Time for another Boat, but which one?

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C C

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I have spent the last 5 months researching, shopping and am down to two choices, 901 with a 200 OPTI or EFI is the boat I want but due to the kind of water I spend most of my time on (rivers) a tin boat (TV18/150hp) might be the best solution because I am terrified of damaging the glass on rocks. My Targa is sold so buying another boat by May is a must.



I have watched all of the 901s for sale here and have been very tempted but am not one to travel over 100 miles to buy anything. I know that going used say 1 or 2 years old with a warranty on the engine is what I am interested in.



On the TV18 it would have to be new, I'm not comfortable with the issues on those with a 150 hangin of the back, so I would want a new one for the warranty just in case.



So here I am boat less, running amuck with cabin fever, toying with tackle boxes in anticipation of going to a fishing show this weekend to buy more gear, Spring and most of all buying another boat. I don't know if I should get a 901 or another tin boat, TV18. I sure would appreciate hearing suggestions to help with making a final decision.



Thanks! Cass
 
Cass, if you want a deal on a used boat, you may have to travel. I would say 100 miles is a very short trip to get a boat. Especially if it saves you several thousand. But get the glass, you can't go wrong.
 
Cass -



I fished from and rode in MOFish's TV-18/150 Merc..... Very nice ride!



One heck of a lot less expensive than the 901 combo, too.....



I'd recommend it any day - with a stainless prop.



me!
 
They are nice hulls, but you will sit in it one day and ask yourself, "Should I have bought the 901?". Reverse the situation and you will NOT ask yourself, "Should I have bought the TV-18?" You will get a better ride, faster top end, more storage, and it's purtier! Dem bassus luv sparkles! If it is a matter of money, then by all means, get what your budget allows. But it you can swing a used 901 or a new TV-18, for me, it's an easy choice. You just don't see pros, most tourney anglers, or hardly any guides running tin. There's a reason for that. NOTHING againt you tin guys....I don't have the energy today! Facts are facts, each boat has it's place, but in the grand scheme of BASS fishing, it's hard to hold a candle to glass. Multispecies......well, there's more to debate there.
 
Going over to the boat show (across the street from the office) to look at all them sparkly boats (this afternoon or tomorrow). BPS has a decent sized exhibit area, but not as big as I thought they would have (looked at the layout on-line). Be interesting to see exactly what they brought. Want to look at the Rangers, Stratos, and Pro-Craft boats in particular.



As someone who has a Targa and is used to that 'very dry ride', that works pretty good in choppy water, the 9 series will certainly be different. Can't believe that it will be as dry - no matter how good it handles/rides.



Tex
 
Okay, I'm on my lunch break so I have time to chime in on this one.



CC: Buy the boat that meets your needs, not your heart. With all due respect to Rob, if you are concerned about damaging a glass boat because of where you fish (which is EXACTLY why I bought the TV-18), then you're head is telling you to stick with tin. I ask myself the same question Rob asked, "Should I have bought the glass?" and the answer always comes back "No." It came back hard this last weekend when I was running WOT through 30 inches of water with chunk rock visible under the surface. I don't care what anybody says about tin vs. glass; in the same situation, the pucker factor would have been unbearable had I been in a nice, expensive sparklie boat. The repair bill would have been higher, too, had I run a glass boat up on those same shoals.



Pierre proposes a very good compromise for about $3,000 more than the TV-18. Thicker aluminum. No transom issues. The looks of a glass boat.



I'm working with a reputable guy on setting up my TV-18 with a stainless steel prop, as Scott suggests. I finally GPS's my boat with the 23-inch pitch 3-blade aluminum and it topped out at 51.7 mph. That's not what the speedo reads (it showed 57). The same guy calculated out what my theoretical speed would be on that prop to within 0.3 mph a WEEK before I ran with the GPS! If I switch over to a Tempest Plus 3-blade in a 21-inch pitch, he's projecting a top speed of 59.3 mph. Here's his formula.



"5800rpms/21p/gear ratio/==== 63.37at 100% efficiency, i'm guessing you'll be somewhere around 94% which means 59.3mph"



Most glass guys would concede that 59.3 is DARN fast for an non-Avalanche tin boat. The ride on it is exceptional, especially in rough and choppy water. If you're a guide, pro or tourney angler, do what Rob says and buy the used 901. If you're looking for a functional boat that will meet your fishing needs as a purely recreational fishing fanatic, I would give the 2003 TV-18's a big thumbs-up. I'd give a brand new Avalanche with a 150 or 175 TWO big thumbs up.
 
Hey Mo, thanks for the "due respect" but I hate to burst your bubble. If you hit with glass OR tin at 50+ MPH, I don't care if it's tin, it's TOAST! Likewise with the lower unit which doesn't matter what kind of rig it hangs from. And that is what insurance is for. You will be out of a boat the same amount of time so I would rather have the glass. Besides the best thing is to plain....NOT hit anything. Sounds to me like you tin guys just can't keep off the rocks so you justify your poor navigation by buying tin! LOL You can get a hole fixed in glass for about the same or barely more than a comparable hole repair in tin if you fix it correctly. Yeah, you COULD just rivet on a patch of tin and epoxy around it. Likewise with glass, you could patch it, bondo, and paint. Both are cheap, neither is correct or intended to last. If we went dollar for dollar and compared real repair to real repair, tin is virtually no cheaper to repair than glass. I have a $2500 repair receipt to show you that Tracker paid to prove it.

Chaulk another score up for team FIBERGLASS! LOL I'm regaining my energy to debate this again! LOL
 
LOL! (Oh Lord, here we go again.)



I'm not going to broadly debate tin vs. glass again.



Unfortunately, you didn't succeed in bursting my bubble. Apparently I didn't communicate my point clearly and for that I apologize. Yes, the lower unit would have been damaged or the outboard ripped off the transom at 50 mph - either type of boat.



I'm sure that you would want me to come up to Champlain and discover the vast array of benefits a fiberglass boat has over a tin boat in those conditions. I would love for you to come down to Taneycomo or S-Bar-F and discover the vast array of benfits my tin boat has over a glass boat in those conditions. Glass is best for YOU. Tin is best for ME. The real issue here is what's best for CC? Only she can answer that.



She said it herself. She primarily fishes rivers, not large, windy, boat-beaten lakes. She's concerned about bumping and scraping rocks. That's why I recommended tin. My opinion is that the aluminum boat will better meet her needs given those variables; not that tin is an all-around better boat (which it IS, but I said I wouldn't debate that issue again).
 
Yeah, but she'd be cooler in a glass boat! LOL Glass is better! na na na na na naaaa naaaa! I can't hear you.....glass is better. I won't stop and you can't make me! LOL Durn fever, I need a winter hobby!
 
Sorry, Rob. The last three weren't called for. I'll lay it at the feet of a crappy day at work, but that's no excuse.



I feel for you and all those up north, sittin' there with that boat under a tarp covered in snow. I know I go a bit crazy when there's snow on the driveway, the boat's in the garage and my flourescent garage lights won't come on because it's below 30 degrees. I can't even go out and sort tackle in those conditions.



Take a vacation to Missouri, and I'll treat you to some "multi-species" fishin' in a dirty old tin boat. Just be sure to bring yer goggles, 'cause that tin boat will pin yer eyelids back.
 
glass is better. i would think that if a person was buying a "new" boat that the rocks would terrify him or her either way. i mean, a scraped up boat is a scraped up boat whether it is an avalanch, a TV-18, or a 901. i admit, i would like to have (2) boats. one for small creeks and backwaters with a small outboard and one for big lakes to take the big waves and get around fast. Cass might check out and see what other types of boats are runnin on the same waters she fishes and speak with some of the owners to see what they think also. i mean, if most have a tin boat and most of the glass boats are dinged up, that might be a good clue. there is a lot to choose from and it gets down to what Cass likes. i like the 901 and that is what i would have if i could or the 898 or the 896.

jd
 
I agree with Pierre....go with the Avalanche and you'll have the BEST of both worlds.....Glass' speed and performance with tin's ease of repair should you scrape a rock...

Mac
 
Buy the Avalanche, it's a good compromize between glass and a TV-18. Plus even with a 115 hp that boat will scream.
 
At least you can hold a candle next to or even under my tin boat and it won't melt.....SSSSSSSSSPPPPPPPTTTTTT

(makeing childish 2 year old noises)LOLOLOL

BF
 
I just bought a 2002 Targa 17. Saw where your old boat was a Targa. How did you like it? Any particilar reason why you got rid of it?



Glenn
 
Bruce, if you regularly go holding candles under the hull of a boat.....I would say your a tin guy for sure! LOL
 
All good points here, thank you very much guys. I asked the guy that I use for service and he is a wood guy (Ranger) and of course he said get glass. There is an even mix of glass & tin on the local river I fish the most. I have not spent much time in NH on the lakes but do expect to do so this year. Maybe Marke has something to say about glass or tin on NH waters.



I agree with MO and should go with what I need vs. my heart. I have had a tin boat and have no complaints about the Targa but have decided that I NEED a glass boat so I can find out what everyone is talking about. I guess I should accept that regardless if it's glass or tin there are going to be scratches.



The main reason for sticking with a Nitro/Tracker is because as MO put it, I am a recreational fisherwoman and understand that I can't get more boat & accessories for my $$ anywhere else. I also know that I have an excellent dealership near by that I can rely on for warranty work, Thank you Bob Bourget.



I didn't even give the Avalanche a look because I want to be closer to the water and with a V-hull it's quite a bit further reach to get to the water. You know, to scoop up that hawg! I know that sounds like a silly reason but after having major reconstruction surgery of my knee's 6 ligaments, knee cap scrap a couple of permanent screws and no ACL. Getting up and down on the deck is a big issue with me. Getting out of the Targa V17 and into a bass boat style rig will help with my knee problem. I need the deck space something that is limited in the Targa and want more horses to get from point A to B a bit faster.



The 898 & 901 fit my wish list, even the 882 would work nicely, the extra space on front deck is one of the more important factors. I guess Saturday
 
the efi is fuel injected motor and the xr6 is a carburated motor. not sure about the gas mileage issue but the efi should start up on the first crank most of the time. sometimes with the carbed motors, you might have to crank a couple times to get it going. might do a search also as there have been some good threads regarding this.

jd
 
Cass,...the Avalanche IS the bass boat.....you're thinking of the Tundra,....The Av is as low to the water as a 898, 901 or a 882.......check one out!!! SWEEEET!!!

Mac
 
Great Mac, more choices! :)



Cass
 
Cass:



With the Avalanche, you'd be on the cutting edge. It would accomplish EVERYTHING you want in a boat. You HAVE to give that boat serious consideration, or you're missing a great opportunity.



James D. is right. The XR6 and the EFI's chief difference is in the system for delivering fuel to the combustion chambers. The XR6 is a "simpler" motor (no computers or circuit boards), but a gas hog. Keep in mind that 25% of the fuel it uses leaves the motor unburned. The operator controls how much fuel is utilized to start the outboard. Too little and the motor doesn't start. Too much and the motor doesn't start. Just the right amount and that motor cranks right over. On mine, a cold motor takes 10 full seconds of priming (key pushed in and held there) for it to get enough fuel to crank on the first try. Nine seconds won't start it. Twelve seconds and I have to wait for some fuel to evaporate because it's flooded. You also have to pump that silly ball hard.



On the EFI, a circuit board controls the priming. No ball to pump, no key to push in to prime. Very nice way to start your day on the water. A bit more money out of your pocket up front.
 
Cass,



Mac and Pierre are right. That Avalanche is one sweeeet boat! You would have the best of both worlds. It would give you some of the ease of mind of not banging your glass on the rocks and you also have the profile, ride, and fit of a bass rig. I can't wait until they make it a little longer as that will probably be my next boat!! It really reminds me a lot of the Nitro I have now in the way it looks. Just my .02!



Tim
 
Saw my first Avalanche yesterday (blue - are they all blue?). Didn't get to spend that much time looking at it, but it was very nice.



Tex
 
i saw a red one tex and thought maybe that was the only color they come in. they are neat boats as you can't tell they are metal. i still like the glass boats though.



jd
 
I believe they're available in white, red, pewter (my fav) and this year the blue is new.....I still like the pewter!!
 
Yes, pewter!! That truly is the BEST color on the Avalanche. I'm not real hip to the blue (yet). Red's okay. White would be my second choice.
 
They had a pewter one at the last show I did, IT LOOKED LIKE TIN!! Here's a tin boat tryin to look like a glass boat painted like a tin boat. Get outta here!! You cant tell me that you can abuse a tin boat (especially the Avalanche) and be any further ahead on repairs. Dem Bassus luvs Sparkles. Dem Bassus luvs Sparkles. Dem Bassus luvs Sparkles. Dem Bassus luvs Sparkles. Dem Bassus luvs Sparkles. Dem Bassus luvs Sparkles. Dem Bassus luvs Sparkles.



TOXIC
 
Did you consider the idea that they may have had to start using Pewter to convince potential customers that it really is a tin boat? It looks like glass, thumps like glass...some people take a bit more to convince them that it's not glass.



Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin. Dem Wallets luvs Tin.
 
Cass, sorry I'm just chiming in....



I won't confuse you any more on your boat decision, but can help you with NH lakes.

The TV-18 does fine on Winni and other large lakes that can muster up some swells. Both Marke and I have fished it with our boats and 90hp motors without a problem. The only thing I wish I had done was get the bigger motor for mine. With the 135 opti or 150 XR6 I'd be happy to take on any GLASS on Winni :)



I'm sure Bob will help you with your decision on a motor as well!
 
Mo and Tin Man,.....those Av's are dang close to a glass price if you put any kind of motor on it!!! Dey ain't cheap!
 
If you could see where I take my Avalanche you'd thik I was crazy. The guys are right though, it is a could compromize between the full size glass boat and a deep V aluminum boat. The hull is basically the same as a 901, a foot shorter but the same transom height and width. Mine with the 150 xr6 runs consistantly with full load at 60 mph. Since I'm not a speed demon I'm usually cruising at between 46 and 50 mph. At that speed I get between 4 and 5 miles to the gallon. On a 44 gallon tank that makes for some long runs if I so chose. All the tournaments I fished last year only one did I burn more than 20 gallons. At full throttle the xr6 gets 2.8 to 3.5 miles to the gallon. Regardless of what any of us say go with what your heart tells you. You'll be much happier.
 
Mac, what boat is EVER cheap??



"A boat is a hole in the water into which one pours money!"



 
Cass,



From my experience in NH waters I wouldn't recommend anything longer than 18'. The 901 is gorgeous and I LOVE Curtis'. However, the ONLY reason he bought the 901 is because he fishes Winni exclusively. He has even mentioned purchasing a used PT-175 or Pro Crappie just so he can fish some of the water that he used to in his old boat. So, unless you plan on towing up the "Lakes Region" all the time I would stay away from a glass boat and ANY boat larger than 18'.



The main reason being that NH boat access is HORRIBLE!!!! Most ramps are narrow, shallow, dirt or sand and they have poor turn a rounds and tight parking. Power loading is near impossible at many ramps, so be ready to crank the winch. So, for rivers and 90% of the lakes, the 901 is waaaaaaaayyyy to much boat. The TV-18 is PERFECT for NH waters. Even on Winni you wouldn't need more than a 115 or 125 on that boat. Although the 135OPTI would be sweeeeet :eek:)



If you don't like the TV-18 then look at either the Avalanche or 882. I hope Curtis chimes in here. He'll tell you himself that if he didn't live in Wolfboro and fish Winni 5 days a week, he would have NEVER bought the 901.



Marke



 
Marke -



I'm curious..... Why a 135 Opti and not the 150 Opti?



me!
 
In my opinion....the 150 if simply too much for that boat. I think the 115 or 125 is plenty of power for that boat. But I also LOVE the OPTI's so the 135 would be perfect. Merc is introducing a 75,90 and 115 OPTI's later this year. When available, the 115 OPTI would rock on that boat.



If you want to do 60+ mph, then get an Avalanche or glass boat.

Again, just my opinion.



Marke
 
i guess the opti's coming out are to meet the new epa standards. i couldn't see them putting them out for gas mileage. my 115 does real well on gas. things is even going to get more expensive in the future. (2) boats are a great idea, 1 for creeks, rivers, and backwaters and 1 for big lakes and power runs.

jd
 
How do the 4-strokes fit in..... Price and will the transom hold the extra weight?
 
In that case, my 2000 929 just may be for sale reeeeeal soon. Stay Tuned Ladies and Gentlemen!!



TOXIC

The dealer promised me that the smell would come out!!
 
Gee, Cass.... Did you ever guess - even in your wildest imagination - that you would get SO much "help"* in your decission?







*Meaning: Being TOLD what YOU should buy! :^)
 
Scott:



I would have to agree with Marke on the choice of a 135 Opti for the TV-18. Although I believe the transom/150 issue has been resolved on the newer models of the TV-18, there is still a nagging question in the back of my mind about how well it has been resolved.



A 135 removes all doubt about the transoms ability to carry the weight of the motor. Plus, with 41 gallons of gas to tote around, that Opti will run a looonnngggg time before you need to re-fill the tank.



Hindsight is always 20/20. I shoulda waited until 2003 to get a TV-18, then strapped a 135 Opti on the back, taken the exchange value of the standard trolling motor and used it to put on a MinnKota Maxxum 74 24-volt TM, taken the exchange value of the standard Humminbird LCD unit and applied it to a Garmin 168 Sounder on the dash, then installed the Garmin 240 or a Lowrance up on the bow just like I did on my boat. Now THAT would be a SWEET machine!
 
Thanks, Curtis. You DID burst my bubble. How did you get the comparative weights of the two engines? What's the difference in weight between a 135 Opti and the 150 Opti?
 
I appreciate all of the issues that are being discussed here, it's all very educational and of course I will be able to make a better informed decission on buying another boat. I just hope I will remember all of this when I am at the boat show tomorrow and see those sparkles on those pretty boats.



Cass



 
Curtis and MO -



It is all on the Mercury Marine website.



That's why I had asked Marke the question..... The 135, 150, 175 and 200 are all built on the same block and, practically speaking, have virtually identical weights.....



me!
 
Cass, you need to buy 4 or 5 boats so that we all can be happy. Good luck with you decision and have fun whichever it turns out to be.

jd
 
True Scott that the weight is same. However, weight is only one factor. I have to believe that the extra torque applied by the larger hp is another. Sitting in the water they all apply the same force. Put the hammer down on the hole shot and it's all hole new ball game.



Marke
 
The outdoor & fishing show was great. After wandering around the Nitro/Tracker boats for a couple of minutes I was greeted by one of the Nitro Pro staffers and spent some time chatting with all of the Nitro Pro staffers about fishing in the NE and got some really good info on the Avalanche. Penny Berryman said that she could not believe that the Avalanche was a tin boat because it handled just like a glass boat. I did crawl around on the Avalanche and was very impressed by the boat and the Pro staffers knowledge about all of the boats.



Looking at the 901 & the Avalanche I was impressed that the beam of both boats are 96" for me that would make up for the Avalanche being a foot shorter then the 901. Also the Avalanche with a 175 Opti will run 66mph, which is only 4mph less then the 200 Opti on the 901. So Avalanche guys, you have my vote on the boat. The only thing I am still a bit confused on is the paint. I understand that you can touch up the paint but feel like I would need to keep a bottle of touch up paint on hand for each landing. I also love the ice chest on the Avalanche. I always bring a small cooler and like the idea of having one built in to the boat, it would help with space and is one less thing for me to trip over.



I will have to agree that we need more then one boat to keep everyone happy, everyone in MY house that is. Once we buy into a boat slip on the lake we have our summer house on we will get a Pontoon boat for that lake and then I get the Avalanche for fishing everywhere else.



Thanks for everyone
 
So, Cass, are you actually GETTING and Avalanche?

Do your nails the same color as the boat - carry one bottle of "touch-up paint"!
 
Don't let a bottle of touch up paint be the deciding factor!

Remember,...what ever would scratch that paint,..woul;d also scratch the clear coat and/or gel on a glass boat! Atleast with the Av,...you can touch it up easily, immediately, and by yourself!.....glass needs to be done by an expert, and your "downtime" is sometimes lengthy!!

(I think an Av with a 175Opti would be unbelievable!!...the holeshot and acceleration would smoke a 901!! IMO!!)

Anyway,...they both have their advantages and disadvantages, but for ease of repair and overall lower maintenance,..I'd go with the Avalanche!!

Mac
 
Ok Mac,



I'll get you my address so you can ship me the useless glass Ranger and I'll replace it with an Avalanche....grumble, grumble....turncoat.......grumble, grumble....Benedict Arnold.........grumble, grumble.....benefits of tin, yada, yada....grumble, grumble....



TOXIC
 
Let me know when you want a GREAT boat Tox,...I can save you a bunch of mooolah!!!...LOL!!!
 
I know this comment is waaaay late...

And, honestly, I didn't read all 60-odd replies...so if any of my "tin bretheren" have already pointed this out - my apologies...

But for Rob...

Did you happen to catch "One more Cast" with Shaw Grigsby yesterday???

They were bassfishing from TIN...

One of the new Triton Tin jobs...nice looking boat!

So, just to reply to your comment from waaay at the beginning of this thread...about not seeing any pros fishing from Tin...



TIN RULES!

az



Incidentally, they were fishing in NH!!!
 
I've seen MANY Jimmy Houston shows where he is fishing from a Tracker.

Bill Dance does lots of shows from tin as well.
 
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