Hydrofoil

[Cade McDaniel]

For my second post of the day...... Does anyone have a suggestion when it comes to hydrofoils.... I have a 1990 115 Johnson on a 17" 1990 Nitro Fish n' Ski. Boat currently has an old hydrofoil (I think it is an "Original Doel-Fin") and am wondering if anyone has a suggestion for an upgrade.



Thanks

 

[Derek Chance]

the SE Sport 3000 is a good foil.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Common response is that a foil is a band-aid fix for a set up problem.......unless.......you fish flats...and a few other reasons.



TOXIC

 

[TrepMan]

Cade - A well respected older member (Pat) would ask the following first: What are your numbers today (RPMs at WOT, GPS speed, Prop-2-pad measurement, current Prop specs...) and what is the boat doing today, and what do you want it to do? Do you want more top end? better hole shot, lower planing speeds....???

 

[Derek Chance]

a foil can also benefit a well set up rig in many ways....

 

[TritonGlenn]

dchance,

A properly set up rig - right engine (max hp for the given hull), right setback and height, perfect prop, balanced boat....



.... please tell me what benefit it would give to that rig?



I used to fight Pat on this subject, and have owned SE Sport hydrofoils on 3 boats. Pat was right. I was wrong. I now see things his way, after the proper amount of time, effort and money was spent getting things done right. If you have a boat set up right, you will not see a benefit after adding a hydrofoil. You can do like I did and tell yourself there is a difference, but break out the stopwatch and time it before and after adding the foil. I think you will find that you wasted your money. I also used to argue about being able to stay on plane at lower speeds until I learned a lot more about boat handling. It's not needed.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Derek Chance]

Glenn, I am one example of how it benefits. First off I do agree with you for a correctly rigged boat. In my situation I have a 901 (very heavy) with a 200 hp EFI. 200 is the max hp for that boat. the problem is, it is a small block 2.5 liter efi and not the 3.0 liter. Because of this it lacks low end power. The foil does help me get out of the hole in MY situation. They are good for more than just holeshot though. I fish many night tourneys on Lake of the Ozarks which has a speed limit at night. the foil helps stay on plane at slow speeds without porpoising. that is one benefit anybody can enjoy from a foil. The fact that they are out of the water at WOT simply means that they cannot "hurt" you even if you are setup correctly. as cheap as the SE Sports are they are a good investment in my opinion. Ugly as hell but beneficial to an extent.

 

[Dan J.]

The fact that they are out of the water at WOT simply means that they cannot "hurt" you even if you are setup correctly.

I've witnessed experienced boaters make a necessary sharp turn with a foil that crushes your theory. You want to turn a bass boat into a carnival ride quick, add a foil.



They do have their purpose. I have one on my flats boat. (19.5' Carolina Skiff) when I'm in a foot or less of water, I can raise the jackplate/engine and start forward momentum as I lower down increasing speed. This puts little 'ol me and a buddy up on plane without bottoming out or skegging. I would never have one on a graduated step hull like a bass boat. In addition to that, I've seen and replaced a lower unit at a customers expense directly due to the foil. (Mercury voids the warranty on the gearcase at affected area and any resulting damage due to installation and/or undue stress.) The pot metal that lower units are cast from can radiate a spider from a cavitation plate hole and sink a $2500 lower unit that was perfectly fine before. Much of that has to do with install, I hope. (Over-tightening?) If you have one, check the bolts and area around them before each trip. Any sign of cracking and pull that thing off, hopefully before the expensive damage is done.

 

[TritonGlenn]

dchance,

I think you and I are on the same page. Although I would agree that it might "help" in your situation, I stand by my original assertion that if your boat was set up perfectly (in your case - a 3.0), the foil would not give you any added benefit. Dan J's comment above -

I've witnessed experienced boaters make a necessary sharp turn with a foil that crushes your theory. You want to turn a bass boat into a carnival ride quick, add a foil.

- I fully agree with. I've had the SE Sport 300 on a 150 Johnson, and had to make a quick turn at full speed. You know the minute it grabs the water. :blink:



I've never heard of anyone having issues with gearcase cracking like Dan J mentioned, but I'm sure it's happened to someone.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Rick Hale]

never heard of anyone having issues with gearcase cracking

Taked to a walleye pro..Gary Parsons last year or so -- Said years ago -- This could be a problem--In extream weather conditions with certain foils.

I was thinking about a foil on my 18' deep "V". Dealer said i may not like the way the boat handled ???? So I have not.



Have fun

Rick

 

[Derek Chance]

Glenn, I agree and wish I had a 3.0 It does help from porpoising too.



Dan J., I was mainly addressing a frequently asked question about losing mph at WOT. Not many I know are taking corners at WOT. As far as I know it is out of the water at or close to WOT.

 

[TritonGlenn]

dchance - my '97 Cajun's bow bounced (porpoised) like a stoner at Headbangers Ball. After getting the jackplate and new prop - that went away completely.



If you haven't seen many taking corners at WOT, then you probably have never experienced a tournament on one of the Virginia / NC tidal rivers. I've seen boats 3 wide heading into corners at WOT in the morning. Even when you aren't at WOT, when you turn, that foil WILL be in the water. I gaurantee the tips on one side are in the water, acting like a second skeg.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[T.J. LESS]

I SECOND THE SPORT SE 300. I RUN A 2000 TARGA 2000 (20 FT FIBERGLASS WALLEYE BOAT) THAT IS VERY TRANSOM HEAVY ALSO HOLDS A 9.9 4 STROKE KICKER MOTOR AND A 225 OPTIMAX MAIN MOTOR. THIS SETUP RAN FOR ABOUT 6 YEARS WITH THE ADVISE OF A COUPLE OF PWT PROS WHOM RAN THE SAME SETUP. I REPOWERED IN 2008 WITH A 225 E-TEC AND DID NOT MOUNT THE HYDROFOIL RIGHT AWAY, AFTER THE 4TH TEST RUN WITH DIFFERENT PROPS AND MOTOR HEIGHT ADJUSTMENT ( just could not get the boat to a drivable state), I FINALLY CONVINCED THE DEALER TO REMOUNT THE HYDROFOIL ON THE E-TEC AND HE COULD NOT BELIEVE THE DIFFERENCE IT ACTUALLY MADE WERE TALKING ABOUT A 80% INCREASE IN EFFICIENCY IN THE WAY BOAT HANDLES. THE HYDROFOIL HAS EXTREMELY HELPED IN GETTING ON PLANE MUCH QUICKER, stayin on plane at much lower speeds AND ALSO ELIMINATING A GREAT DEAL OF THE PORPOSING ISSUES ASSOCIATED WITH WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION. iT HAS BEEN SAID THAT YOU MAY SEE A DECREASE IN TOP END BY 1 TO 2 MPH DUE TO THE DRAG, BUT IT IS NOT THAT NOTICABLE I RUN A 3 BLADE 23INCH STAINLESS PROP AND GET MID 60'S WITH 2 PEOPLE 1/2 FULL MAIN TANK AND RESERVE TANK FULL GAS APPROX 30 GALLONS, 5 BATTERIES (4)29 SERIES plus a starter and FISHING gear for about 10 people.