, trans cooler, hd radiator, hd alternator and battery) then the only thing left is the springs. I doubt they use different ones for the different trim levels.



Just my thoughts.



BTW, my wife has a 93 Mercury Villager that is rated for 3500# towing capacity and I would not tow my TX Tournament 17 with it ever again. It has a 3.0 liter V6 not sure of the hp ot torque ratings but it struggled to pull that boat. I think it would weigh in at less than 2000#.



Dave

 

[TrepMan]

Dave - We had the 92 Villager, that 3.0 liter v6 had just 151hp and only 174 ft lbs of torque. My wife did not like the performance at all. Though it rode very nice and had the BEST fitting/comfortable seats in ANY minivan we've driven to date!!



Our 99 Honda pulled like a champ, and the Ford has the 3.8 ltr 200hp v-6 which is very strong!

 

[Kraig Clement]

I have 2 words..... Grand Caravan!!!!!!

 

[TrepMan]

Sorry Kraig - My wife has driven the Dodge/Chysler ones, including a friends 2003 T&C LXI, she does not like/fit the front seats well. The Ford, Honda and Kia right now are the front runners. The only problem with the Ford is that we've YET to find a reputable Ford/Merc dealer in our area. We've been thru 3 in the last few years ALL have tried to overcharge us big time!!!

 

[fatrap]

I guess I would go to a Ford dealer and talk to a service representive. They're the one who have to fix the things. The salesmen generally can't remember if they're at a Ford dealership or the chevy dealership they worked at last week or the Dodge dealership before that.

My experience with them is they are pretty sharp no matter what species of van you like. My neighbor pulls his 16 foot Larson fish and ski with a Ford Winstar no problem.

fatrap

 

[Jr. Dunn]

I wasn't even going to say anything but can't help it.

My wife has a 2003 Windstar and I wouldn't think of hooking my boat up to it. It has plenty of power but I can't imagine trying to pull my boat up some of the steep ramps I've seen with front wheel drive!!!???????

I can't believe that would work very well at all.



Buy a truck. FORD!

 

[Keith Wilson]

Check transmission options. Overdrive lockout ?

 

[Dan J.]

Trep - I got my wife a 2002 Windstar LX last August and ,so far, have had no problems other than a speaker mounted on the sliding door came unplugged. My wife has put almost 20K miles on it and I've towed my hunt buggy on a 5' X 12' single axle trailer back and forth many times to my property in White Plains without a glitch. (Not even the slightest rise in temp.) I'm a Chevy man through and through, but I gotta give this one a thumbs up. Can't help on the spec. differences. Makes no sense.

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Trep do they upper end ones come factory with ride height control? I did not see it anywhere in the spec sheet the only thing I noticed was traction control (optional vs Standard) And when you read what the towing package includes Heavy duty alt and trailer wireing.. I would think any off the vans would be OK you will just have to put a hitch and wireing kit on.



BF

 

[TrepMan]

Jr - Dave's right, we're talking at least in my boat maybe 15-1600lbs. I pulled it for 3 years with the Honda and it worked like a champ, never had the traction control even try to kick in!!



Dave - As to the Honda vs. the Windstar, as was said in the Truck post it's very much preference. The Honda has been the fastest best handling minivan (never thought you'd hear THOSE 2 words with a minivan) around. Toyota is trying to trump them with the new HUGE Sienna! WE loved the Honda and primarily bought it 3 years ago over the Windstar due to our very poor experience with Ford Dealers and the STELLAR quality/longevity of Honda products (was my first Honda since my very first car - a 75 honda Civic!). Every thing worked great on the Honda and it realy had no clue my 175 was back their when towing. The primary reason for even considering anything else right now is cost! Honda is not offering ANY cash back on the Odyessy while everyone else is offering (except Toyota) $2000 - $4000 cash back, or 0% financing. If I had the 28k cash i'd get the Odyessy EXL (leather and DVD video system) but with a new house I want my cash costs at $20 or less. We're looking both new and 1-2 year old. The Honda's depreciate ZIP!! Check Carmax.com and look at 1-2 yearold Hondas then EVERYTHING else, nothing even close in depreciation. So if you want the Honda there is ZERO incentive NOT to buy New.



I did not love the dash/layout of the Honda, WAY too plain/boring to me. I love the Ford and Dodge ones though. Seat feel/comfort was the other deciding factor for my wife, 5'5" so she needed power seats that fit her and the GM and Dodge products did not. The loaded Windstar was $4k MORE then the Honda so we picked the Honda.



Any other questions, just drop me an email, don't want to bore/bother these Truck guys with lowly Minivan talk!!! LOL

 

[Bob G.]

Yea, we have a mini-van that my wife drives, but I'd rather not talk about it! What will it tow? Who cares!! They are designed for moms and their screaming brats to go to their events in life and to use as a giant garbage can for the remnants of their traveling snacks and juice box straw wrappers! My wife disagrees with me cause she's in denial!!



Bob G. (always incognito when traveling in the mini-van!!LOL)

 

[TrepMan]

I'll tell ya what thier good for besides towing TIN Bob - siting in the second row watching Indian Jones while the lighting storm is raging and i'm waiting at the ramp!!! LOL

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Now there is a concept.. It to rough to fish lets sit in the nice dry van and watch dvd's.... Thats what I like about my extended cab F150.. I cuss it everytime I back it in at a tight ramp..But if it ever gets to cold or wet I always know I can lay back the seat and nap..

BF

 

[Rich Stern]

Trep, I suspect the higher tow rating on the two models relfects transmission cooler and increase spring rates, or possibly even a load leveling system in the rear axle. That's how the Chryco tow package comes on their minivans, and they have the same 2000/3500 pound lineup.



Sorry, can't agree the Honda handles better than the Chryco minivans. The Honda is an excellent vehicle, and I give a slight edge to it's V6 over the ChryCo V6, but not in handling.



I have never been a fan of the Windstar.



Incentives are great right now. Saw a very loaded 2003 T&C LXi advertised for $25K and change, including rear seat video system, MSRP normally over $34K. You won't be able to touch that type of deal with a Honda or Toyota, but the Kia incentives are good right now, too.



Any chance of talking her into an Explorer or Expedition? THOSE are good tow vehicle and family haulers.

 

[TrepMan]

Rich on the handling just going by seat of the pants feel from driving both as well as Motor Trend and Car/driver reviews.



Agree 100% of the incentives, she does not like the Chryslers so those are out. Don't know if we'll do new or used, depends on the deal and the vehicle in stock. Plan is to wait till July to start realy looking.



No way on the Explorer or Expedition, while she wants the 3rd row seats and 2nd row captians chairs (which both the Explorer or Expedition offer now) she wants the sliding doors of the van and the better gas mileage. Now I know the V-6 Explorers have the same mileage as the V-6 Vans (18 city/23-24 highway) but there is a lot more storage space in the vans. Funny when she bought the Dodge Ram in '96 it was her "mommy mobile" because she HATED the look/image of a minivan. But having had 2 so far she misses them. The ride, space, layout and such.



We'll see.



Thanks for everyone's input on the difference, i'm still not convinced that its not just a ploy to get me to spend more $$ on the higher level model.

 

[Steve Rizza]

Trep,I remember hearing alot of bad reports on the Windstar transmissions a few years back.Maybe they fixed them on the new models,but you may want to look into it.



P.s. I am a proud mini-van owner.I had to talk the wife into one six years ago,and now were on our second one with many more to come.

 

[TrepMan]

Steve R. - I did realy have to push Beka into the first one (Mercury Villager) she kept driving Honda Accord wagons, and when i'd say "and where are the two 50lb dogs gonna ride on the 2 day trip to your folks with the kids in the back seat and all our luggage/strollers/porta-cribs in the back???" it was easy!!!



She's been on the computer the last hour comparing reviews, prices (both initial, rebates, total cost of ownership, fuel mileage...). Had not heard about the Windstar trany's, though had to replace the ford trany on my Sable at 75,000!