To Tip or Not To Tip?

[Larry (Bo) Bolander]

Got a question for you guys. When you're paying a guide $250.00-300.00 a day, is it customary to tip? I understand a dinner where the business sets the prices and the waiter/waitress gets the tip for good service. A self-employed guide is getting paid and getting a tip? This just doesn't seem right. That would be like paying my mechanic $300.00 to fix my car and then tipping him for doing a good job. I would expect him to do a good job for the $300.00 I paid him. What's the norm, can anyone tell me?

 

[Marty Klein]

I have no clue what the norm is for such things. However, I wouldn't tip unless I caught the fish of a lifetime and the euphoria caused me to do so.

 

[Bill Hamilton]

You tip the guide about 50% only if you use HammerTime Guide Services. Toxic needs the money to guy a new shirt. I am tired of seeing that day-glo KeelShield shirt! LOL

 

[Jim in VA]

Having been out on guided trips before and several friends that have as well, seems to me that tipping is the norm. Believe it or not, after expenses that include the boat, gas, oil, equipment, boat captain licensing, insurance, etc. etc., guides don't make a whole lot of money. All the ones I've used are far from what you would call rich - or even well-to-do. Several had other jobs and did guiding because of their pure love of fishing and helping others out - not because it was a lucrative money maker. Because of this, tipping seems appropriate to show the guide your appreciation, especially if he was really sharing knowledge, rigging up tackle, showing you great spots or otherwise just making sure you had a really good time. Of course if the guide is surly or just doesn't seem like he's trying to get you what he's been paid for, then no need to tip. As for how much, I figure a $20 spot/person usually is pretty good. Especially if I'm bringing home a cooler of fish for the fryer, grill, oven, pan, etc.!

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Lets break this down....

Gas 3.00 a gallon... You want to catch fish so the Guide has to run your sorry butt all over the lake!!!!

Oil 18.00 a gallon... see above

Insurance for boat and to cover your sorry butt if you get hurt...250.00 a year

Payment for the boat and trailer and tow vehicle, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000.00 to 1500.00 a month.

Customers stepping on your seats and ripping them up.. spilling stuff in your boat, using your tackle and gear...

On a good week a guide MIGHT have two trips @ 250.00 to 300.00 a pop!! Is he making any money... HECK yes you should tip them... But only according to the degree of service you recieve!!!!!



KB

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Judgement...it's simple.

He does a good job and is friendly and has fun...then yes.

Otherwise...maybe not nor return.

 

[Carl Ohara]

Gas, Oil or insurance should be of no concern. I figure we already paid for that in the price. Tip on service, if they make you feel comfortable and enjoy yourself then tip but dont feel obligated. If they mke you feel like they are doing you a favor buy letting you pay them for takeing you out, dont tip.

 

[mike chip]

i have been out many a time with guides, and i tip based on the experience, knowledge gained. and how hard he worked to get me fish. yes i always tip, based on the cost of the ride.

mike c

 

[Kenneth Brown]

Ohara, They should be no concern to you... But you can bet they are a concern to the Guide who is trying to make a living... I didn't even begin to list the cost of running a business... People may not tip... just tells me how cheap they are!!!

Ever been offshore fishing for Tuna or Marlin... 1200.00 to 1600.00 for the base price... You better noteven think of walking off that boat without tipping the mate... After expenses a freshwater Guide might not break even if no tip is given!!!

It's just how some people were raised i guess!!!



Kb

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

This is interesting unless it get's into a brawl.. I have never used a guide but until all of this was brought up I would have automatically tipped. I think both sides have great points that I haven't thought of before. If the Guide works for someone else, ie; Uncle Billy's Guide Service and performs to your satisfaction or more, then I think a tip is in order. If the Guide works for himself, now I don't know what to do..

There are a lot of social nicety books that delve into this. One example states that if you receive service from an employee of a business you should tip but not if the the owner performed the service. Sounds like doodo to me but I do understand the reasoning. I get my haircut from the owner of the barbershop I go to so I shouldn't tip him according to this book but I should tip if I was in another barbers chair. I thought at first that if the guide depends on tips to make a living he should just raise his rates. But if he does that his rates will soon be a lot higher than the guides who work for Uncle Billy's Guide Service and he won't get any customer's who think they will have to pay his higher fee and then tip him too.

I don't know, I'm tipping unless he is just a plain old S.O.B. and didn't earn a tip.



Uncle Billy <---- Guide Rates to Anna's hot side to be released soon...

 

[Major Mark]

If the bartender serving your drinks works for the owner, tip him cash, if the bar owner serves your drinks, buy him a drink.....



uh oh, wrong type of service, huh?

 

[TrepMan]

This is a real touchy subject, but like Uncle Billy, i'm glad (so far) we can (and I know we discussed this before sometime too) do it civil like!



My take - I'm sort of like the theory on owner vs. employee, but also service and competitiveness.



So... One of Uncle Billy's employee's is booked to take me fishing for spots/largemouth and I tell him i'm realy interested in learning a few specific techniques on this lake, like Drop Shot, Senko and Flukes. We go fishing, he is a gentleman, nice, doesn't spend the time FISHING for himself, unless he's got the boat in the right position and has me all set... He TEACHES me the techniques i've asked for, we catch fish, I learn stuff, he's a great guy, and so on... It would depend on his competitive rates. If the going rate was say $250 for a 1/2 day, but Uncle Billy charges $300 for a 1/2 day, but that is because he is KNOWN for his quality service, I may or may not tip. The guy is a weasle he gets zip!



Specific example, with out names - I took a guided trip here in GA, told the well known guide 3 different times on the phone and twice in e-mails that I specificaly wanted to go after spots and LM NOT stripers. He confirmed. I show up at the dock early and his boat is ready and EVERY rod is rigged for Stripers! I politely remind him of my requests, he says "well I don't honestly remember that, but this is a great day for Stripers, are you sure you want to hunt bass? This is a tough time (march, upper 30's air temp, water in the low 50's...), we'd have much better luck with Stripers?" I politely explain the REASON I hired him, and at this time of year was EXACTLY that it was TOUGH bass fishing conditions and I wanted to learn from the best! He reluctantly rerigged a few rods for TX worm fishing, took me to a spot, showed me the techniques and we started catching a few bass. BUT... His cell phone goes off a few times and he comes back to me with "MAN the Stripers are SLAMMing U-rigs about 5 mins from here, you SURE you don't want to try??" I relent and we hunt and catch a LOT of Stripers in the next 2 hours, but after the first few it was like pulling a kid from a candy store to get him to get BACK to Bass fishing!!! He eventualy did, showed me some more techniques, and we docked, packed our stripers in ice/bags (as we did NOT bring a cooler as we were NOT expecting to go Striper fishing!!). SO, long story long... No tip. Would you have done the same? Oh and this is the owner of the guide service.



Trep

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Trep - In your example, I would NOT have given him a nickel. I would have thanked him for teaching LM techniques and told him that in the future when a "customer" says he want to fish for "XXXX" then it is his job to do JUST that.



Besides, if I want to go after Stripers I'll hire the best Striper Guide and if I want LM then I will hire the best LM Guide. You can't be the best at both! IMHO

 

[Jim in VA]

Trep/Bill - I'm with you guys on that one. Seems the guide from GA in Trep's scenario was more interested in his own good time than providing what the customer wanted and asked for numerous times. Heck, I'd even start questioning him on the full fee when he was so reluctant to do what he was being paid for. When you go to a bar and order a beer, should you have to pay the glass of wine that shows up instead? I would think not! Seems to me the guide should consider himself fortunate that Trep didn't question his fee.

 

[Bruce Freeman]

OK, you get what you pay for. Do your research first and if you get goood service, a tip is in order. Now this is based not on any guide service I have used (none to date) but service in general. IF it's a good day it's a good day, if the weather kills the day? If the person is a jerk? I have never hired a guide, but I have fished behind a lot of pro's between the opens and the elites. They control the boat and if you catch fish or not.



If you are a jerk (paying or not) you will be treated the same. Bottom line, you are paying for a service. If you liked the service and feel they went above and beyond. Show it, if not, thats OK also. Just don't expect to bump somebody next year when your week is filled.



BF

 

[davetnitro]

if a guy has a business, and does not charge enough to cover his expenses, i would say

that he is not a very good business man.....

 

[Jim in VA]

if a guy has a business, and does not charge enough to cover his expenses, i would say that he is not a very good business man.....

Or maybe he's responding to market conditions and has no choice? The going rate for a guided trip on the lower Potomac is anywhere from $200 to $300/day. Not much wiggle room. Less so if your competition is being financed in more creative ways. For example, say a guide needs $300/day at a minimum to break even and earn a small profit. But the guy over at the next dock charges only $250. Maybe the second guide has sponsorship from equipment manufacturers helping to defray costs; maybe he's a tournament fisherman that only guides occasionally and doesn't need the money; or maybe the second guide is independently wealthy and can afford to simply break even (versus making a profit). Whatever the reason, this doesn't necessarily make the first guide a bad businessman. Now the first guide, if he's smart, will either try to find ways to compete or provide something extra for his customers. Perhaps he can justify the extra cost? Or perhaps he provides a better experience. Maybe he even relies solely on tips for that extra bit of income? Not that farfetched a thought in a competitive business.

 

[TrepMan]

Jim - Not to argue, and like Uncle Billy said "This is interesting unless it get's into a brawl", but under the conditions you propose, from a truly P&L (Profit and Loss) perspective, my advice to the guide concerned about market conditions would be "you are not in the financial position to be a guide at this time" and get out of the business.



In my almost 20 years in the IT business I have been approached many times by folks suggesting "why don't you go on your own into consulting, open your own business, get more of the profit margin??" Its all about risk! I have not been shown the low risk business model in my business to put my wife/kids/house/retirement at play to make that move. I've known some who have that are making a boat load more $$ then me, and some that have lost their houses/cars/shirts in the process.



My suggestion, is if you are running that thin on profit margins to rely 50% or more on Tips to make a profit, get out of the business.



Trep

 

[Jim in VA]

Trepman - no argument here from a purely business point of view. But there are other reasons why folks get into guiding. Sometimes its the pure thrill of helping a first time fisherman/woman hook up a big bass (or other fish species). Or its just a great way to be on the water, which all of us on the board seem to love as well. Guiding is ultimately a service profession and from my limited view (i.e., "limited" in the sense that its only one person's view), it seems that guides do it for the love of people and fishing - whereas the money helps defray costs and hopefully allows them to make a bit of a living. Sure there are more lucrative careers, but would they be as happy? So maybe its worth it for a guide to gamble on the generosity of the people that are their customers.



That said, of course, does not justify having to tip (getting back to the original thread) for a bad experience, but I guess my bottom line is if you have a good time and the guide's efforts contributed to that good time, why not tip him a bit as a show of appreciation, regardless of whether he's the business owner or not? In fact, you could argue (respectfully) that the business owner needs it more as employees are guaranteed a salary - owner's are not! Its the rare business that pays its owners first. Most pay employees and expenses first, then whatever's left over goes to the owner - especially in the small business context.

 

[Christopher Laurencio]

I don't think a tip should be considered in regards to a Guide for Fishing, for the most part I am under the impression that they work for themselves, if the guide wants a tip, he/she should just raise the rate charged. If that makes them have a unfavorable price vs. other guides in the area, they should reconsider if this business is profitable in the first place. Why would I want to, hire a guide on a agreed upon price, then feel obligated to determine if the guide was,



Lucky

Unlucky

Skillful or not

dedicated

off day

Banner DAY!!!

good decsions or bad

just a bad day on the water



I don't think it's appropriate for the paying customer to have the repsonsibility to determine what went wrong, or how well we did vs the norm.



Does the guide refund on bad days??



Let's face it, well at least IMHO, a fishing guide is doing something they are passionate about, they are not out to make as much profit as possible, becuase if they were then they would pick a much more stable and reliable form of imcome. Cost of fuel, oil, overhead should not be contingent on getting a tip, it should be factored into the flat rate, otherwise the guide will not only turn a small profit, they will most likely take a loss.



A Contractor and I agree on a price to re-roof my house, the self empolyed contractor has a helper working him. The work is performed to my expectations and now complete, the contractor gives me a bill and I hand him a check for the full amount. No tip for performing this service, as I am under the impression he has included the costs of labor, materials and overhead into the price as well as a profit.



The helper, every day at quiting time, drags a magnet on the entire driveway to make sure there is no roofing nails on it, was that part of his job? Something you must determine before offering a tip, perhaps, the contractor was telling him to do it, or the contractor was telling him to stop wasting time in doing the driveway, that's a service tip IMHO, not to just add on to a predetermined fee becuase it's the "nice thing to do".



CJL