Ford is in DEEP do-do too!!

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Bill McElroy

Bill McElroy

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FORD EXPECTED TO ANNOUNCE CLOSURE OF 10 ASSEMBLY PLANTS, ELIMINATION OF 30,000 JOBS .... According to a story in the Detroit News, Ford Motor Co. executives will present a restructuring plan to the company's board of directors today that calls for closing at least 10 assembly and component plants and eliminating 25,000 to 30,000 hourly jobs in North America within five years.



The cuts would be deeper than many had expected, signaling the urgency of Chairman and CEO Bill Ford Jr.'s push to restore the automaker's ailing North American operations. The plan is expected to be formally announced Jan. 23.



 
Yep. Between the GM plant in Doraville and the Ford plant in Hapeville, the Atlanta area should loose about 10,000 jobs in the next three years, plus the "trickle down effect". I know it doesn't impact me directly, but I guarantee it will impact us all indirectly, sometime too soon. Here's hoping for a brighter New Year for those immediately affected.
 
Maybe the analyst that said oil will be hovering round $35 a barrel this year is right, :unsure: which will turn both these companies round.
 
Mac,

I'm sorry for those this will effect, but it gets really tiresome to hear people blame

the consumer for their companies problems. Since this is a free market econonmy,

and the product that offers the most value for the money will prosper, how can this

be our fault?? Maybe if some of these companies started looking within instead of

blaming everyone but themselves, it woud be the first step toward recovery for them!



Should the consumer, like sheep, blindly follow American manufacturers in whatever

direction they go, whether they like the product or not, just to ensure the American

company's prosperity? How can this be logical thinking?



I'm not saying this is the guy on the line fault, it certainly is management. But if consumers don't vote with their wallett, how do they signal dislike?



Sorry for being on the opposite side of the table...I still like your work!!! :rolleyes:

 
GM annouced that the OKC plant will close Feb 6. 2500 workers will get the big SEEEEEE YAAAAAAAA.



:(Harpo
 
what the hell...ahaaha...screw it.



Sorry for the post........trust me...I'll NEVER post anything else about US jobs again..

Buy whatever you want.....I know I will.
 
Mike - I'm with you. This is AMERICA! If you build a good product, people will buy it!! GM and Ford's management have mishandled the company. I have seem some exciting pre-production models come out of the GM and Ford design shops (the Buick LaCrosse concept being one such notable example). Yet when the bureacratic layers of management finally get done with what the designers have come up with, you end up with bland and boring.



Also, let's not forget management's failure to diversify product line. GM and Ford make great trucks, but their cars suck. If they put as much effort into improving the cars as they had the big profit-generating trucks, they wouldn't be in such financial straights. Want a good example of a large operation that did do this? Look at the Chrysler Group of DaimlerChrysler. Although they are now an import manufacturer, the Chrysler Group has U.S. roots. They invested not just in trucks, but cars as well. Chrysler is not sucking wind nearly as bad as GM and Ford. In fact, Chrysler is PROFITABLE and actually propping up the German side of DCAG (think Mercedes). This division came out with the 300, the Magnum and now the Charger is already generating quite a bit of buzz. They developed the hemi engine not just for trucks, but cars as well. They can't MAKE enough of these cars to satisfy demand.



Don't blame import manufacturers for following the rules of AMERICA well. Don't blame consumers for participating in the AMERICAN free market. Blame the fat-cat mismanagement at GM and Ford - who, by the way, are all over the White House and Capitol Hill seeking YOUR TAX dollars to bail them out of their own mess.



JC
 
Damn CEO's are gettin' their's and the workers are gettin' the shaft...as usual.

And yes I agree also...we ALL let it happen. WE ALL had a hand in that but, it didn't happen overnite either...it's been a long time coming.

My question is..."where does it end"?
 
I think Mike Taft pretty much nailed it. I personally think that people have lost confidence in GM and Ford in thier ability to build a quality product. The reality is if the product is quality and priced right people will buy it. I dont think Ford or GM are doing either right now and the market shows that.



I hate to see GM not doing well from a personal standpoint. GM is the largest automotive customer the company i work for(Bose) has. To see them not doing well will affect us at some point down the line. Also my father was a GM employee in thier tool making shop at the Framingham, MA plant for years until they closed it.



The last three GM vehicles i have had any personal experience with have all been of poor quality. My 2000 truck was an absolute turd, was in the shop almost as much as i drove it in the two years i put up with it. My mothers 2002 Tahoe, garbage in a nutshell. As many if not more problems then my 2000. Her 2005 Tahoe is yet another turd. A vehicle that costs over $40k should not have leaky windows, a poor shifting tranny, squeaks, rattles and electrical problems at 13000 miles. My Dakota with close to 100k on the clock feels tigher and drives better and has had less problems then her babied Tahoe. Quality is the reason i now own a Dodge( and will more then likley own another) after being a GM guy my whole life and its the same reason my parents will be taking dilevery of a new Nissan Armada after the new year.
 
Tee - I don't think the question, in my opinion is "where does it end"? THere is no begining or end, its a change and different economy. Think about the old factory workers before China and other countries were competing with us at a much cheaper price point. US companies outsouced to China got huge savings and passed that on to the american consumer. Yup folks lost jobs, but that happens everyday and is part of life. I think part of the problem is people NOT taking resonsibility for their career. If you are in a market/job/area that is shrinking or dying, get out! Move, get different/more education, and take control. I've worked for 7 different companies in my 17 years in business. Left each one voluntarily, and mostly for a better job. At 2 companies that got bought and started to lay off folks, I didn't wait for my pink slip, I started looking and when the right offer/offers came up and I jumped on it.



I think we need to invest in our schools more (not $$ but thought and effort) to get more science and technology kids out there, we are WAY behind in that field(s) now and into the near future. It's not $$ (GA is in the top 5 for spending per student but last or 2nd to last in test scores and SATs, so its not $$).



We need parents to take a more active role in their childrens lives, direct them, provide opportunites and that starts at home.



It is not easy, but our children are our future and I think as a whole (I know not any on this site) the majority of parents are abdicating their job to schools and other folks.
 
In my 57 years of existence , I have only purchased one Import vehicle new. That during the gas shortage in the early 80's. Other than that, I always buy an American vehicle from one of the big three.



I see no reason to change this behavior, as most all of my vehicles have performed well, when maintained properly.



Tex



 
I always buy an American vehicle from one of the big three.
Click to expand...



Tex - how do you feel about buying a Chrysler? You know they are owned by DaimlerChrysler AG - a GERMAN company. As for the "big 3" moniker, did you know that Toyota is the number 2 automaker in the world? So does this mean you would buy from GM, Toyota and Ford?



JC
 
And WHO wrote this little missive to the Wall Street Journal? I believe it was a Mr. Rick Wagonner, CEO of GM. Don't try to tell me he's not going to put his best spin on the quality of the products HIS company builds. Don't tell me his "reasons" are not anything more than thinly disguised excuses for the lackluster design of his company's vehicles and lower quality (maybe GM's improved over the 1980's, but that ain't saying much!). And DEFINITELY don't tell me his hired lobbyists are not ALL OVER the White House and Capitol Hill seeking tax breaks, incentives for R&D and other monies to help his position. If getting FREE TAX MONEY from the government isn't what you call a bail-out, I've got a bridge to sell you and some beachfront property in Florida. Show me a piece written by an unbiased automotive expert and THEN maybe GM will start to have an argument about why their failures are not of their own doing.
 
Well i for one dont call 60+ times to the dealer for problems in two years quality, that was my 2000. Since all the problems started after 12k i couldnt lemopn law it either and was stuck with it.....



I also dont call my mothers 2005 that has been in the shop over 20 times in just over a year quality either. Since all of her problems arent considered mahjor by Mass lemon laws she is also stuck with it but since since my parents can afford to dump it and take the cash hit they are.
 
WTF are you talkin' bout Trepster? You better be thinkin' where it's gonna' end......some people don't have the luxury to change:huh:

And lemme tell ya' when it affects that many...it effects the economy which IMHO is goin' to hell in a handbasket.
 
Always got to be somebody to bring that up.



Actually Jim, I haven't bought a Chrysler product since 1972. Previous to that, I was definitely a Mopar Junkie. Although, I very much like the Dodge Truck line.



Even though Chrysler is not the same as it was, I still consider them to be an American company.



If I buy Toyota, Nissan, Honda (insert any other import name here for brevity), I know that the money is ultimately going out of the country. For the most part, when I buy from the big 3, the money is primarily staying here and supporting American jobs.



I know that many of the foreign mfg's are now building cars here and are employing American workers. That's good. Helps offset our support of their textile workers in those countries.



I'm not knocking anyone's purhase of an import automobile. It's your choice. I just figure that I'll continue to support who I have supported, until such time as they do not deliver a good product.



Just simply personal preference.



Tex
 
Tee - Like I said its not where it ends thats a pessimistic view, think optimistic and opportunitistic. First I agree with some above, its about choosing the vehicle (price, quality, needs, availability...) and YES there are management and union problems too.



But, I don't buy the "some people don't have the luxury to change" for the most part. I'd say there is a very small population in our society that TRULY doesn't have the ability to change, but that is VERY small. I've seen it in my lifetime, if you remember my Dad's story about loosing his business (and he barely graduated highschool) and taking ANY job to put food on his families plate (night manager in a liquor store in a crime ridden area), and so on... He moved his family away from ANY family for a job/opportunity that crashed in the late 70's. Took any job again to get us through. We relied on family and our abilities to prioritize our spending and such...



I think way to many people honestly THINK they are stuck, but don't take the time to TRY and find better solutions. Its hard work, long hours and tough choices, but in this great country EVERYONE has the chance if they take it.



Just my opinion. Oh and I drive one GM and one Kia.
 
Hey Tex - didn't mean to bust your chops (not too much anyway - all in jest). But on a serious note, I hear what your saying about preference. Given that, let's make sure to be accurate in characterzations of "imports." Regardless of its American roots, Chrysler is now a German-owned corporation. That means profits go back to Germany (i.e., a foreign nation - at least last time I checked). Chrysler can not have it both ways - they can not claim to be American and Foreign at the same time to suit their needs at a particular point. With DCAG owning Chrysler, they are now an "import" brand.



If you get the impression that I take particular issue with this, you are correct. Too often, I see an underlying xenophobia in characterizing Asian-based imports as the only "imports" in the United States - Japanese, Korean, and Chinese. The whole attitude of the "yellow-horde" as interlopers bothers me a great deal - especially as an individual of Chinese descent. Its the same attitude I get personally when folks question whether I am truly an "American" despite having been born and raised in this great nation. Don't get me wrong Tex - I am not pointing the finger at you specifically. Certainly, nothing in your posts have ever even hinted at this. Yet, the attitude is pervasive that Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Kia, Hyundai are all imports, but DaimlerChrysler is not, even though many of those brands are built in the U.S. using U.S workers. Seems very hypocritical to me. Sorry for the rant.



JC
 
Jim, last time I checked, Daimler Chrysler was traded on the NY Stock Exchange. It's owners span from all over the world. Many are Americans. I would venture that many pension funds from unionized workers are directly or indirectly invested in Daimler Chrysler. Probably invested in Japanese corporations, too.



We have Toyotat plants in Tennessee. Mercedes plants in Alabama. A BMW building in South Carolina.



The message for everyone: Compete as best you can. You are entitled to loyalty from no customer. That goes for all of us. That's the way capitalism works, and it weeds out those who embrace weaker methods of competition.



If you expect to compete based on the advantages you don't earn in the marketplace, you can also expect to regret it.
 
Meant to say: As a publisher of an automotive enthusiast site, and one who has interacted as a third party with both union and management at an automobile company, I can say this without reservation:



If management and unions competed in the marketplace with the same level of fervor they usually waste beating the crap out of each other, there would be no competition.
 
F%^&& IT My Tonka Runs Just Fine and I Believe Chrysler went Belly Up years ago and We Tax Payers bailed It out..Made quite a bit on those 1.00 stocks I am with Mac...America is the Place why do you think all the foreign makers are building here now......GM Ford They will come out ok Bush won't let the Big Shots Down.. JR

Also,,,,I buy CHEBBY every year at least 2 of them.....Never had any problem.BUT.I don't like anything...I just go with the flow...Quality Is Job One...Chebby won the points chase,,Thats all that matters to me.HEEHEEEE:D:D:D....Better get em while you can..Bar keep bring me another.....JR
 
JR - "America is the Place why do you think all the foreign makers are building here now" I agree with the America is the Place part, but what about the last 30 years as GM, Ford and Chrysler have been building and selling cars in Europe, now China, Mexico, Canada... Like Rich said its a global market, everyone has to compete and the consumer wins!
 
Yeah consumers win...that's why all the crap is made in China:eek:
 
I think GM should wait some time before they cry doom I think with this years model they have come up with some nice cars that can compete with anyone this said I am not a GM person last GM I had was 65 chevy SS conv. lots of problems went to Fords have been very satisfied with their products right now have a Mercury GM and 2 Explorers and like them all but Ford has been draging behind on car development and they have nothing that I like and I need to buy a new car not a truck so I may go with a new Cady or a Dodge charger



JD
 
TEE, don't look now, but some good stuff is getting made in China.



A couple of years ago, I wanted a bandsaw. My choices were American made for $800, Taiwainese made with U.S. brand on the machine for $400, China made for $225. Now, I don't use a bandsaw a lot, so I couldn't justify top dollar just to say I had an American made bandsaw.



Yep, I bought the cheapie. It's been a perfectly good machine. And what do you think I did with the other $600? Bought American lumber, stains, paints, glues, sandpaper, fasteners and assorted stuff I used right after I'm done using the bandsaw.



It's a world economy. Let the rewards go to those who are most industrious in their respective trade.
 
Way to go Mac....starting sheet again!!



I say try them all and don't keep them long enough to have problems. :D



Proud owner of Ford, Chevy, Infinity, Jeep, Mercedes, Nissan, and Jeep since 1998.
 
Toxic - I hate when our government uses the police power to force our money (taxes) to be used to bail out private industry (and that includes the airlines!). IF i were in charge when we bailed out Chrysler the rules would have been - This is a loan at prime + 1 %, NO stock options, raises, bonus or such for any management/executive or union management/executive until the entire loan is paid back. EVERY profit not required to be reinvested would be principle and interest against the loan from the taxpayers.
 
I resent the fact that we slept for 6 hours..Best I ever did was 4 1/2 maybe 4 3/4..I did win alot at the poker games....Craps killed me...But I was there for my measley 3,789.76 every 2 weeks..should of been more but times were slow at Gm In the good old days.....JR:blink:
 
Get rid of the unions in those plants, the guy sweeping the floor should'nt make 25$hr and have full health care no wonder these companies can't compete with the imports
Click to expand...



YOU GOT IT BRO!!!



 
Not one of our "competitive" automotive economies have our same problems...



Healthcare... Our system is private pay... So "we" pay... The "we" are employer provided plans for the most part... Insured people pay about 75-80% of the cost but represent about 50% of the patient base... Compound that with retired workers and it becomes a staggering load. This is something that was simply not anticipated or forecast by anyone. Find a fix to the healthcare issue and you will go a long way to fixing some serious competitive issues for our industrial employers and thousands of other employers.



The "joke" is our government, both parties, know that they can keep playing this game. They mandate and grant "coverage" in Medicaid and Medicare and then lower payemnts to providers who by law cannot refuse to treat patients in emergency rooms, where most routine healthcare is now provided to the poor. So, the providers are forced to shift the cost to the insured. It is a "secret backhanded tax". They won't raise the medicare tax but they do by shifting the cost to insured working people.



Another issue that is going to choke us in the future is the pension shortfalls. The loose oversight over the last 40 years...that is through both Republican and Democratic administrations and congressional control...so it is again not one party...allowed pensions to be underfunded and then guaranteed those pensions by a federal system (The PBGC) that did not have an adequate "premium" collected...



There is enough blame to go around to smear everyone, the unions management and the government... The blame game gets us nowhere... We need solutions... And one of those proposed solution is to mandate reforms for everyone... Government needs to have the responsibility of funding, fully, the real "cost" of any social benefit. We need to recognize that in some states our immigration problems are destroying the healthcare and educational systems and address that issue.



A jobs displacement tariff has been discussed. We tax imports that are "produced" cheaper and a labor equalization tax is imposed. That has some merit, but it raise prices at the big box store and cut into the consumers pocketbook... Again, to some extent that will be a backhanded tax. But treaties and trade agreements may not permit that... That is a very complex area.



And, off we go... into many more areas of the economy...



 
I think we should scrap all foreign models jeeze that means we walk even bikes are foreign..HARLEY Here I Come.....Ranger boats..:D:D:D:D:D
 
JR - What you gonna push that Ranger with? A Foreign Yammie??? LOL
 
nope gonna use good ole kentucky hardwood oars....Gas cost to much...

Motor what motor I don't need no Stinkin Motor...HEE HEE

Hell I don't need a boat had it foralmost 2 years and only got 19 hours on It..Hell I got a 2005 Chebby Crew cab $ 42,000.00 it's over a year old and It just turned 5,000 miles on It..I don't need no Stinkin Truck..

But I got 500 longaberger baskets for sale want one????? I am The Offical Nut of NTOWS.....Really It's the alzheimers and old age and the results of working for General Motors..I quit the Tool Room after 22 years and went and Ran the G.M. golf course Here for .10 cents on the dollar..Now whats wrong with this Picture...?????? There afraid to come and get me cause I'am really crazy.....Have a safe and happy holiday..Trep.....
 
:D:D:D:D:D



Any rally that JR is at, count me in even if I have to hitch-hike across country to get there.

It would be well worth it to sit and drink beer with him.:D:D:D:D:D
 
Steve - Bring the Iron City and i'll pick you up in KY!!!
 
Man,

I am in the sticks at Fort Irwin for a coupke of days and look at this......My opinion is that I will buy GM until there is no GM. A few reasons are that I want there to be jobs in the US, yes, I know some maybe even most of the aprts are made out of the US, but there are still jobs for the US by me buying american. In years pst, I went for the best deal, but now, I think twice on the "deal". if i spend a few more dollars and they stay in the US, then I have done my part for the US economy. Another reason for me to buy GM is I have a good friend who works there and if I can help to get his kids thru collge, then so be it :)



Carlos



BTW JR, do not sell taht puppy yet, I wil lbe out later, after all this snow messs at home clears :)
 
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