WTF Mac?

  • Thread starter Marty Klein [URL]http://www.time.com/time/business
  • Start date
Advertise with us
shop deals on amazon
Shop deals on ebay
Nitro Owners Forum

Help Support Nitro Owners Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
It's true,....I would get 12mos. pay minus taxes in one lump sum.........and the other $14.99999B would be executive bonuses for the cost savings they incurred by getting rid of me!
 
Man, sure seems to be a scary deal either way it goes. Referencing the article, I don't see the logic of maintaining the same "head shed" that led GM into this mess.



JP
 
I hate to see anyone lose their job (down stream from GM this would be hundreds of thousands), but if us/the taxpayer is going to fund a non-Govt. GM bailout for $10B in bills and $15B to close plants (which they should have done already) then I believe we need some accoutability for the activities were paying for and we also see a dramatic drop in the price of the vehicles along with a payback for our investment. Obama may have won MI with promises to the autoworkers, but we hold the cash!!

1. Pres. Henderson will be required to present daily reports on the salvage operations to us and we will have the GAO (Govt. accounting Office) deeply entrenched in all GM operations.

2. The factory assh*le leaning on the broom at $25.00 per hour (+ pay/benifts takes it to $48.50 per hour) is the 1st to hit the bricks. (sorry union folks, Obama can't even save this one) Everyone else is to be humping and sweating for 8 hours a day. Let's see them do a LSS project on that!

3. The Autoworkers union crawls over in the corner and licks itself while stuff gets fixed. :lol:

4. GM would then be considered a Govt. sponsored manaufacturing firm (same as those in North Korea - hey that's communist:eek:) and subject to management by a panel of taxpayers.

That's a start.



 
Mike is dead on. The auto industry has been a failure for many years. They just had enough cash to sustain the operation. Improper management,unions and not being able to bring competitive products to the market in a timely fashion is why they are in the shape we see today.
 
How about the financial aspects... The $25 Billion gets the Gov't (maybe the Soc Sec Trust Fund) stock at the lowest publicly traded price over the next six months... Then, if the $$$$ fixes GM the Gov't can sell it at a profit. That might hurt the current shareholders, but it would be a lot less than a bankruptcy...
 
Unfortuntely (well..maybe luckily) it's a public company...the stockholders own it!! If the Gov't wanted to take it over, they'd have to buy back every share. Won't happen.

GM doesn't wants low interest LOANS....and if they get'em,..there will be lots of strings attached,.....but the LAST thing wewant to see is Bankruptcy...that alone would put the USA in a depression. Probably not a wise thing to do!!
 
So what are the unions doing to help The big 3??

Is there any talk about the workers taking a lowere wage to help reduce coast untill this mess is cleaned up?? I figure a cut in pay is better than NO job at all.

 
This mess won't get fixed until the US makers get their net cost per hour with benefits comparable to their competition. Right now there is a $1,500 per car difference. In amy business, including cars, this makes you uncompetitive. If it is not fixed, the jobs will go. Maybe bankruptcy is the only way to get this fixed........reorganize with new pay and benefit structure.
 
Folks....last UAW contract negotiations with Ford, GM and Chrysler took the burden of pensions and health care AWAY from the companies and TO the unions. Part of this "low cash" problem that all three seem to be having is because of the monies that were paid to the UAW to start the funds for the pensions and health care.



There is no more $$$ amount per car for health care and pensions to blame on the unions.



If memory serves me correct, GM paid the UAW US$500billion to transfer the pensions and healthcare for the union employees. The number may be wrong.



 
Tough problems. But I'd like to ask this?



Why is it so much harder to have GM declare bankruptcy, then the Airlines? Not like they are going 'out of business'. If they have to declare, it would certainly be a reorganization. At that point, they get to re-negotiate virtually everything, including the Union Contracts.



I certainly know that to have GM, Ford or Chrysler go bankrupt (re-org) would be hard on the Michigan area (along with other area's of course), but the fact of the matter is that there are quite a number of car manufactuer's operating in the US at a profit.

Their cost model is just not working.



And, I'm not buying this whole theory going around, that we need to keep the Big Three manufacturing up and running in case we need to build tanks, planes, etc. Most of those items, are now very much 'technology machines', as opposed to steel and rivets.



Tex

 
Tex,...the Airlines don't build their planes,...they buy'em and fly'em! People still need to fly to places, so they can still do business (generate revenue) while they re-organize. If GM doesn't build cars and trucks..they don't generate revenue. If GM files chptr 11, I can pretty much gauranteee the UAW won't man the plants and the stuff won't get built if they don't have a contract......it woud probably take a court order to get them to build w/o a contract...and I won't even get into the "quality issues" of the stuff they'll build if THAT happens!!



As far as "Technology machines" of current tanks,planes, etc......the same was true in WWII,...GM (and Ford and Chrysler) had the designers, engineers, and technology and the supplier bases already established to go from making cars to tanks and planes in literally months!! If another situation like that ever happened again.....I'd bet the 3 companies could do that again,.....and do it even better and faster now!! BUT,..if we lose that mfg'g capability to foreign companies....we're screwed...we will have lost virtually EVERY means of manufacturing any kind of defense equipment in mass.....and do you really think a foreign company who supplies us with cars and trucks and gas and oil, is going to give us tanks and planes and hi-tech equipment if we're not allied with them?? That's a situation I wouldn't want to see this country in...EVER!!!! WE NEED the Big 3..and we need them to be strong, profitable...and versatile not just for the employment of millions of people....but MOST importantly.....for National Security!!;)



 
Mac, I certainly respect that you have far more personal and intimate knowledge on the Auto Industry than I do. Guess we will simply have to agree to disagree on some of the points.



The point that we should certainly agree on, is that Michigan is hurting, and would be in even far worse shape if any of the Big 3 were to declare bankruptcy.



Tex
 
Hey dude,...I totally agree there needs to be a lot of changes both in the auto ranks and the UAW and in congressional "bailouts" No disagreeing there!!! I just want to be paid for 8 more years while we're going thru them!! LOL!!!



It'll make it easier on me to pick up your beer and wings tab the next time you're up here!!!;):rolleyes:
 
Well, me coming back up there anytime soon, probably isn't going to happen. Last trip was in June, and I just finished up on the account that I was assigned in Troy. Looking for a new 'assignment', but right now simply sitting on my butt.



Not the most pleasant of feelings. New projects/programs are usually 'slow' near the end of the calendar year.



Guess that I'll join the local 'range', and start shooting some!



Tex
 
Mac - "If GM files chptr 11, I can pretty much gauranteee the UAW won't man the plants and the stuff won't get built if they don't have a contract......it woud probably take a court order to get them to build w/o a contract...and I won't even get into the "quality issues" of the stuff they'll build if THAT happens!! "



Does that sound like a problem? if any employee of any company doesn't build to the top quality that they can and is expected of them by their employer and the customer, why in the world would you ever buy from that company again, and why shouldn't the employer can every one of them?? I think you just summed up very well why the Big 3 are not profitable - UAW :)
 
If the $1500 a car difference is all labor and benefits of current employees, they are going to have to go a-cutting or get their head handed to them, VW is building a new plant in Chattanooga, they must know something.
 
Trep,.....not "every" UAW member is like that,......I'd say more than not, would work their asses off to keep the bills paid and food on the table,.....but it only takes a few in every plant to cause problems. And....that also hold true for the salaried ranks as well....there will be a lot of attitude problems across the board.....nobody will NOT be affected in one way or another if they turn the page and begin chapter 11. My prediction stands firm tho....the UAW and upper Mgt will be hit the hardest...both in pay and perks.



Berry,...TN is right to work state (I think) and VW will be a non-UAW plant......or atleast they aren't forced to join if they don't want to.....the Saturn plant is unionized I think, but that doesn't mean EVERY employee is a UAW member. Hutch use to work there,..maybe he can fill us in. I'm not up on all of that, I just know that people need to buy MORE GM, Ford and chrysler products,..and fewer imports. OR,..our congress needs to put HUGE tarriffs on the imports to level the playing field ....try buying a Chevy in Japan....:blink::angry: Better yet,..try just finding one over there, let alone being able to afford it!! (The Japanese do that for a REASON!!!....hellllooo!!!!)
 
6 Myths About the Detroit 3

Detroit Free Press

By Mark Phelan

Nov. 17, 2008



The debate over aid to the Detroit-based automakers is awash with half-truths and misrepresentations that are endlessly repeated by everyone from members of Congress to journalists. Here are six myths about the companies and their vehicles, and the reality in each case.



Myth No. 1: Nobody buys their vehicles.

Reality: General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC sold 8.5 million vehicles in the United States last year and millions more around the world. GM outsold Toyota by about 1.2 million vehicles in the United States last year and holds a U.S. lead over Toyota of about 560,000 so far this year. Globally, GM in 2007 remained the world's largest automaker, selling 9,369,524 vehicles worldwide -- about 3,000 more than Toyota.



Ford outsold Honda by about 850,000 and Nissan by more than 1.3 million vehicles in the United States last year.



Chrysler sold more vehicles here than Nissan and Hyundai combined in 2007 and so far this year.



Myth No. 2: They build unreliable junk.

Reality: The creaky, leaky vehicles of the 1980s and '90s are long gone. Consumer Reports recently found that "Ford's reliability is now on par with good Japanese automakers." The independent J.D. Power Initial Quality Study scored Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Ford, GMC, Mercury, Pontiac and Lincoln brands' overall quality as high or higher than that of Acura, Audi, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Scion, Volkswagen and Volvo.



Power rated the Chevrolet Malibu the highest-quality midsize sedan. Both the Malibu and Ford Fusion scored better than the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry.



Myth No. 3: They build gas-guzzlers.



Reality: All of the Detroit Three build midsize sedans the Environmental Protection Agency rates at 29-33 miles per gallon on the highway. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Malibu gets 33 m.p.g. on the highway, 2 m.p.g. better than the best Honda Accord. The most fuel-efficient Ford Focus has the same highway fuel economy ratings as the most efficient Toyota Corolla. The most fuel-efficient Chevrolet Cobalt has the same city fuel economy and better highway fuel economy than the most efficient non-hybrid Honda Civic. A recent study by Edmunds.com found that the Chevrolet Aveo subcompact is the least expensive car to buy and operate.



Myth No. 4: They already got a $25-billion bailout.

Reality: None of that money has been lent out and may not be for more than a year. In addition, it can, by law, be used only to invest in future vehicles and technology, so it has no effect on the shortage of operating cash the companies face because of the economic slowdown that's killing them now.



Myth No. 5: GM, Ford and Chrysler are idiots for investing in pickups and SUVs.



Reality: The domestic companies' lineup has been truck-heavy, but Toyota, Nissan, Mercedes-Benz and BMW have all spent billions of dollars on pickups and SUVs because trucks are a large and historically profitable part of the auto industry. The most fuel-efficient full-size pickups from GM, Ford and Chrysler all have higher EPA fuel economy ratings than Toyota and Nissan's full-size pickups.



Myth No. 6: They don't build hybrids.

Reality: The Detroit Three got into the hybrid business late, but Ford and GM each now offers more hybrid models than Honda or Nissan, with several more due to hit the road in early 2009.

 
The High Cost of GM's Death

Automotive News

By Keith Crain and Peter Brown (Editorial)

Nov. 17, 2008



If Congress thinks a bailout of General Motors is expensive, consider the cost of a GM failure.



Let's be clear. The alternative to government cash for GM is not a dreamy Chapter 11 filing and reorganization that puts dealers and the UAW in their place, ensuring future success.



No, even if GM could get debtor-in-possession financing to keep the lights on (which it can't), Chapter 11 means a collapse of sales and a spiral into a Chapter 7 liquidation.



GM's 100,000 American jobs will die. Health care for a million Americans will be lost or at risk. Hundreds of GM's 1,300 suppliers will die. Their collapse could take down Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC, perhaps even North American transplants. Dealerships in every county of America will close.



The government will face more people unemployed, without health insurance and even without pensions.



Criticize Detroit 3 executives all you want. But the issue today is not whether GM should have closed Buick years ago, been tougher with the UAW or supported higher fuel economy standards.



In two to four months, GM will run out of cash and turn out the lights. Only government money can prevent that. Every other alternative is fantasy.



The $25 billion in loans that Congress approved to partially fund improvements in fuel economy? Irrelevant. Dead automakers do not invest in technology.



The collapse of credit has crushed the American car market, dried up revenues for the Detroit 3 and highlighted their weaknesses. Each of the Detroit 3 is in crisis. But Ford, which borrowed big two years ago and thus has more cash today, may skip a bailout and the strings attached. Cerberus, which bought Chrysler last year, doesn't deserve money. Government cash might help sell Chrysler to a strategic owner.



Some Detroit critics want their pound of flesh: Throw the bums out and install a government czar. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson won't use any of his $700 billion bank bailout money to help manufacturers. In any case, he'd need a guarantee that a bailout would make Detroit "viable." Well, not even AIG is insuring guarantees for viability.



The taxpayer needs protection and an upside. GM's top management may need to go. Government-as-shareholder deserves a big voice.



he Detroit 3 CEOs had better tell Congress this week what sacrifices they are prepared to make.



But the stark fact remains: Absent a bailout, GM dies, and with it much of manufacturing in America. Congress needs to do the right thing -- now.

 
Interesting stuff. Still have very mixed feelings.



Guess that what I want to know is this:



If the Gov't loans/gives the money to GM (and/or Ford/Chrysler), are they simply going to keep doing business as usual????



Or are they going to change, or be able to change?



Tex
 
Detroit Free Press

By Mark Phelan - He is writing for the newspaper there and would most likely want to be able to stop and buy milk without a Blackwater team. What else would you expect him to say???:lol::lol::lol:



Automotive News

By Keith Crain and Peter Brown (Editorial) - They are writing for the auto industry and depend on advertising for their magazine and their job. GM goes tits up, so do they. What else would you expect them to say???:lol::lol::lol:



Ask the guy in Oklahoma they interview after the tornado went thru his trailer park what he thinks. He is always around and has no hidden agenda.:unsure:



 
You can bet there will plenty of strings atached to those loans requiring changes at ALL levels.....especially UAW and Executive bonuse's and base pay....and that's just a start. They may even demand changes in upper management,...but I don't think that would help much now....it's more of a total market collapse vs. a managerial thing, and the last thing we need is MORE governemental interfearance and regulations that create uncompetitiveness in the first place! NOBODY anywhere could have predicted this....even CONGRESS didn't see it coming...and it was THEM who created most of the mess that led up to this!!
 
Here we go. A man of little to no morals and out for the almighty $$$$$$.



The recently re-educated former uber-capitalist Jim Cramer was his usual shy self yesterday whilst laying out his plan for the first 100 days of an Obama administration to CNBC. Jim the Shouter says he
 
The man with money is going where with his cash??



Warren Buffet just dropped $230 million dollars for ten percent of BYD a Chinese Battery maker and Hybrid powertrain manufacturer. It looks as if BYD is making a push to bring a dual mode hybrid vehicle to market much sooner than expected. BYD has had a launch date of 2010 for its vehicles and have not announced plans for the U.S. market. However it has been reported that it has had some of the most extensive testing of it's batteries and vehicles in China. The batteries have a range of 62 miles and will last 300,000 miles before needing replaced.
 
The stock boards are buzzing that Berkeshire Hathaway's purchase of nearly 14 million shares in CarMax is a sure-fire sign of a recession. After all, what's a nice billionaire like Warren Buffett doing in the used car business? Yet it's quite possible that the Oracle from Omaha knows something the rest of us don't about hidden value. The $284.4 million purchase amounts to about 6 percent of the company's equity. Spokespeople for Buffett say only that he likes the company's business model and sees good prospects for long-term growth.



This actually makes sense. Buffett rarely flips stocks for short-term profit. And while automakers struggle to sell in the wake of rising fuel prices and the housing bust, used cars make a great, cash-sensitive alternative. What's more, cars last longer than ever. Used cars tend to have great value. And CarMax has used the Internet to clean up the both the practices and the shady image of the used-car industry.

 
My head just exploded causing the smoke alarms to go off..I'll be back tomorrow!!:blink:
 
Mac,

Didn't get my lunch till lake and that's when I review the market data. Interesting stuff and had to send it all at once due to time available.:D
 
Problem with switching to Natural Gas.



The country is setup to deliver Gasoline nationwide, not Natural Gas. That changeover, is going to be difficult, for you are asking someone to invest a lot of money into the change in Infrastructure, before there are customers.



And the customers aren't going to switch, without a delivery system in place where they can get Natural Gas. Works great for larger metro areas where buses, fire trucks, city vehicles and such can get their 'gas' from a central place. Where do all the 'nobody's' (like me and you), go to get it.



Tex
 
Well, I've been staying out of the GM bailout discussions here and on other forums, but I saw Mac brought up my name so I'll address the right-to-work deal a little bit. Yes, Tennessee is right-to-work. However, I would say that, out of the thousands of hourly workers at Saturn, there never were more than 30 or 40 at any one time who weren't in the Union, and most of them would end up rejoining.

Great posts Mac!

Hutch
 
GM needs to bribe Consumer Reports. They don't have one recommended SUV or truck except Silverdo 1500.
 
CR is a joke Teri,.....they've been anti-GM for years.......I don't think they even like the 'vette!! JDP could award GM every award known to mankind and CR would still diss us.



Don't go by a magazine's opinion anyway,.........ask other owners!!:rolleyes:;)
 
Mac, I know CR is a joke but people live by that crap. I just happened to glance at it today and thought wow Toyota must pay them lots under the table. Ford is even being recommended now but no GM. It's got to hurt when so many people look at CR.
 
Great post way up higher Mac; thanks for the rundown.



But what about this ... "Hey fellow CEOs at United, Delta, et al. We'll let you help indirectly fund our bailout, but your planes aren't safe enough for us to fly."
 
Teri hit the nail on the head there, people that read cr take it as gospel. But they forgot the part where lambs will be lead to slaughter. They promote those that buy ads and ignore the truth.

BF
 
They promote those that buy ads and ignore the truth
Click to expand...



Bruce - FYI, Consumer Reports does not accept outside advertising. They are published by Consumers Union, a public interest group funded by donations, subscription dollars, investments and other sources of revenue not associated with advertising.



Does that mean they are unbiased in their reporting? Hardly. All publications have some type of bias. And I'm sure Consumer Reports is reporting the "truth" as they see it (which does not necessarily mean accuracy!). However, at least Consumer Reports can honestly say that they don't report favorably based on commercial advertising, because they don't have any!

 
David,....It's not the Boss's that don't get it,..it's the MEDIA that doesn't "get it". these Co's have had those jets for YEARS....and they're paying for them whether they sit in a hanger or fly....so what makes MORE sense?? Letting them sit in a hanger and paying for them anyway even if they're not being used, in ADDITION to paying for commercial airline tickets....or using the jets you already own?? If you needed a "LOAN" for some reason and needed to drive to the bank........would you drive your car sitting in the driveway and making payments on...or would you RENT a car and pay for that as well as your car payment??



All 4 of those 'zec's can't fly there together in one plane anyway...but that's totally beside the point. (Their own company's individual insurance policies wouldn't even allow it probably!!) The issue at hand here is FAR BIGGER than the means by which they got to D.C!!. Those Congressmen/women have perks that are FAR MORE wasteful and far more ludicrous and cost us, the taxpayers, far more money than the "message" that was portrayed by flying to D.C in a private company jet!!! PUUULLEASE!!! Do you think the Exec's at AIG and Goldman Sach's and the banker's on Wall St. ALL fly commercial airlines???? Let's not focus on looking for "pennies" in the parking lot, when you need to pay your mortgage!!





Case in point...why the media is responsible for so much "misinformation":





What is the story behind GM
 
Have to agree with Mac on this one. The reason very large companies keep Corporate Jets, is so that the Exec's can get to where they need to go (and also continue working), with a minimum of travel time. That includes the time for security checks, baggage and the like.



Tex
 
Here's a real eye opener for those who still don't believe that letting the auto co's fail would be BAD. A little long, but well worth the read!!!





Tick, tick, tick...





By Peter M. De Lorenzo





Detroit. So it has come down to this for General Motors: 100 years of living, breathing American industrial and social history is on the precipice of total disaster, with the once-glittering corporate icon facing certain collapse if some sort of government financial aid package is not put together in the next 60 days.



Think about that for a moment.



The company that basically powered this nation through a century of progress and helped this country muster the strength to fight world wars - while contributing immeasurably to the fabric of America and the development of our vast middle class - is on the verge of filing bankruptcy.



Unbeknownst to the legions of people out there in
 
Mac: I must apologize for seemingly making light of GM and the plight of its thousands of workers at both GM locations and associated suppliers. Please know that I truly feel for you all and understand the ramifications of not losing GM, but losing a critical piece of our economic puzzle. Sorry.
 
No sweat Marty..I never felt like you were taking shots at me...no worries at all mate! We're all in THIS one together,....this isn't your typical "bad quarter" or a bad "year" or blip on the earnings radar.....this could be a life changing event for MILLIONS of people for a LONG time. My Parents and Grandparents talked about living thru the "depression"...very tough times with a lot of sacrifice!! I could never relate though, 'cuz I grew up in the 60's-80's and never felt deprived or "poor".....life was GOOD!! But This is SCARY and we're about to fall into a REAL economic catastrophy that even the moron's in congress don't seem to understand!! THAT's beyond comprehension.



Again,....you don't need to apologize to me....I like to find humor in stuff as much as possible myself....if we don't laugh at ourselves or each other once in awhile we'll all take ouselves to seriously and end up like Barney Frank!! Please shoot me if that ever happens!!! ;)
 
Peter M. De Lorenzo is a 'paid' consultant to the Auto Industry. That's how he makes his living. Not sure that I'm willing to take as gospel, what he has to say.



That, and if we are going to help the 'domestic Auto industry', I take that to mean anyone building in the US, employing American workers. Not just the traditional Big Three, located primarily in the Detroit area.



The biggest obstacle that I read about (spent quite a bit of time reading various articles about the hearings and such the past few days) is this: Why should the goverment be in the business of bailing out companies, that have a poor business plan; make products that people aren't buying; and have over extended themselves with prior committments? And I don't mean that to be only the Auto Industry, by any means.



Personally, I really do not believe that GM is about to shut the doors. If they do fail, they will very likely go through the 'negotiated bankruptcy' scenario that is being discussed, and is somewhat common. What that means is that they will continue to be a viable company, but greatly re-configured and different than they are today.



It's not a good situation, regardless. Too many good hard working people are being affected, or will be affected.



Tex
 
You make some valid points, but they are also indicative of just how complex an issue this is. I don't think the government should be in the business of bailing out companies, but then again, are they really just bailing out a company or is it much more? Negotiated bankruptcies help the target company, but do little to help all the downstream suppliers.



Let's not forget one thing about the depression. The government spent a ton of money on work projects, eetc to help people thruogh the crisis. Is spending money [or guaranteeing loans, etc] really any different?
 
The government wouldn't have to bailout (Wall st.) or LOAN money (Big 3) to companies if they would just put a LOT more thought into their own policies and practices BEFORE they enact them in the FIRST place!! This whole bail-out scenerio and financial melt-down is a DIRECT RESULT of the ridiculous and totally irresponsible policies of the Governement and their sub-prime mortgage business model!! Once again...here is a classic case where Government is the CAUSE of the problem...and now we have to rely on them for a solution!!!



Tex,...just because somebody is a "consultant" to an industry,.....doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about....and it doesn't make them an expert either....but being VERY familiar with the depth of the auto industrial roots in this area....he's dead nuts ON!! And the repurcussions of a Chapter 11 will be global...not just local! When Toyota's CEO says, "DON'T let the Big 3 fail,...or we will ALL Fail"....I tend to put some faith in his credibility!!
 
There was an interesting News piece on the DFW stations last night, about all this. The Arlington plant basically builds SUV's and such. Almost every night, there is a piece on the crisis, the Arlington plant, and the other businesses in the area.



Last night, it was about a company with about 25 (may have been 35) employees, that install after market products onto SUV's that are going to Police Departments and the like. The owner saw a need, started a company and has built it up. He of course, wants the Arlington plant to stay open so that his buiness can stay open. I certainly have no problem with that at all.



However, when you go in business, you take a 'risk'. I know that, for I was in business, took a risk, and it didn't work out in the long run. Successful for a period of time, but the model I had wouldn't/couldn't sustain itself. For this business (the add on shop), he has all his eggs in one basket. Never, never, a good situation.



Just as GM has to do 'something' (and likely Ford/Chrysler also); the suppliers to these companies/industry, may have to do something also.



Tex
 
JUST HEARD they reached a compromise and congress will approve the "LOAN"...I haven't heard anymore details, but this was just posted on our newsline!! SEE,..we DO build good stuff!! Now if the damn media would just spread the word!!!





ALL GM BRANDS ABOVE AVERAGE IN LATEST J.D. POWER REPORT
 
Mac,



On one hand I'm certainly happy, but let's remember, only 4 Senators have reached an agreement: 2 from Michigan, 1 from Ohio and 1 from Missippi. They still have a myriad of hurldes to overcome.



Press Conference at 2:30PM EST.



Tex
 
i know...like i said,...I don't know any of the details yet....only a quick blurb on the news.......but any progress is GOOD.....better than a stalemate or outright denial!!
 
They are coming back in December to make a final ruling on this.



Keep reading. Open your eyes too.



This is essential to the future of our country. Unless we all want to work for Walmart.
 
Now you've done it! Dissing a bloated giant like GM is one thing, but Walmart provides jobs and provides products that people without GM wages/salaries can afford.
 
Bloated Giant??.......maybe 20 years ago.........the GM of today looks like it went to Ethiopia for 5 years!! (In a private Jet of course!!:rolleyes: )



We're 1/2 the size we were just 3 years ago!!!:blink:
 
Well, one thing is for sure. If the Big Boys that went to Washington, don't improve their message and information significantly before their next trip in December, they will be sent home again empty handed.



There will be lot's of lobbying the next 10 days. I'm guessing that many of the Congressmen when they are home for the holidays, will get an earful from their constitutents.



I for one, certainly want to see the US Automakers survive. But they have got to get their house in order. Period. Throwing money at 'industry', generally never solved anything. Obviously, they have had plenty of money over the last 5 years (that 2 Billion a month that GM is plowing through, had to come from somewhere) - and are not in a position to be successful today.



And this is from a guy, that has many, many co-workers at GM facilities providign IT services. If GM re-orgs or goes belly up, our group loses quite a few jobs. EDS has a huge presence in the Detroit area, primarily to support the Auto Industy.



Tex
 
I think the Exec's went to DC fully expecting the LEADERS of this country to be FAR MORE INFORMED AND INTELLIGENT about the VERY Industry that provides 4-5% of our GNP!! Some of the questions they were asking were so outlandishly STUPID, irrelivent, and at times just oozing hypocrisy, that it just PROVED beyond a doubt that our own congress is completely out of touch with middle class america and has no idea of how important and deeply rooted the auto industry is in this country!! I think the Zec's were somewhat un-prepaired to be able to talk down to their level of intelligence that the congress was displaying!! How do you prepair to defend yourself when the people out to hang you are so ignorant that they wouldn't understand anyway??? It was ridiculous!!!



AND,.....it also proves how biased our media is towards the imports and how they don't report on the most basic technological advancements we've been working on for the past 10 years,...yet Congress can accuse us of not being innovative?! I wasn't embarrased for the Auto Co's leaders,.....I'm embarrased for the future of our country...we are in deeeeep chit with those clowns calling the shots!! DEEEEP DEEEEP Chit!!!:angry:
 
Brother, you hit the nail on the head!! Unfortunately those lame, worthless, self-serving idiots in congress are holding all of our thumbs on top of the nail as the hammer repeatitively falls. When are we going to say enough is enough and do something about it??? I believe the answer to that will come sooner than later. :angry:



Lock and load! It's going to get worse before it gets better.... :(
 
Bloated? That must have been a typo. It should have read "valued."



And don't forget, there is going to be a lot of jockeying for position as these idiots posture themselves for plump committee assignments under the Bin Laden presidency.
 
LOL...."Bloated" would be a kind word a few years ago......"Obese" was more accurate!!

We really are a HELLUVA lot leaner now...salaried headcount alone is 50% less and UAW reduction figures are probably higher. and, even with those reductions we're still building, better, faster, higher quality and with a lot less people! I will say we STILL have WAY to much mgt though...way to top heavy there for sure!!! Congress should be more concerned with why we need 100's of VP's (with more getting promoted/created WEEKLY) than why we need a leased jet!!



But...let's not demand too much intelligence from Congress...they just need to be "present" to eventually get elected President!!:wacko::rolleyes:

 
I heard they are planning on driving to Washington DC in hybrids this time. Then they will get bashed for not car pooling!
 
Consumer Reports - I would NEVER buy a car based on whatever CR says about it! But I would look at what they had to say and then either add or subtract it to everything else I had researched from other sources. Buying a car based on what an organization that tests automobiles and then runs down the hall to test toasters has to say is ludicrous!





Uncle Billy
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

BrettL
2020 Mercury 250 Pro XS Shift Actuator
Replies
10
Views
4K
BrettL
BrettL
R
NEVER BUY NITRO or anything from white river marine and here's why
2
Replies
24
Views
3K
rhinopro
R
7
Boat For Sale 1997 700lx w/90HP V4 upgrade for sale
Replies
0
Views
554
700xl
7
PourSomeHenny
New Member 95 Nitro 190TF
Replies
9
Views
2K
Chobeemauga
Chobeemauga
S
2021 Nitro Z19 Sport 200ProXs Ride quality
Replies
14
Views
2K
Z-Man 21XL
Z-Man 21XL

Latest posts

Back
Top