Need Troubleshooting help: Electrical issues

[William Johnson]

Hi,

Looking for some input on a problem I have and will try to explain it the best I can. I would not make a good mechanic and its my first boat, so I apologize for my lack of terminology. Boat is going to shop on Tuesday for checkup, but this is bugging me and I want to maybe get an idea of what is going on here before Tuesday.



Here goes....



Hooked all positive and negative leads off motor and accessories to battery. The battery is fully charged. Tested lights, bilge pump, horn, etc. everything here is fine. Tested 2 trim/tilt points, up/down button on front bow and up/down switch on gear shifter...nothing is happening. I was told a third trim/tilt point should be on the motor, but I have yet to find it.

I wan't to concerned at this point, but then I tried to bump the motor, nothing happens, not even a hint of a start came from the motor. Now I am real concerned so I start tracing wires, looking at fuses, etc.

Located 20Amp fuse on side of motor, it is good.

Used a voltage tester and showing 12v going into starter.

I traced the trim/tilt motor wiring(1 blue and 1 green) into what I believe are two relays, these are shown in the picture below inside the white box. The two red wires also going into the relays are coming of the positive terminal on the starter. Pull relays apart and verified voltage coming across the contact parts of the red wires.



This is as far as I went. Pretty much a dummy here being curious.



Have I given you anything here to help you all give me some input. The problem to me seems to be electrical. Is it odd that I'm not able to trim/tilt or get a single crank from the engine, or is it definately related? I sure hope someone out there with maintenance background or even someone who ran into this problem can relate any info to me. It would be very much appreciated.



Heres the pic.

William Johnson

www.iAuctionExpress.com

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Lets start with the basics first, what type of boat are your running and what size Merc? Maybe most important did you check the kill switch to see if it was on or off? Depending on the engine size there should be a up/down switch on the engine on the right hand side if standing behind it just below the cowl. Looking at the pic, it may be a smaller engine and have it in the splash well instead. You had 12v at the starter when you turned the key? If so have someone turn the key while you tap (not hit) the started, it may have a bad spot. BUT even though you show 12v does not mean you have the amps needed, if the 2 are related I am thinking bad ground or dirty connections? Might try another battery? Could show 12v and still be shorted out when it comes to high amp service?

BF

 

[William Johnson]

Hi,

Boat is a 98' Nitro 800 LXS with a Mercury Force 120 HP. Kill switch was in on position during troubleshooting, it is located below the cowl as you indicated. Haven't check 12V to the starter but now have somewhere else to check and will do that. Tried this battery in another boat and it worked fine, also had pulled my Diehard out of my jeep with no luck. As far as the kill switch and 12V to the starter though, my concern is that even without these two being negative, I should still at least have the ability to tilt/trim, right? I'll post back later with the results using your advice.



William

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Does the trim switch work on the eng work? If not I would remove the ground cable from the eng and clean that connection good. If you have some one to turn the key while you hold the volt meter, Take you red lead and place it on the batt + and the black to the eng and you should have batt volt? Now have someone try the trim or crank and see what the volt meter does. If it does nothing then the problem is in the wireing between the eng and controls, if it drops a lot then it's probably a bad connection between the eng and the batt?

BF

 

[Steve Rizza]

William,

your tilt/trim and the power to the starter is on one thick cable.All the other accessories will be on smaller gauge wiring.That is why everything else will work,but not your starter or tilt/trim.



The positive cable should go from the battery to the starter selonoid (in the bottom right of picture,with the red "boot").

Where the positive cable from the battery connects onto it,there should be two red wires hooked onto the same post.

Those two wires go up to the two trim selonoids (what you have boxed in the photo).

The other positive cable coming off of the other post of the solonoid,goes to the positive side of your starter.



You should always have power to the battery side,and only have power to the starter side when you hit the key.



And your neg cable from the battery should be hooked directly to the neg side of the starter.





Now,

since neither your starter,or tilt/trim works,it is either not getting ground,or not getting power to where the cable hooks onto the positive post of

the selonoid (where the red boot is).



Assuming your battery is good,(if it is weak your starter may not work,but trim should work SLOWLY),you need to start by cleaning both terminals.Use sandpaper or emery cloth so everything is shiny.

Next figure out which post on the solonoid goes to the battery,and which goes to the starter.

Do the same with the side that goes to the battery,(or both)



Now do where the neg cable hooks onto the side of the starter.





And you are correct,the trim will work whether the safety switch is off or on,whether the key is off or on.The trim is basically hotwired straight to the battery.

Even if that starter solonoid is bad,the trim gets it's power before it goes through the solonoid.



One question,did it just start doing this,or did you buy the boat like this or what ?

Just so we know that somebody didn't booger up the wiring somewhere along the way.



Steve

 

[William Johnson]

Thanks Steve,



Here is where I am at now.



All cables are exactly as you described. I have power to the battery side of solenoid, but am not getting power to starter side when I hit the key. The neg cable from battery is not hooked to neg side of starter, it is going to bolt on engine block.



Battery is new and charged 100%. Terminals are clean and shiny.



Jumpered 12V to tilt/trim motor, worked great.

Jumpered 12V to starter bypassing solenoid, starter cranked and engaged flywheel.



A fella posted over at iBoats.com with this exact same problem. Loss of start and trim/tilt. Turned out he had a bad starter solenoid. Trim/Tilt started working also. Someone mentioned the relays coming off starter solenoid. I am not totally convinced the trim/tilt and starting circuit is totally separate, but I am also a dummy. What are the chances of losing both at the same time, and other people experience the exact same thing.



Boat was bought recently but there were no issues with the engine start or trim/tilt.



Thanks for the input.



William

 

[William Johnson]

Thanks Bruce.

I have no trim swith on the eng. Shows one in the manual, but really there is not one, just a plastic covering where it would be.

Are you refering to the ground cable from the battery to engine? Appears like there has never been a wrench put on it. If it has never been taken off in the past is it possible the connection needs cleaned? It is tight as can be. If it is worth the effort I'll try that too. But I also now know I am not getting voltage out of my solenoid.



Thanks for the tips.



William

 

[Steve Rizza]

I cannot see where the starter solonoid being bad would effect the trim.The trim gets it's power off of the side that is hot all of the time,the same post even.(but I have seen stranger things happen)



What I would do is to pop off one of the trim relays (the boxes in your photo). Check where the red wire comes in for power,it should have power all the time.



If it has power coming into it,then I would start checking around the throttle assembly.

It almost seems like there is no "control" power coming into either the trim or starter solonoids.

Like a blown fuse,or your harness from the throttle box,for the key and trim switch came loose.

I believe the trim switch on the bow just taps into the switch on the throttle,then back to the motor.



Is this making any sense ??:wacko:

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Did you check for voltage as I suggested between the eng and the batt the way I sugessted? It can also be done with a test light. Hook the test light to the pos batt terminal and touch the block to see if you have a good ground. Even if the bolt is tight it could have corrosion at the connection and not makeing contact.



BF

 

[Steve Rizza]

Forgot to mention,

you should hear a "click" from the trim solonoids when you hit the button.If you don't then I would think you're not getting the "control" power.

Then it's back to the switch,.....and with the starter not getting power,it's back to the key.



And with both at the same time,I would be back at the harness or fuse.





Or I could be way off base and totally wrong...:huh:



Steve

 

[mike chip]

i would pull the negative off and clean it real good and make sure it is getting a good ground.

 

[Steve Rizza]

Ok,

now this is really bugging me..:wacko:



I went out and took the cowling off and started poking around with a tester.I unhooked everything but the cables running to the motor from the battery.



I found the same 20 amp fuse on the side of the motor,and everything does exactly as you describe when I unplugged it.

No power to the throttle box,,,,so no trim,starter,or warning beep when the key is turned.



Now back to testing the fuse (sometimes they don't appear to be bad),test it with your tester,....... test the wire coming into it.....,test the fuse holder, etc....



Or just put in a new fuse and try it..



It has to be that fuse...or no power coming into the fuse..:wacko:

 

[Steve Rizza]

I am curious as hell to find out what the problem is.Let me know what they find out.



Steve

 

[Andre Sloan]

I had this exact problem on my 120 Tracker Force (1997) Here is what mine was.



On the back of the motor there is a thick black cable (about 3/8") running up and down. There is a Cannon plug in the middle of it. It is secured with a wire clip on each end. This is where I was losing contact. Unplug it, and plug it firmly back together. I put some tape on it to help hold it, and have not had the problem since.