The Health of the Fishing Industry

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Is it just me or is the industry going into a slump of sorts? Let me give some examples.



Tournaments....The conflict between BASS/ESPN/FLW and other promoters is in full swing and most predict bad consequences. Is it me, or has there been a rash of bad press from cheating, lake etiquite, DQ's, new regs. ie. combined boater non-boater weights, ramp bickering, and so on?



Shows.....Seems I am hearing a lot of negative on the Bass/Boat shows, low attendance, fewer vendors, overall crappy events.



Sponsorships....I know this doesn't apply to many but let me throw it out without going into great detail that my sponsors are requiring more, giving less and really demanding a level of participation and effort that I have not seen in the last 5 years.



Overall, I am just not getting a warm fuzzy about the health of the industry as a whole. What do you think?



TOXIC

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Toxic - You put it into perspective with your last comment. I never took (my) fishing to be an industry. It is a sport which I like to partake in and spend my money accordingly. I am not a professional and never intend to be one. I am the typical(?) weekend fisherman who enjoys getting out on the lakes and rivers and having a good time, either alone or with friends. I do realize that it is a billion dollar industry and I contribute lots of dollars to buying equipment, but it is still a fun and enjoyable time for me.



If you can't enjoy it then you shouldn't be involved.

 

[Bob G.]

I agree with Bill. I strictly fish for fun. I fish in a local bass club as a non-boater, but my goal is not to be the angler of the year, but to fish with other people and learn more about bass fishing. I could really care less what BASS, ESPN and FLW do.



Bob G.

 

[Dan J.]

I've been in this business, in some form or another, for a long time and still hold true to the outlook Bob has. I do it for fun and I believe it is a wholesome sport/hobby in comparison to many other "professional" sports. Integrity seems to be a commodity in short supply these days. (That goes all the way around.) There seem to be more and more people with their hands out and fewer and fewer willing to lend a hand up. I've seen more former tennis, golf, etc., "pro's" that are now "all about the fishing industry". It's not my place to judge, but I'll give more time and effort to the fella with a $10 budget and four kids tugging on his arm, just looking for a place to take them fishing. After all, isn't that how this leisure "industry" (and most of our love of this sport!) all started?



Goff smacked a main concern on the head, i.e."One biscuit covered in 5lbs. of butter!"



FWIW - On a side note, we experienced one of our best boat shows in 6 or 7 years. Some things may be demographically considered.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

I'm glad you brought that up....most of the boat vendors had a great show which means people are buying boats and gettin out on the water. I really don't want to think it is an "overcrowding" issue both in terms of lake space but for manufacturers as a whole. BPS does great but is that reflective of the rest of the industry? This applies to the fun fishing guys also, ramp fees going sky high (Bill's subdivision even put an electric gate on their ramp to keep unwanteds out). I knew when I made this a business I would lose some of the fun and have been lucky to keep my "passion" for the sport but some things just aren't fitting. Manufacturer competition is fierce, not that it hasn't always been, but it is getting ruthless at the same time. Let me also add that the guide business here was off a lot last year and the competition has been brutal. One of the guides on Lake Anna at Bassarama found one of his business cards in all of the urnals. I know a couple of guides that Teddy doesn't even like being in the building with.



TOXIC

 

[Bill Hamilton]

No slam on the guides Tox. I fish for fun but many want that professional to put them on fish because they generally don't have the time (or patience), or expertise to find them theirselves. Even I tried the guide but he couldn't even put me on fish (LOL) on my own lake.



I have a lot of respect for the guides that I know as it is their profession and most are stewards of fishing and the waters that they fish in.



Maybe we have too much disposable income for the boaters and wanna-be fisherpeople (women can be nutzoids too) and don't have the respect for the environment (not that I am a tree-hugger haha)



Boy, you can sure get us going!

 

[Bob G.]

Dave,



It does sound like a slam on Tox. I've never met Tox yet, but I think he has always told it like it is. I've never heard of Teezo's and I don't remember his Teezo's post, but if he was pushing it, he was using it! I'm betting that he didn't give the real deal Senkos enough play time then. Regardless of what anyone here says about any whazoo bait, I will always have a rod/reel dedicated to a Senko. If you haven't tried them, do yourself a favor and get some. Oh yea....I'm not a pro or a guide or anything!!! LOL!!



The future of fishing is what you make of it!!



Bob G.

 

[Steve Rizza]

WOW Dave,



I didn't realize that was how "WE" felt.



Thanks for letting "US" know.





Steve

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

No offense taken. That was before I ever fished a Senko. After I fished a Senko I never went back and as a matter of fact dropped them as a sponsor and worked my rear off to get Yamamoto as a sponsor. That's the way I work. I will not take a sponsorship just for the product or to be paid. Why would I want products in my boat that don't work? If I don't use it I won't promote it. I am not a talking head. How many times have you also heard me say that Charlie Case (Case plastics) makes the best senko knockoff that I have ever seen or about the Jacks worm? That's because they work and I am not sponsored by them. And I was not sponsored by GYCB when I started pushing them. Ask KB, CIII, Bill Barham and a host of others if I am dedicated to the senko and if I ever pulled a knockoff out of my tackle. I constantly try new things. I have to. I am paid to put people on fish so I use a lot of baits. When I go out to fish on my own, I try new baits to stay on the cutting edge of what is out there. That's just being smart. You get the advantage of that time on the water without actually trying out all of the baits that I do. If you think I am just pushing sponsor tackle you are right because I would not have taken them as a sponsor if I did not use their product. Nailing me on a past sponsor isn't really fair. Just be careful when you question someone's integrity because something new came along and it just happens to be a better mousetrap. At least I told the truth and worked to get them as a sponsor. Should I have kept the senko my little secret? Not hardly. I am not the future of the industry, I am an end user just like you. If I knew where it was going, I wouldn't have made the post. I get the misfortune to see the inside workings and some of it is not pretty.



TOXIC

 

[Bill Hamilton]

Ooooops! Everyone is entitled to his / her opinion. I, for one, like to know what the latest and greatest "bait" is. Toxic turned me on to Senko's and I fish them a bunch but was also turned on to using some of the Case Plastics in a different fishing situation.



That's what is nice about fishing. You can try anything and everything out there. Otherwise, we would still be digging worms and catching minnows to use for bait.



I have met Toxic, and he is one I consider a friend and an avid fisherman. He has as much fun fishing as he does promoting his business.



For what it's worth.



Bill

 

[TrepMan]

Well guys, I don't know if i'm a "typical" weekend angler or not?? how many drive a minivan towing their boat!!! LOL



I don't get any channels but the BASIC BASIC on cable (like $20/month) just so I get the major networks and the kids get PBS and Saturday cartoons in clear picture. So I don't watch any of the fishing Tournaments. My boat is FULL of gear, I probably burned $1000/year at BPS my first 3-4 years with the boat, and that does NOT include items for the boat!!! LOL But now that my tackle boxes/storage is full, I only fish for fun by myself, with the kids and friends, I don't buy the latest/greatest baits. I do try something knew every once in a while (Toxic, through Bill Barham got me on Senko's and knockoffs).



I am a die hard fisherman, when i have the time from work and family, but with the cost of boats skyrocketing upwards, I will most likely NOT buy a new boat anytime soon. I might buy a 2-4 yearold one in a few years (let someone else take the HUGE depreciation hit), or might just up my HP on my current boat.



So, I like to see all the new stuff and the expansion of BPS for instance (more stores for me to stop and shop at on the way to OK and MD!!), but other then that there is not a lot for me to get more involved in.



So, i'll leave it up to you satalite and expanded cable folks to tell me how the latest Tours are doing!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Let's not turn this into a question of Dave against me. He found one post about a product that I used to use. How many posts about the senko do you think I have made 100....200? It is a weak argument but he has a point on who do you believe. You can believe that when the Teezo was introduced as a senko imitation, I decided to try the original. And as an aside, my partner was the one who put me on the prostaff of HawgCaller, I did not go out and recruit them. They still make one of the best "creature" baits out there called the LogCrawler but you won't find any of them in my rig because the GYCB "Creature" is just as good.



Bottom line, there are no magic baits that are "one of a kind" many here like the BPS stick o's. Whatever works for you.



TOXIC

 

[Tim Hanford]

I manage a tackle shop here in South Central PA. Before working here, I never knew the fishing industry was so ruthless and cut throat. It amazes me how SOME folks in the industry lose any sense of ethics when it comes to fishing industry business. Just amazes me.



I've managed this tackle shop for about a year now and I went through a cycle. First I was just loving my job and what I did and enjoyed all of the inside knowledge I gained. Then I lost some of my enthusiasm for fishing and didn't go fishing as much. Now I've come back around to loving my job, accepting the industry for what it is and I can't wait to get on the water.



There's a ton of back stabbing that goes on but I have met some real decent people too who choose not to get into the games.

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Agree with Tox on the trying new baits and not being sponsored by the company.



Jacks worms, the tube/worm bait from last years show, to name a few.



Believe me, if the bait is not believed in, then the bait is not used. He shows me his new stuff, weather it is a sponsor product or not. What makes me a believer is that I try some (yes, I go and buy a bag or two) and then I make my decision. I also like to try new stuff, but I always have my go to bait and color nearby to make sure my new one is working.



I am a Senko convert and also have Stick O's in the boat for those special situations!



Carlos <-- who has not any lure sponsors!

 

[Corey Carrico2]

I only got in about 5 fishing trips last year due to a new baby...my wife says that maybe I alone was the cause of the industry slump comparing fishing expenses from the year prior!! Man I need the lakes to turn back to liquid soon...

 

[Brian Bell2]

Guys,,

Good thread,, its about time we had a knock down, drag through the mud pissing contest.. Seriously cut Tox some slack I dont know him, but from his many posts he always seems willing to help out and answer our questions.

On another note, How do you think Gary Yamamoto feels, I think the Senko is the original soft stick bait if i am not mistaken and in my opinion the best out there, nothing compares to his and his sons baits, and the entire fishing industry realized this a couple of years ago, so now everyone is making them, I have tried a few Tiki's , Zeros, Sticko's, ect,,, and they dont compaire, the Senko out fishes them everytime..

Just my humble opinion..

 

[Bruce Freeman]

I am going to try and bring this back to the original question. First I what to take the time to say I don't have cable or directtv so I have know tv type info. What I know is what I see in person, read in mags or the web?? 2nd I have to make my self go fish. I started tounament fishing as a way to fight depression and lonelyness after my break up. Now the opinnion. It's all about the money. Money is tight everywhere, there are more of everything and more everybodies. More everybodies equeals more bad apples be they boaters, fishingpeople, pleasure craft, salespeople, ect. Everybody wants a bigger slice of the pie, some to make ends meet some to make millions. Disney/ESPN buying B.A.S.S brought everthing to a new level. Some good some bad. Last year fishing the opens and the open Championship I had the pleasure of meeting some real nice people From Greg G from CA to Woo Daves from VA. Of the est 1210 fisherpeople I was in the company of during those 4 events I only saw 4 that I would never share a boat with and only 1 I would not drag out of the water. The fact that the 2 major brands FLW and B.A.S.S want to control the TV vewiers view (sponsor boats only for the finals) Is to get to the masses. Other than the Classic how me people go to the way ins for the events? How many millions watch the tv version.

Just my opinnion take it for what it's worth.



BF



P.S As for the few members I have met here they are welcome in my home anytime, ever need a favor just ask, and I would extend this to the members I have not met yet.

 

[scott lewis]

I think 99% of us will fish whether the sponsors are sponsoring or not. I am not sure about BASS and espn yet.

not comfortable with it. They bite on bass for financial reasons. They could dump them just as quickly and leave a major voice in our sport in a world of hurt or worse gone.

 

[Trevor Nicholson]

Health of the fishing industry is alive and well, just look at the MAJOR bait being pushed out there.....Lucky Crap, oops I meant Craft.



If the powers to be think the major players in this industry (us weekend fishermen, working 40 to 60 hrs/wk) can afford a boat load of them baits, they have gone overboard and I hope they sink to the bottom. I can't wait til them idiots figure out the "real" fisherpeople out there can't afford $20 lures/$400 reels/$600 rods/$30,000 boats....on and on and on. I own a tracker, some Curados/ St Croix rods/ Bandit CB's/ various SB's and a bunch of Zoom and Berkley plastics.



I am the industry standard.



I could care less about BASS/FLW and even less about ESPN. The day the major bass organizations were taken over by "Corporate America" and out of the hands of " good old boys" was a sad, sad day my friends and there is probably no going back. I think that is why ABA and up and coming organizations like USA Bassin are on the fast track. The average weekend fisherman is getting wise to the ways of BASS and the Federation and such and breaking ranks from them for good. I know I'll never go back.



The BASS stickers are coming off my boat and truck and the little marvin peeing on a Lucky Crap, oops I meant Craft is going on in it's place. Hope you all join me.



Just a little rant'n and rave'n from the average weekend fisherman. Tight lines all!

 

[Mike Newman]

Let's take this to a bigger philosophical level. Unfortunately, I see the same trend as every other sport in the past 10 years. Increased hype, means more money, means basic greed replaces fundamental learning/enjoyment/competition of the the sport as the motivational driver. Once that happens it is the beginning of the end. The best you can hope for is to wait until the sport implodes and everyone that jumped onboard for all the wrong reasons bails to the latest fad and those of us that understand what the original purpose was gladly re-establish the basic fun that started it all. Look at most professional team sports like baseball, basketball, football, hockey for recent examples. Watch the squabbles basically over money(i.e. Boat wraps/using sponsor boats only) get more frequent and stupid. The final stage signifying how bad it has gotten is when somebody creates a fantasy league because nobody actually cares or can stomach the actual sport anymore so we reduce it to a bunch of indivdual stats and bet (more money) on that. Here is the million dollar question... When will we hear about the first Bass Pro that is using steriods to make them more competitive during the long fishing day/tournament. Pretty heavy stuff, but sometimes you have to throw it out for discussion.



For myself I am finding that I fish alot fewer tournaments, buy alot less tackle, spend less time watching the pros. Instead I have re-focused on learning basic techniques and establishing basic patterns, teaching my daughters the same and I am catching more and bigger fish with a bigger smile on my face.

 

[Greg Meyer]

Ah well... from my cheap seats in the Walleye World... That too is SNAFU...



THis boat company and that tournament series... the money isn't here... it's there... what motor can't you get on what boat... It's a mess...

 

[Barry Loos]

Guys, I think we will have a slump in the industry because the cost of bassin is getting real expensive. If a guy wants a Bagley lure, he'll pay $9.95 at BPS. I'm looking at the latest Bass and Walleye Magazine (pg. 33) testing a 250 Verado that costs $17,931.00 (new technology has to be funded). Or if you want a 929 CDX Nitro with a 225 Opti BPS has it on sale for $36,995. The cost of living increases as does manufacturing, etc. but we do a lot of damage to ourselves. We are part of the population that has to go faster and look better than the guy we fish against. The marketing folks prey on the testosterone running through the male basser and make us pay to play.



I do not want to blame is the tournament pros and guides for the high price of fishing. As an industry, our professionals don't come close to the income found in other sports. To compete they need all the sponsor dollars they can get. The cost to be a pro is getting very expensive. And we need the pros more than we need to go fast. Without the pro's input, we would all be lesser fishermen. These guys pass along how to catch fish. They are instrumental in new equipment design. And our sport is one that a guy can be just like the pros. The amateur can own the same boat and truck as Kevin Van Dam. But I shake my head and worry about our economy when I see young men up to their eyeballs in debt for purchasing a truck and boat to go fishing.



Sorry this is just an old man talking out of line.



Da Bear

 

[Texas Transplant]

The boat show here in Charlotte, is this weekend. I will go to it for maybe an hour, but fishing takes a HUGE back seat at this show. Mostly deck boats, jet ski's, pleasure boats and the like.



I believe that it used to be (not based upon factual experience), that sponsors were ready to hand out some amount of money/product/etc to their pitch people, for some unknown return. I believe that they have now honed their marketing and analysis of sales whereby they want more for their money. Lot's and lot's of folks want sponsorships. Lot's of people wanting money, limited supply of sponsors. Supply and demand. You want this money, I want this exposure.



I like many others look at it from a 'sports' perspective, and not a business venture. Therefore, I am not necissairly in the shoes of others, that do it full time or part time.



Tex

 

[JR F]

Boats are selling faster than ever...It seems to be more of a diverse crowd purchasing them....

For the first time more women are having a say so In the purchase...

Really selling alot of the fishing ski's..HAve to convert the cooler to a live well.for the men...BUT the ladies are happy....JR

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Easy....TOO MANY PEOPLE PERIOD!