Complaints about the Pros

[Greg Gutierrez]

Hey guys and gals,



I hope all is well and your live-wells have been full of big fish! I was cruising through the posts and found one series that kind of struck a nerve, and just wanted to check in with a different side of how life on the road really is. I

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Nice post Greg though I must admit I am not sure of what you are answering or what the original post was. I haven't been around as much as usual.

I hope you're doing well on the tour and in your life Greg



Uncle Billy

 

[TritonGlenn]

Greg,

It was me that pointed out what Jeremy Starks did. I don't know who he is, so I did a search for him on the internet with the google search "friends of coal", as I figured there wouldn't be many people associated with that. I found a picture of him in that same BassCat that I saw him in, and the write up referenced "rookie pro" several times. I made an assumption. OK. I was wrong on his "rookie" status. Sorry.



But I stand by my original assessment of the situation. Yes, I understand that you guys travel several thousands of miles each year, and have to prefish, etc... BUT - I would never come into a small creek, note 4 boats in it, obviously fishing stretches of banks back and forth - we all had out little areas - nobody was encroaching on anyone else. I even made a point to stay as far away from the other boats as possible when we were in that creek.



I would have NEVER - even in the tournament - even if the tournament rules allowed it - fish past someone and start beating the same little stretch of bank that they are fishing. It's not right. It's not courteous. And it's not sporting. I know tons of people that do it, particularly on the Potomac.



I've had people (pro's and non-pro's) drop right in on top of me - literally - they came off plane less than a boat length in front of me, and just started fishing. I could have stepped into their boat - that's how close they were.



It pisses me off when people do it. Not because they are fishing a "secret spot" - it's because they are fishing right on top of you, when there is plenty of other water to fish. If someone else is there - oh well - you move on. You don't fish on top of them. But I guess now-adays there are tons of people that find this behavior acceptable.



For him to be prefishing - when he knew we were fishing a tournament, and coming in right on top of others - is just downright wrong. No - we don't "own" that spot... and we don't "own" the fish - but too many people have forgot about what is right and sporting. Now, if he wanted to cross in front of me, and continue down the bank without fishing until he got past my spot (like another boat did), then I have no issue with that. But to come at you, with rod in hand, making casts to the bank you are catching your fish on? I just don't think that is right.



If you want to fish an area, that has someone sitting on it, then go fish outside of that area, and when that person moves (if they move), then hey - it's open. But don't go fish the same bank or location as someone else - especially if they are fishing a tournament.



I've actually had tournament pro's tell me and friends "hey, I'm fishing a tournament, so I'm going to fish this spot". When we inform them that we are fishing a tournament too, their response has been something to the effect of "yeah, but I'm fishing a PRO tournament, not this little Region / Club / etc....." Well excuse me! Just because someone competes for more money does not automatically give them the right to bump someone else off of their spot, does it???



I'm not saying that all the tournament pro's do this - but I have had my fill of this kind of behavior from both non-pro's and pros. It all comes down to ethics. Some pros (and amatuers) need to look up the word.



I hope you do not take offense to this Greg. That is not my intention. But I want to ensure that you, and others, know my point of view. Unfortunately, the violators probably won't care anyway. "Glenn who???... yeah, right".



All the best,

Glenn



Edited after reading it, as it seemed way too harsh - which was not my intention. I checked the rocks at the door, and only carried small pebbles within my glass house on the re-write. :lol:

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Uncle Billy I think it's in reply to the post by Mike Express flw/bfl stren........ I will take the blame for not adding the fact that there were way more good hours on the water than bad. With the pro's, co-anglers, fisherpeople and pleasure boaters in general and most land owners (there was 1 jerk in Vermont) I should have completed my original reply instead of keeping it so narrow. I had a great time last year, I fished 4 of the Elite events as a co-angler and I learned more in those 4 weeks than I could ever digest. My normal fishing partner turned to me last year and ask who I was and what I did with the old Bruce, he said he just did recognize me anymore. Before last season at any given time if you looked on the deck of my boat there was a bandit crankbait, a white spinnerbait and my lizard set up. (maybe a tube now and then) if I could not catch fish with them I could not catch a fish. Now I am a member of tackle junkies annonamous (thanks Greg) Fishing jigs, Frogs, and more I still have my top 3 but it's getting harder to keep 8 to 10 rods off the deck to expand my options.

SO let me take the time to Thank some people that I have ridden with and learned from last year. Thanks Greg first of all, he taught me the most no matter how painfull it was for him. Thanks to John Murray, Rick Ash, Grant Goldbeck, John Bondy, Scott Rook, Chris Lane, Zel Rowland and Paul Elias. I spent time in all thier boats and Thank them for sharing there time with me. Guys I did not fish with but did get to meet and learn from, Skeet Reese, Jarred Litner, Jason Quinn, Denny Brauer, Marty Stone, Gerald Swindle, Kevin VanDam and gosh knows who I forgot. I hope I got most of the names right (spelling wise)

The saying that come to mind right now is don't let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.



Thanks for reading.



BF

 

[Michael Meier]

For the most part, people pick the jobs they elect to work at. Even if it's fishing. I don't know Greg, but Bruce and Mike do, and that's good enough for me. Both of these guys know me and I'll always share stuff when someone needs it.



We have way to many of these large events on the river and with the pre-fishing for each event starting two days after they can get here from the the last event, the sticker boats are all over the river from spring till fall and the bent rod pattern pre-fishing is alive and well. I'm not sure what the off-limits is for these events, but the one going on right now had none? This does not mean all of these guys are doing the stop/drop/cast!!



I was born and raised right on Lake Moultrie/Santee and have been fishing Red Man/ MBAA / Federation events since 1978. Now I live up here on Potomac Creek. That's allot longer time on the water than most of these "Pro's" have been out of pampers. And it's all for fun!! I have a normal day job like most folks. Evening and weekends are fun fishing even if it's a tournament. Screwing with my fun time is no differnet than someone walking up on you in your tree stand 5 minutes after it gets light.

 

[Dan Nevill]

OK, I see all the points but look at it simply like this.



I fish for fun. I don't follow or stalk turney fishing on my lake. If i'm fishing a spot and a pro comes up to fish the smae spot then the pro can wait. I pay tax's like everybody else, most lakes are free space and will be polite as I can. I have had both sides in the past year. Been asked politly if I could move on (I will then) and also was demanded praticly bumped from my spot( I then will tell them to kiss my xxx). Time will catch up to those rude ones or the DNR.



My look on this is the ones that are rude you dont see in the top 50, that is why, they don't deserve it. With every sport there are bad fans and pro's and we have to take it with stride.



Dan

 

[Bob Robinson]

Wow. I must be lucky. I fish a lake up here that gets one of the largest tournament schedules in the state, and I have never been intruded on by any tournament angler. I don't tourney fish. Just a fun recreational fisherman.

Thanks goodness that the anglers seem to be more polite about intruding on someone elses fishing water here.

Don't know how I would take someone doing something like that.....:angry:

 

[Marty Klein]

It's really all about sharing first and less about I got there first. Folks making a private living on public waters have no greater claim to public waters than the general public fishing public waters.



My take on some of the "rules of the road" are:



Fishing same bank in same direction, both boats on the move, same speed of movement-don't pass. If you decide to pass, move at least 100 yards past.



Fishing same bank in same direction on the move, second boat moving faster speed of movement-pass and keeping moving same rate of speed--passing and slowing down is just plain discourteous. When passing move beyond the passed boat more than their casting length.



Fishing same bank coming upon a boat sitting on a spot, pass and move on at your chosen rate of speed. This rule allows for stopping at your own spot further along the bank. When passing move beyond the stopped boat more than their casting length.



If a boat is fishing a spot, then stay away, at least 50 yards-period.



If you find yourself fishing a spot someone previously identified as a hot spot [unbeknownst to you], well then, you're just lucky and the other guy lost his spot. If you go to a spot you know someone has identified as a hot spot, then you're just plain rude. However, if you had already previously identified it as a hot spot as well, then it goes to he who get their "fuhstest and fastest."



Fishing the same bank in opposite directions, maintain same rates of speed. Coordinate an appropriate passing about 30 yards out. Once passed, don't fish in a backward direction from the boat.



Certainly not all inclusive, but the tenor of these sharing rules applies to all situations.

 

[mike chip]

i dont have much to say on this topic, because i have a truck load of rocks. but i will say i have never had a bad encounter with a tourning pro just the j*cka**'s that think they are. i.e. champ teams-and other local clubs.

see you on the potomac greg.

mike c

 

[Dan Nevill]

Marty,



You hit it on the nose. All great points.



Dan

 

[TritonGlenn]

Marty,

Now that's something that needs to be printed, laminated, and pasted under a rod locker lid for ready reference for some of the guys. :lol: Great post!

All the best,

Glenn

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Great Post Marty.. ! Now let me stir this up a little. What do all of you do if you're fishing a bank and then when you come around a corner, you see one or two guys, or you see one old man and a young boy, or a medium aged man and a young boy, shore fishing one of the spots that locals or some map showed you would be hot?

Personally, I would go back out and pass them up but I have seen others that wouldn't..



Uncle Billy

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Uncle Billy - With all your questions about ages can you please tell me the kind of clothes they were wearing so I can make a decision. LOL

 

[TritonGlenn]

Uncle Billy,

Any time I encounter people fishing on the shoreline, I give them a wide berth. Even if the spot is a "hot spot" for me, I'll go completely around them, not even coming close to their casting distance. After all, I can move to wherever I want on that lake / river / etc... , and then are kind of "stuck" where they are at.



I've seen people case right over the area that bank fishermen are at - it's rude.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Uncle Billy - With all your questions about ages can you please tell me the kind of clothes they were wearing so I can make a decision. LOL

I was trying to cover all the bases Bill.:lol: Though I thought I did see one fairly big guy who was obviously a Scotsman because he was wearing a red plaid kilt. Or maybe it was a skirt, I don't know...Very familiar.:wacko:



Uncle Billy

 

[TOMMY RICH]

One of a "thousand reasons" I don't tourny fish anymore. Sad too

But, I can guarantee you that there are some sweet spots that I have because of that very fact.

It didn't take long for it NOT to be fun.

My hats off to all you guys who do and have to put up with "todays flotillas and pros? alike".

 

[Jim in VA]

Love the post from Marty. Guidelines to LIVE by!! As a guy that loves his Tracker PT175 and fishes out of it regularly, tournament fisherman know that I am NOT fishing a tournament. Most are friendly and wave and we respect each others' space. A few, however, find it their God-given right to shove a lowly recreational fisherman off his (or her) spot. Bull cookies. As Bluefrog and others have said - I pay my taxes (a helluva lot of taxes!), buy my licenses, registrations, etc. and generally pay the fees to support my recreation. Public water is just that - PUBLIC. Unfortunately, it seems the number of "entitled" fisherman keep rising every year. The Spoils and Mattawoman Creek are two spots you simply can not avoid getting tromped on, flipped off, or otherwise the recipient of downright rude behavior. It a word, it sucks.



I doubt that anything will improve anytime soon, but I sure hope that for the sake of fishing - the kind that you remembered as a kid - the kind that I'm teaching my 5 year old - that the tournament types start policing their own. Its not enough to wait until DNR, the Coast Guard or Police step in. I'll end my post with a challenge to all those participating in tournaments. Want to cure the problem? Start calling out those participants that act rudely or inappropriately to ANYONE else fishing, regardless of whether its shore fishermen, recreational boaters or fellow tournament goers. Shame them into acting appropriately - Marty's guidelines are a great start. Tournaments have done this for making sure participants wear PFD's and preserve fish live. How about incentives/disincentives for good behavior?

 

[mike chip]

jim,

you are right on about the aluminum boat thing, I get that all the time, but i am fishing a tournament, i once had a guy ask me to let him pass before we are out of the no wake zone so i dont slow him down having to go around me, well i hope i set him straight when he showed up at the same spot and i was already fishing.

mike c

 

[Rusty Williams]

Well I keep a 1 oz slab spoon tied onto a 7.5' rod @ all times for the tourny jac.... I mean striper....yea striper that may come along @ any time. U can cast that 1 oz spoon a long long way to hit that fool..i mean striper right in the head.





RW

 

[Marty Klein]

I give them a wide berth. Generally, I find out how far they have a line out and stay outside that area.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Yep...if I can cast and hit ya'...Ya' TODAMCLOSE!:lol:

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Like others when I come up on people fishing the bank I give them plenty of room because I can fish the whole lake while they are limited to a small area. On a side note when I went to launch one day on the Conowingo there was a guy fishing the dock/ramp area. He picked up his stuff and moved so I could launch. It's a little hike between the ramp and the parking and I was thinking how nice it was for him to move, he did not have to. So when I got back to the boat I thanked him and ask him if he would like to go out and see the rest of the lake. We had a blast, he got to see the lake from a boat and I got to show him some other places he could fish from the bank. But yes I have a 1/2 rattle trap on deck at all times for jet fleas..



BF

 

[Bill Hutchison]

It don't matter what you are doing Fishing or hunting the world is full of rude people and only look out for them. I just try to do the right thing and not be one of them it will always come back to you one way or another.

 

[Drew Dennis]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but and Idea to combat the rudeness of pros you encounter. Keep a camera on board. Take a picture (or video) of the behavior and send it to the media. Given how the media LOVES to embarass people that would teach them a lesson. Bad media nearly ruined Iconnelli after his temper tantrum a while back...

 

[Randy Walls]

That bad media will also hurt the little guys as it will give the property owners that don't want people fishing "their" water around their docks etc. more ammo to keep us off "their" water!:angry:



Randy!

 

[Jim in VA]

ddennis has the right idea on filming, recording or otherwise noting the rude behavior. But perhaps instead of reporting to the mainstream media, send it (along with a complaint detailing where and when the bad behavior occurred) to the tournament organizers and/or the tournament director. I'm sure they recognize the bad effect rude behavior will have on their events. This may be a better option than airing too publicly and risking painting all fisherman with the same rude brush.