Uncanny photo

[fatrap]

This isn't a political statement so you democrats take it easy.

fatrap

 

[Bill McElroy]

LMAO!!!!..now THAT's priceless!!!!

 

[Julio Santana]

Nope..



But I'll make one..



a political statement would have been a fish flopping from one side of the deck to the other and back again. LOL



When Kerry's done debating himself, he'll probably be ready to debate Bush.



By the way...They are going to release that list of foreign leaders supporting Kerry. I've heard these are a few of 'em.



Chriac - France - White surrender flag included. Plans to ship French rifles to Hussein supporters in Iraq after Kerry pulls the troops out or before...what the heck would he have to fear from Kerry anyway..a Dictator's yes man. These rifles are almost new French Army issue...never fired and only dropped once.



Hussein - Formerly Iraq, now Grey Bar Hotel Manager



Bin Laden - Hiding out 'till it's safe if Kerry wins in November otherwise might spend up to 4 more years in hiding or until nabbed by Bush...dead or alive...preferably dead.



Arafat - Palestinian Terrorist er...leader. His motto...We bomb...you keep negotiating.



Kim Jong Il - North Korea...for sure looking for an appeaser with Clinton-esque qualities to give him a few nukes for "Power Plants for the People".



Kadafi - Asking if he can get his nukes back if Kerry wins. After all, George W was a meanie for making him give those up. We can trust Kadafi with nukes right?

 

[Travis Smith]

Scary resmeblence isnt there?



I love it.



T.S.

 

[Greg Meyer]

I think that insults Gomer/Jim Nabors and the whole Marine Corps. In no way does John Kerry resemble any Marine.

 

[fatrap]

Your right Greg. Gomer was way above Kerry as a human being. Atleast he was honest, heck the character Nabor's played was a Marine.



fatrap

 

[Larry Harp]

Jim Nabors was in fact not a Marine, but an actor who played a bumbling but lovable Marine recruit in an idiotic 60's spinoff sitcom.

On the other hand;

John Kerry entered the Navy after graduation from Yale University, becoming a Swift Boat officer, serving on a gunboat in the Mekong Delta in Vietnam. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat.



By the time Senator Kerry returned home from Vietnam, he felt compelled to question decisions he believed were being made to protect those in positions of authority in Washington at the expense of the soldiers carrying on the fighting in Vietnam. Kerry was a co-founder of the Vietnam Veterans of America and became a spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War -- Morley Safer would describe him as "a veteran whose articulate call to reason rather than anarchy seemed to bridge the gap between Abbie Hoffman and Mr. Agnew's so-called 'Silent Majority.'" In April 1971, testifying before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he asked the question of his fellow citizens, "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" Sen. Claiborne Pell, (D-R.I.) thanked Kerry, then 27, for testifying before the committee, expressing his hope that Kerry "might one day be a colleague of ours in this body."



Fourteen years later, John Kerry would have the opportunity to fulfill those hopes - serving side by side with Sen. Pell as a Member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. But in the intervening years, Kerry graduated from Boston College Law School and found different ways to fight for those things in which he believed. Time and again, Kerry fought to hold the political system accountable and to do what he believed was right. As a top prosecutor in Middlesex County, Kerry took on organized crime and put the Number Two mob boss in New England behind bars. He modernized the District Attorney's office, creating an innovative rape crisis crime unit, and as a lawyer in private practice he worked long and hard to prove the innocence of a man wrongly given a life sentence for a murder he did not commit.



In 1984, after winning election as Lieutenant Governor in 1982, Kerry ran and was elected to serve in the United States Senate, running and winning a successful PAC-free Senate race and defeating a Republican opponent buoyed by Ronald Reagan's reelection coattails. Like his predecessor, the irreplaceable Paul Tsongas, Kerry came to the Senate with a reputation for independence -- and reinforced it by making tough choices on difficult issues: breaking with many in his own Party to support Gramm-Rudman Deficit Reduction; taking on corporate welfare and government waste; pushing for campaign finance reform; holding Oliver North accountable and exposing the fraud and abuse at the heart of the BCCI scandal; working with John McCain in the search for the truth about Vietnam veterans declared POW/MIA; and insisting on accountability, investment, and excellence in public education.



Sen. Kerry was re-elected in 1990, again in 1996, defeating the popular Republican Governor William Weld in the most closely watched Senate race in the country, and in 2002. Now serving his fourth term, Kerry has worked to reform public education, address children's issues, strengthen the economy and encourage the growth of the high tech New Economy, protect the environment, and advance America's foreign policy interests around the globe.



Now I ask, Which one did more for his country?



Harpo

 

[Tom Jones]

Being elected to public office does not necessarily mean your serving your country.

Tom

 

[Larry Harp]

You're right Tom, that's why we have elections, to oust the ones who don't serve their country.



Harpo

 

[Greg Meyer]

Harpo...



In 1971, John Kerry did not speak for me and for thousands of other Vietnam veterans. In fact, much of what he testified too was, in my opinion, in the best light "spin" or as I see it a deliberate and gross distortion of the truth. He asserted many things that can be factually contradicted... He said that African Americans bore a greatly disportionate burden of deaths and casualties... Simply not true... He also asserted that American servicemen routinely..."raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country." That is in my experience not true. I spent almost 5 times as long there as he did... (20 months versus 4) He served in a very small unit and area... I served all over Northern I Corps (the northern most part of the country from the western border to the sea). I saw the horror of war... And, I did not see or know of "war crimes"... If I had, I can guarantee you I and other Marine Officers would have dealt with it severely... I consider his testimony almost personally insulting. In addition, when the Naval Investigative Service attempted to interview the so-called witnesses that Kerry relied on from his Winter Soldiers hearings in Detroit, most refused to cooperate, even after assurances that they would not be questioned about atrocities they may have committed personally. Those that did cooperate never provided details of actual crimes to investigators. The NIS also discovered that some of the most grisly testimony was given by fake witnesses who had appropriated the names of real Vietnam veterans. Guenter Lewy tells the entire study in his book, America in Vietnam.





Further...The record shows something very different from what Kerry "testified to" ; very different, indicating that 86 percent of those who died during the war were white and 12.5 percent were black, from an age group in which blacks comprised 13.1 percent of the population. Two thirds of those who served in Vietnam were volunteers, and volunteers accounted for 77 percent of combat deaths.



Kerry portrayed the Vietnam veteran as ashamed of his service, he said;



"We wish that a merciful God could wipe away our own memories of that service as easily as this administration has wiped their memories of us. But all that they have done and all that they can do by this denial is to make more clear than ever our own determination to undertake one last mission, to search out and destroy the last vestige of this barbaric war, to pacify our own hearts, to conquer the hate and the fear that have driven this country these last ten years and more, and so when in 30 years from now our brothers go down the street without a leg, without an arm, or a face, and small boys ask why, we will be able to say "Vietnam" and not mean a desert, not a filthy obscene memory, but mean instead the place where America finally turned and where soldiers like us helped it in the turning."



In fact, a comprehensive 1980 survey commissioned by Veterans' Administration (VA) reported that 91 percent of those who had seen combat in Vietnam were "glad they had served their country;" 80 percent disagreed with the statement that "the US took advantage of me;" and nearly two out of three would go to Vietnam again, even knowing how the war would end.



I am not here to rekindle the debate about Vietnam... But, I will not allow John Kerry to be glorified for his 1971 "stunt"... a "stunt" that was at the expense of thousands of Americans who served honorably and the thousands who died there while serving th
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/s...ces/Primary/Manifestos/VVAW_Kerry_Senate.html

 

[Julio Santana]

Good thing Kerry put in for his own purple hearts. Nothing like serving that hard four months in Vietnam then using the purple hearts to get the heck out of there, come back and slam your fellow soldiers. Some service to the country. He was hanging with Hanoi Jane Fonda. Don't hold your breath waiting for the medical records on his purple hearts. I'm willing to bet they were band aid purple hearts and that's why he won't release his medical records.



If this guy is so fond of the military, why did he vote in Congress to cut the CIA Intelligence funding by $1.2 Billion, cut the Patriot Missile, the B1 bomber, the B2 bomber, and just about every other major advanced weapons system our military uses today? Some supporter of our troops... He supports them as long as they use no more than clubs and rocks.



He says he supports the troops and wouldn't even vote for the money to allow them to continue to do their job in Iraq...even while they are there and there's nothing he can do about it.



Besides...I don't hear anyone saying they actually support Kerry...what I hear a lot of is "Anyone but Bush." I bet the terrorists are saying the same thing about now too.

 

[Larry Harp]

Greg,

The subject of Vietnam is one that will debated for decades to come. I have read your viewpoints and although you are well informed and have more first hand information than I, I still must disagree on some points.

Unlike some of the other memebers who were comparing a clown to a decorated American veteran and statesman, I was involved in the war. Although I did not serve in country I did see the war coming and going through my post at Anderson AFB in Guam. I saw the boys coming off the med-evac flights with muddy boots and bloody bandages. I also talked to many of them and also to old friends of mine from home, who were in country, and I heard the stories you say are lies. I heard stories about taking two prisoners up in a helicopter, throwing one out before interegation of the other began. It helped "loosen them up", I was told by a nineteen year old who thought it was funny. I was told stories of rapes, and buying the services of prostitutes who were too young to drive a car back in the world. The drug abuse, the murder of officers by enlisted men, and the coruption were all stories that were told to me first hand, not somethng I read in Rolling Stone. A good friend of mine now, who as a capitan in the Army tells me, that at least once a month he had to send a troop home while still addicted to herion. He spent three tours there and was told that if he didn't go back for one more year he would be passed over. He decided to come home. I think we can all rememeber Lt. Cally and Capt. Medina. All this because John Kennedy was afraid of McCarthy and his right-wing thugs would accuse him of being "soft on communism" and because Lyndon Johnson was afraid that Barry Goldwater would accuse him of being "soft on communism" and win the election of 64. After elected he saw that he had us mired in a trap that we could neither win nor escape so he gave up and walked away. Then Nixon comes along with "peace with honor". The only honor he sought was prolonging the hopeless war long enough get re-elected by calling McGovern(a decorated WWII hero) "soft on communism". Well, we finally got peace but it sure wasn't very honorable. Is it any wonder that a bright well educated young man comes home and after seeing all that went on over there decides to speak out to stop it, instead of keeping his mouth shut in fear of being called "soft on communisum" or perhaps 30 years later having the son of privilege who did nothing to serve his country, call him un-american. I just do not understand why you call his speech to Congress a "stunt that was at the expense of thousands who died there serving their country." Was Kerry not wounded serving his country? Did he not have the same freedom of speech that every other American including the henchmen that Nixon sicked on him? Are the only people in this country with rights the ones who agree with you? Or the President you voted for? Is there not room for another opinion? Are we not taught by the founding fathers to question authority?



I guess all I really wanted to say is one may not agree with John Kerry. If not then don't vote for him. But, he has certianly done more for his country than Gomer Pyle, for crying out loud.



Harpo

 

[Larry Harp]

President Overstates Kerry's Record on Intelligence Budget





March 12, 2004



Washington Post

By Walter Pincus and Dana Milbank









President Bush, in his first major assault on Sen. John F. Kerry's legislative record, said this week that his Democratic opponent proposed a $1.5 billion cut in the intelligence budget, a proposal that would "gut the intelligence services," and one that had no co-sponsors because it was "deeply irresponsible."





In terms of accuracy, the parry by the president is about half right. Bush is correct that Kerry on Sept. 29, 1995, proposed a five-year, $1.5 billion cut to the intelligence budget. But Bush appears to be wrong when he said the proposed Kerry cut -- about 1 percent of the overall intelligence budget for those years -- would have "gutted" intelligence. In fact, the Republican-led Congress that year approved legislation that resulted in $3.8 billion being cut over five years from the budget of the National Reconnaissance Office -- the same program Kerry said he was targeting.



The $1.5 billion cut Kerry proposed represented about the same amount Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), then chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, told the Senate that same day he wanted cut from the intelligence spending bill based on unspent, secret funds that had been accumulated by one intelligence agency "without informing the Pentagon, CIA or Congress." The NRO, which designs, builds and operates spy satellites, had accumulated that amount of excess funds.



Bush's charge that Kerry's broader defense spending reduction bill had no co-sponsors is true, but not because it was seen as irresponsible, as the president suggested. Although Kerry's measure was never taken up, Specter's plan to reduce the NRO's funds, which Kerry co-sponsored with Sen. Richard C. Shelby (R-Ala.), did become law as part of a House-Senate package endorsed by the GOP leadership.



In his campaign speech Monday, Bush said that in 1995, "two years after the [first] attack on the World Trade Center, my opponent introduced a bill to cut the overall intelligence budget by one-and-a-half billion dollars. His bill was so deeply irresponsible that he didn't have a single co-sponsor in the United States Senate. Once again, Senator Kerry is trying to have it both ways. He's for good intelligence, yet he was willing to gut the intelligence services. And that is no way to lead a nation in a time of war."



Bush repeated the charge in New York last night, saying, "Intelligence spending is necessary, not wasteful."



White House spokesman Trent Duffy referred questions about Monday's speech to the Bush-Cheney campaign because "it was a campaign speech." Terry Holt, spokesman for the campaign, said he will look into the origins of the speech because he did not know about the situation in 1995. But, he said, "The president was using one very appropriate example of Kerry's lack of commitment to the intelligence community."



On Sept. 29, 1995, Kerry introduced S. 1290, the "Responsible Deficit Reduction Act of 1995." On page 5 of the 16-page bill, Kerry proposed to "Reduce the Intelligence budget by $300 million in each of fiscal years 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, and 2000." The item was one of 17 cuts Kerry proposed from the Defense budget, including a phaseout of two Army light divisions and ending production of Trident D5 submarine-launched ballistic missiles. The bill also proposed 17 non-defense cuts, including ending the international space station and reducing federal support for agriculture research and various changes to government purchasing.



Five days before Kerry introduced his legislation, The Washington Post reported that the NRO had hoarded $1 billion to $1.7 billion of unspent funds without informing the CIA or the Pentagon. Months earlier, the CIA had launched an inquiry into the NRO's funding after complaints by lawmakers t

 

[Greg Meyer]

Harpo,



I do not deny that there were war crimes committed. Of the millions of men and women who served in Vietnam, the Defense Department had documented about 300 cases of actionable/chargeable conduct. Even if that number is some fraction... it does not equate to anything approaching routine. As for the stories told to you... While you were in Guam I was leading a Marine Infantry Platoon "in country" so I am the one who put those boys in harms way and then put them on the helicopters and planes when they were wounded or killed. And, I am telling you I saw none of what Kerry described... none! Over beers and cards I, too, "heard" plenty of almost "urban legend" like stories... but I never had anything reported to me nor did I ever witness anything like it... So my skepticism has some basis in experience not recounted tales.



I have said my piece here on the causes, political and other, of our involvement. I have also made my position clear on the results of our involvement. I don't think it is necessary to rehash that issue. We will just disagree on the points.



Now, why do I call John Kerry's (actually it was Adam Walinsky's speech presented by John Kerry) a "stunt"? I do so because he deliberately, unwittingly (for some of it) or maybe even recklessly asserted as "facts" things that were not true. He had an agenda that he was serving... and that agenda was not the "truth". The reputations of the millions of men and women who he served with deserved better than to be used by him as "pawns" for his political agenda. He presented a "spin" to the American public that simply was not a true reflection of the facts. Oh, he has the right to say almost anything, but in sworn testimony before a Congressional Committee one hopes that the "truth" is what is presented.



And, I will continue to be critical of Kerry if he is represented to be something more than he is or was... And, I did not serve almost four years in the Marine Corps and then another 17 as a police officer defending only the rights of those that agreed with me... For over 20 years I put my life on the line for all of my fellow citizens on a daily basis. So, yes, I will willingly defend your right to any "opinion" you may hold... But, I will also challenge you on any "facts" that are not accurate... I like to have the whole "story" not spin... I like to have real facts not spin... So, the fact that he was a decorated wounded veteran does not get him any slack from adhering to the truth. In fact, he was, in my opinion, obligated by his position to be careful to only speak the truth.



But, I am seeing a trend in his present campaign rhetoric to run fast and loose with facts and spin... why am I not surprised?

 

[Mark Gross]

SURPRAZE,SURPRAZE,SURPRAZE !

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I have to agree with Greg though I was hoping this thread would just go away.

I served with the 101st Airbirne Div., as an 11-b and primarily stayed in the Au Shau Valley for the duration of my tour. I NEVER, EVER, saw any of the atrocities that have been mentioned here. Like Greg, I heard stories that were told by "someone" who heard it from "someone" at HQ while on stand-down, who also heard it from "someone" when they were last in the rear. A lot of these stories were started and continued on by "war heroes" who never saw action or left their rear areas..

As for drug use, I am sure it went on, IN THE REAR by non-combat troops.. It simply would not have been tolerated in the field by anyone.

As for Lt. Calley, I am not sure we will ever find out what exactly happened. My own opinion is that he didn't have the training necessary to lead troops and lost control of his command. Too many junior officers and troops were rushed over there before they should have been and then received no in-country training when they got there. And they weren't Airborne. I may take a hit for that comment but I truly believe it made a difference.

I don't know about the Marines but did have a chance to be in the field with them a number of times. I also never heard them describe any atrocities like I've heard here.

Make no mistake, the unit I was with and I am sure the same applies to Greg's, the job was to kill the enemy. It was done with great efficiency, especially in I Corp. It was not pretty and I did NOT want to be there but am very proud that I served and would do it again.



Bill

 

[Greg Meyer]

Hey Bill... You can help me out here... I heard that they used two dostors giving you airborne guys a physical... They put each doctor on a small stool across from each other and then you guys stood in between them... If the doctors each looked in an ear and could see each other they let you be airborne... Is that true?... J/k... LOLOLOLOL



Jump school was not my favorite thing... I became much more reluctant after my first jump... The thrill got lost in the reality of what I had just done... I am so very glad that they never had us do it for real... it takes a long time to get down to the ground when you realize you will look like one of the top shelf prize targets at the county fair shooting gallery...

 

[Bud Martz]

One also has to remember that first day when you stand up and raise your hand. I remember it went something like, "I promised to defend and uphold the constitution of the United States of America against all enemies foreign and domestic". It goes on to say you will do this even if you have to give your life. Kerry is your typical "What can I do that is popular now" kind of guy. I have to beleive that all the common sense Americans will see right through this guy. Get ready for the BS, it will get deep come november. Guess I will vote for Bush and go fishing in my boat that is powered by gas that was imported from another country due to the Dems not wanting to open up the Artic reserve. I am sure I will hear about that one. Fact still remains that freedom is not easy, bloodless, or clean like some would like us to think. You have to roll up your sleeves and get dirty to keep the peace. I just hope we can all agree that the soldier keeps us safe, not the politician.



Bud

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

That's about true Greg It also helped with the downdraft on the way down... I too was less than thrilled after the first jump but I was young and dumb. Seriously though, that extra training helped get me home and that's what I was looking for. That and the extra money...

Only two things fall from the sky, Fools and Birdsh**t.



Bill