UGLY thread started on the Bash Fishing Home Page

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TrepMan

TrepMan

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Check out the latest - I feel sorry for the guy (Jamie Polk) but once again wonder at the whole story. It also reminds me I don't remember the Gentleman who posted his TV18 on www.boattraderonline.com as to what he hoped to gain in the end result - sorry if I missed your reply.



http://www.wmi.org/bassfish/bassboard/boats_motors/T60061.htm
 
this must be a diffrent one,since the other one was an aluminum boat with some corosion on the hull.this one is a top cap cracking deal.oh well,read it,believe it,the jurys out!
 
Trep,



I just posted a reply to him inviting him to visit here and share his problem with us...might get the whole story...or more. Seems plausible that "delay" is his biggest problem. And, it nevers look as bad to the other guy as it does to "me"...may affect response times. But, still...a delay of "months" at the factory would be very frustrating and should be addressed. I am honestly concerned when I read these stories. I'm maybe as early as next spring going to add a Bassboat to my "stable" (gonna miss the wife when she leaves me!!!) and am concerned that I could get caught in one of these finger pointing, not me...it's the dealer...it's the factory...things. The last thing I want purchase is the right to become Trackers Quality Control Department. If I (or any other customer) has a defective (not some trivial issue, but a deformed, misaligned, twisted, bulged...etc. hull) new boat I don't deserve to get a 3-6 month wait for a "fix"...I deserve what I paid for...a new boat in good condition. I seldom hear of Tracker "eating" a bad one and replacing it...I hear about "fixes"...That concerns me.
 
Rest assured, Tracker has replaced many boats....more than 10 from my location alone this year. We hear the horror stories all too often, but we don't hear the good ones often enough, as when Tracker replaces a 2,3 or 4 year old boat at no expense to the customer.
 
Well Ken if you would drill that mounting hole in the deck not the hull...a few less replacements.... LOL That is what I am trying to say in my own unclear vague way...we need a more active response by Tracker to these posts. You have factory reps from Guest, Fishing Hot Spots, Genetron, and others on the boards all the time... Tracker needs to be present... Perception is sometimes the biggest component of reality!
 
oh comeon ken,dont be so hard on yourself there!!!



as you said all you hear is the horror stories,not the good.i guess it is like that all over.right scott!



ranger has been getting some bad press on the bash homepage quite a few times lately.the ones on the walleyecentral board the same,ranger,triton,and crestliners also.



no one dealer/manufacturer is immune to bad press!
 
I too am afraid to purchase a new 896 or 901 for fear of bad customer service,because of lack of support from tracker. Just my two cents worth...
 
Those type of posts really upset me. I feel sorry for the guy. Personally, that is why I purchased a disposable Tin boat.



I don't worry about cosmetics just fishability. When things need repair, I fix them because my part-time Tracker dealer can't. Sractches and dents are less painful.



And when the time comes that it's too bad to fix, I'll recycle it for beer and pop cans and that it good for the environment.



Mine it the perfect boat and a win-win for everyone.





Bear
 
Update - check post http://www.wmi.org/bassfish/bassboard/boats_motors/T60088.htm



It seems that Tracker has fixed his problem but won't gaurantee the work past standard factory warranty since he ""slammed" Tracker Marine on the internet."



My opinion, and since i have not been in this guys (or others who have had bad problems with Tracker) is I don't blame Tracker for their stance. We need to be careful what we do with the "power" of instanaeous information exchange on the internet. Does it seem like the guy got a bad rap - Yes, Does he deserve to have the work warrantied further - Yes, do I blame a large company for not extending his warranty when he asked the world to send nasty letters to the company - No.



I guess in my view it's all about how you approach things and what you expect in return. I've had problems (small ones) post warranty with my boat and i've been able to work them out with the dealer with no problem. It will be interesting to see how this one works out.
 
I don't care what anyone says tracker has a huge customer service problem. I sent my 912 back to my dealer in October 2001 it was sent to Michigan in January and I got so fustrated I went down and picked it up myself in June. My boat sat outside for six months without a cover (they lost the one on the boat) for work that might have taken a week at best. They gave me the run around the whole time and never fixed the boat right in the end. Now I'm faced with having to deal with them again as the repairs they made have fallen apart. I don't think they replace boats because mine was a perfect candidate however they sent it out to some rinky ding shop (Kliens) to patch it up. Even the shop wasn't proud of there work I quote ( were not to proud of this one) My dealing with Justin and Nathan were unbelievable. They skirted every issue, if I was dealing with them again I would spell out every last detail take nothing for granted. I would have every piece of correspondence sent through my lawyer. I wouldn't trust either one of them as far as I could throw them.

Do I sound bitter I should I waited six months plus and have a boat that needs to go back for another six month wait.

I can speak from experience and I understand the guys problem and fustration.
 
I get a different read from the guy's post. He was frustrated and critical. But, I think it is foolish for Tracker's employees to punish him. In fact that has me very concerned. Any employee of mine that ever takes a customer service issue personally had better be on the high ground...And, we better be totally "clean".
 
why do you feel he is being punished.i to got promises that were broken,so i really dont feel sorry for him.but hey,my mistake,no one elses.should have got everything in writing,PERIOD!



if he followed a diffrent course of action,he might,i say might have got the extended warranty.maybe they would have replaced the boat,who knows what might happened if things were diffrent.



my total advice,get it fixed,then do what you want with it,sell it,trade it,whatever.if your not happy with what you got,then do something about it!look what i did,and went through,i solved the problem myself.the only thing i worry about,well,not worry is im glad i bought a tin(aluminum) boat!!



what i dont kind of get is why didnt he post his message here?could this be someones atempt at deep trolling??not sure?can anyone really be sure?no pictures of the boat to be seen?skeptical to me.anyone else??



oh well,time to make a few phone calls to the insurance co.looks like im off work till monday.they got me going to theraphy on my back.what a drag!!!



 
Sounds all TOO familiar once again! Seems to me they could resolve a lot of these issues with some more stringent QA! And secondly, BETTER customer service. IBM, Bell/Verizon, GE, Microsoft, Kmart, and OMC have ALL learned that you can NEVER get too big for your britches in today's market. I feel his pain, and to be point blank, totally honest, if I were to buy a new boat today, it would not be a Nitro. I will not spend my money to be treated that way. That is simply horrible, period! Bad business, and eventually, mark my words, the sky WILL come crashing down on those individual responsible. The truth is that though we say ALL boat mfrs have problems, you simply do not see the CONTINUED responses like this, and in the shear numbers that you do about Tracker Marine. All it's going to take is one company to offer a comparable priced boat with slightly better customer service, and Tracker Marine as you and I know it today will be in it over their eyeballs trying to stay afloat. Just mu .02, but I was there and I know how they treat people sometimes. When push came to shove, I had to get ugly. And a customer should NEVER EVER have to do that. Again, if I treated my customers (because I AM a sales CSR) the way Tracker does, I'd be fired, or lose half of my accts within a month!
 
And YES Scott, I know they're reading this thread! That is precisely WHY I posted as I did.
 
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm............ I seem to remember a similar situation in the auto industry back in the 70s.

It should prove to be interesting to see what changes occur in the boat business going forward.

I have to add that most of the bad rap that is associated with any product line goes back to how the dealer handles their customer service.

I drive a GMC Safari AWD because I could not find satisfactory service at the local Chevy dealer. Same exact vehicle but it is the dealer that leaves the lasting impression over the long haul.



If you don't believe that then why did my brother drive 1600 miles, round trip (in the dead-of-winter) to Michigan to get a boat from Ken.



Good dealers are a lot harder to find than a good boat!



T
 
True, until the dealer's hands get tied by corporate.
 
OK I started this thread so i'll throw one more piece in the mix for discussion.



If it were YOU and your boat went thru what this "madman" has gone thru (at least what he describes and we assume is true) or some of the other folks who have/are on this site and have had major problems. At what point would you USE the power of this site and others to ask for mass e-mail/calls in your favor to the manufacturer? And if you did would you phrase it like Madman did or would you take a different path.



Me, before i'd ever post like that - i'd start with certified return reciept letters to the folks i'd talked to at Tracker and management. Clearly and explicity (and friendly) describe in detail what I want to be done to my boat and warranty issues. I'd give them a specific time period to respond. If no response came, or it was not to my satisfaction, I would send (same certified... approach) a follow up specifying the actions I would take (like contacting the BBB, Marine Association and government agencies) to raise the visability of my problem. If that line of approach did not work then I would talk to a lawyer about options. I've just not seen myself where getting a mass of unknown folks to e-mail spam the vendor has worked.



Just my view and I look forward to yours, don't be shy.
 
How a company chooses to handle customer service and warranty decision making is clearly up to the management of the company. Management makes choices, and they gain or lose in the marketplace and on the balance sheet according to the wisdom of the choices.



However, these PDLAs (public displays lacking affection) between customers and Tracker customer service are flat out bad for business. What potential customer wouldn't be at least somewhat put off by repeatedly reading or hearing this stuff?



Tracker, your choices are your choices. However, for those of us that remain loyal and have concerns about resale and future Tracker purchases, please try to fix your reputation by whatever means you can.



Here's are three simple suggestions based on common themes we keep hearing:



1. Guarantee the customer's boat will be looked at within a week of arriving at the factory (and Tracker will communicate a course of action with the dealer in that time frame).



2. Based on the level of repair required, have it fixed and on the way back to the customer within another 30 days (less if for minor work). No customer should be shelling out multiple boat payments to a bank while the boat gets rained on in the factory lot, awaiting repairs. That's disrepectful of the customer's time and money.



3. Guarantee the customer their boat will be covered while in Tracker's posession, whether they come back to the factory with a cover or not. Leaving it uncovered out in the elements is disrespectful of the customer's boat. Tarps are cheap.



This is A-B-C customer service stuff. You may not be able to give the customer the exact treatment that they want in the context of warranty limitations, but if you respect the customer with your actions while dealing with them, it will go a long way.



My .02

 
John, your post is a classic mix of truth intermingled with blatantly ignorant remarks.



"You should be thanking this guy for pointing out business that don't care about the customer and consistently produce a bad product"



Most of us are Tracker or Nitro owners. Many of us have had very good experiences with these boats. I've had two very good Nitros, pretty much flawless. How does your logic apply to me and others here have had similarly good experiences? Are we part of the "consistently bad boats" crowd?



"This is all on Tracker Marine don't kid yourself and for them to refuse to give an extended warranty because he posted about his problems on a message board is ridiculous and on the verge of extortion."



Have you been present in the conversations that took place between all parties? Can you give personal references as to the integrity of the customer and the dealer involved? Do you know how the customer treated his boat? A quick bit of research on BFHP shows that at one point, Madman had a 12" jackplate for sale. I don't know if that has anything to do with this situation, but it made me realize that I might not yet have the whole story. Was that plate ever on the 884? Does Tracker warranty any hull or gell cracking when a 12" jackplate is involved on an 18' boat? I'd like answers to those questions before deciding who may or may not be right.



"I hate Tracker Matrine and I hope they go out of business soon..."



You started your post by blaming someone at Tracker for taking something personally, and then you go on to wish that hundreds of people should be out of work because of your perception of their product and service.



Get a grip. It's folks like you who give Tracker Marine a "pull up the drawbridge" mentality. They're not any more in the right for doing having that mentality, but I'd be tempted to do the same thing if faced with irrational people like you.



 
Always the diplomat! You da MAN Rich! Here's to hoping it didn't fall on deaf ears!
 
Rich,



I might add...although we are a small consulting firm...we have a "lead person" on each account or one time repair/project...that lead person is the customers first contact point and the BOSS is the second...both names and numbers are communicated to the customer. The BOSS doesn't like to get calls that the customer is having a problem.



Mid level managers tend to look at short term bottom line issues differently than front line customer service reps and differently than top management... So, with us, the middle managers are out of the customer service loop with regard to customer contact intiated by the customer. So believe me, I monitor my techs and contact customers if I think I see a problem developing. This saga sounds like a "skinny accounting" approach gone too far.



Ford has their Blue Oval (or something like that) for dealers. Maybe Tracker needs to look at that kind of approach. A baker told me, a long time ago, that he didn't make any money until he had sold almost all of his donuts. So he couldn't afford to lose any customers he needed that last few ones in the door to stay profitable. He recognized it wasn't "percentages" and "margins"; it was customer satisfaction that kept him in business.
 
Greg, the truth is, customer satisfaction is not the key to every business. Viewed from a customer perspective, we like to think it should be the key. A customer is one constituent among many, particularly with a large company.



Tracker, by the nature of it's very strong brand names, value pricing strategy, critical corporate/strategic relationships (Marine Group, BPS, etc.), sponsor/ad budget, and strong distribution, has many things going for it that a smaller manufactuer does not.



For example: Basscat can't survive without great customer service and great product. They have nothing else to fall back on. Sales will not automatically keep rolling in for that company unless they consistently deliver the service and product. Champion is another interesting exmaple. The company ceased to exist when the industry had a downturn, despite great product and service. In that regard, Tracker dramatically outperformed Champion. Champion owners would probably hate to hear it, but the fact is, a Tracker five year hull warranty on 1998 boat is a lot more valuable right now than a lifetime Champion warranty on a 1998 boat.



Any large organization must service:



1. Society (legal obligations)

2. Owners/sharedholders (financial obligations)

3. Employees (fair compensation/working conditions)

4. Customers (satisfying product/service)



For a small company, it is easier to put #4 ahead of #2 and #3, as a strategy for optimizing #2 and #3, often because #2 are willing to absorb the fluctuations in reward that come with such choices.



In a larger company with disconnected owners (institutional and private shareholders, a parent conglemerate, etc.), for a variety of reasons, that can be more difficult.



It's this difference that often sees customer service and product quality decline when a smaller company is bought and integrated into a larger one.



I very much agree with your Blue Oval comment. If Tracker is going to stand second in line behind the dealer when it comes to service, good dealers should be rewarded and acknowledged, and bad dealers must be fired. But, again, that costs money to implement, and choices must be made.

 
i have to add my $.02 in in.



everyone who is a season member here know what i went through.so we wont go back to it,ok.



they will stand by there decision to the end.i tried 3 times to get mine repaired the way it was.but it looks like it didnt work.so what to do?



well,my boat was past its warranty when it was taken back by me,repaired and picked up by me.i asked them to shrink wrap it which they did.which they didnt have to do,but they did.all you have to do is call and ask them to do it when the repair is done.simple thing to do.



the transportation is upon tracker marine.if they have a truck with space going back to the factory your boat will go on it,as in my case the next truck was in march.they could tell you if you want it fixed,then transportation is YOUR responsibility!but they dont.



they(tracker)csr(customer service reps)have limited power to grant extended warrantys and other things.they take down information,and relay it to there boss,who infact makes the final determination in the matter,in my case was mike nichoas,who doesnt work for them anymore.but the determining factor is your manner which you relay the information to them.i did not go through a dealer for my repair,i arranged all the details,no dealer help.



i went through jenny corley,belinda buettgenbach,and nathan long,and scott put his $.20 wort in to,thanks scott,meanwhile still the point being is that he still has a problem,his negative posting could be considered slander,which they dont particularly appreciate.



the way i see it,sell the boat,trade it,whatever.



tracker does sell a lot of boats,now im not defending there decision,or condoning what they do,or praising them,but with the amount of boat they build,meaning the the marine group also,which is probally a lot of boats,but the amount of repairs that come back that they have to do is probally astronomical.but here is the point,i know long winded.fiberglass repair is not something that is quick like tin boats.the fiberglass has to set up(cure)properly for strength,and to take something apart that is fiberglass is not fun at all.scott ever see the inside of a volvo condo sleeper?i just helped put a whole roof on it,not fun!!! but the point is fiberglass is not easy at all,and gelcoat is even worse.that has to match somewhat to the color of the rest of the boat.ever see someone try to blend paint on a car?not a simple process,buffing,mixing,spraying,and so on.



what my point is that it takes time to repair something fiberglass.and if the same person that started the repair doesnt finish the repair,it 90%of the time wont look right,or wont fit right,or whatever,if the guy repairing it doesnt give a rats backside about his job,well,get the point!warranty gives specific time to repair it,thats it.



sorry people,got toooo much time on my hands.sucks to be off on comp,and therapy!



someone come here and take me fishing,please!!!

 
Rich,



Your comments are one reason BassCat is high on my list of maybes... However, I have to tell you...even in a big structured organization...in particular Ford...My experiences over 30+ years have been good to excellent. And, that has been through some of the worst years...primarily because I ALWAYS chose my dealer carefully. I knew if I had a good dealer...Ford was flexible enough to go along with the good dealers who wanted to keep good customers happy. I did business through one dealer for almost 20 years, 11 cars/trucks. When the owners sold out I found another. I'm now with only my third Ford Dealer. Through all of that I have had a handful of "problems", all of which have been worked out in one manner of another. Never, have I had a situation that involved what I would call ridiculous behavior by Ford. I hope that I have never asked for anything ridiculous. I had an early 1980's Crown Vic replaced in the first year for $800 after about 6,000 miles. It was "possessed". I got a new car and a few "extras" thrown in...a "deal" brokered by the dealer. I got a mid '90s Taurus repainted after the warranty expired...the problems with the paint started way before the end of the warranty. Through all of my experiences no one (except maybe me) ever got frustrated or angry.



I am sure that there are thousands of "horror stories" out there about Fords. However, a lot of those will tend to have two sides and many will involve dealers that are dysfunctional. My current Ford Dealer (this is my first truck from them), a Chicago Suburban dealership, gave me the General Manger's direct phone number with my "closing package". I haven't needed it...but I was pleased that they gave it to buyers as a routine act with instructions to use it if it was ever needed. I thought that was interesting.



BTW, this dealer was the best by hundreds on price...go figure! My point is that if the "Big Guy" wants to make a commitment to Customer SErvice it can be done. But, it has to be seamlessly molded into the business model. IBM just has started to wake up and sell service not hardware and they are beginning to do well.



Tracker can/could build it into their business model by choice. Word of mouth/referrals are the cheapest marketing...they have no hard cost. With the entry at the "9" series level it will be important to have that level of customer service a $30,000 buyer expects/demands. You can't have it as an "add-on", it must be an institutional thing.
 
To clarify, my "diplomat" post to Rich was for his first. I had not seen the second to John, so John, it wasn't directed at you, more Tracker. Rich does have some valid points though, but I certainly do understand your point as well. My opinion is somewhere in the middle. We cannot judge the entire corporation by a few people, however, as I stated earlier, I fail to find the repeated, verbatim, posts about other boats companies. Now they may or may not have their proportionate share of defects, but if they do, they certainly handle them far better, becasue I have yet to find the repeated attacks against Triton, Stratos, Ranger, Javelin, etc. They're just not there, at least not in the overwhelming magnitude that can be found about Tracker/Nitros. As I tried in vain to explain to the local dealer that can't understand bassboat owner's frustration, if you bought a $30k SUV from me, and it was your "go to" vehicle, because many folks that buy a boat like that either guide or fish tourneys, or only weekends and so don't get much time to enjoy their toy to begin with, but if you bought that SUV, and it broke down within warranty and you brought it to me for repairs and it took me forever just to look at it, or say I had to send it back to Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, whatever, and they responded this way, how would you react? You are making hefty payments on an expensive SUV, that you haven't seen in months, are getting no response to it's status, you know it's sitting in the elements getting mistreated, and chances are good that the "warranty" work that is performed will last 6 months at best at which point the OEM is going to do everything in their power to weasle out of the remainder of the warranty. Now personally, I would get a little irrate, so yes, I feel the plight of those who are suffering this fate, because I was one of those people.
 
I'm not touchin' this one...y'all know how I feel..

TEE
 
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