Repairing an Avalanche?

[Staci Matheis]

OK..... A question for those of you "in the know"......



How easy will it be to repair the running surface of the Avalanche's hull?



This is such a critical area in a performance boat..... I haven't seen one yet, but I assume that the running surface has the same features as a glass boat. I always figured that glass would be much easier to work with than aluminum in the case of major damage - just grind it out, replace and sand...... If it ain't quite right, add some more resin and sand some more.....



I also figured that, for minor impacts, glass would have some resiliency and bounce back, while aluminum wouldn't...... Possibly resulting in a slow but steady deterioration in performance in a boat with an aluminum hull......



For example: My canoe is made of "oltonar/royalex". (Wanna know what that is? Ask Old Town!) After 10 or 12 years of heavy usage on shallow Ozark streams and many, many encounters with rocks and trees - except for lots of minor gouges, it's still in very good condition. I likely would have destroyed an aluminum canoe by now.



Ladies and Gentlemen - Your thoughts?



me?

 

[Rich Stern]

Scott, I can't answer the repair issue, but I can say that the .125" aluminum they used in the Avalanche is signficantly less flexible than the .100" that is typical of aluminum boats. When you bang on the hull sides, it feels solid, like glass does.



I know that Audi is using aluminum for body panels and hoods in some of their cars, so I assume the methods to unbend/reshape aluminum in a body shop enviroment exists.

 

[JEFF WHITE]

the way i look at it,to repair it would take a little bit of old metal working skill,shrinking hammers,dolly's and a torch.if you do get a rip in it,that thickness can be welded with a tig welder with ease if you can find a good welder.



when the metal gets stretched,such as a dent/ding,to work it out especially aluminum would take time and probally be expensive.below the water line would be a hard place to fix,especially on the planning surfaces.above the water line,with a little finess you probally wouldnt be able to tell.



i seen the tundra at the ft washington show,i kind of wasnt impressed with it.the welds i seen near the rear of the boat where the areator pickups and plug goes wasnt too good,they didnt remove the welding spatter from it,and it looked like it was a slight fill in weld,like the gap was too big.to look down the side,the body line went in and out in a few spots,the side wasnt straight,well either side wasnt.i know where the stringers were welded in ,you could see that,but where i work,you could hide that with a little sanding and sanding/primer over it.



im not nitpicking,but to pay all that money for a boat,a little more prep work before paint wouldnt hurt in the overall finish of it.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Scott,...first off,....'glass hulls (particularly the running surface you're talking about)DO NOT GIVE!!! They scratch, crack, get gouged, and are MUCH harder to repair than aluminum!! It's not nearly as simple as you might think. It's very labor intensive and as i mentioned before in another post about the differences in repairing alum vs. 'glass, there's a lot of "dry time" inbetween each step. Aluminum on the other hand, can be welded, ground smooth, and painted all in the same day.....literally fixed withing hours if we're talking about scratches/gouges or small dents. NOTHING in fiberglass repair can be done in a day!! The avalanche and tundra's are going to change the way boats are built....i'm absolutely convinced of this. If they can produce them fast enough and make them cosmetically appealing as 'glass (they're damn close!!!) you'll see 'glass take a back seat fast!!!! Just for the ease of repairing alone!! Not to mention the insurance and operation costs being lower for aluminum anyway. Just my opinion anyway....I can't wait to drive one myself,...i want to see what it'll do in BIG water...if it's as good as 'glass,...I'll have an Avalanche next year!!

Mac

 

[JAMES MOORE]

MAC is right on. The ease of repairing aluminum over fiberglass was a big seller for me. My current ranger looks like somebody used a cutting knive on the bottom. Estimated cost to repair back to original was in the thousands. Owned a small aluminum boat which got a tear in it one day when a large rock rooled off the hill and hit the side of it. Cost to repair, less than a hundred dollars. (A friend that aluminum welds) The biggest cost will be to restore the original paint finish and make it match. Even there a good car paint shop can perform this repair with alot less cost than to refinish and rejell coat

a fiberglass boat. The finish options for the avalanche for those do it yourself individuals will be as far as the immagination will take you. Good Fishin Jim Moore

 

[Staci Matheis]

OK...... More on the question........



On a car, if a panel is severely damaged, you unbolt it or cut it out and replace it...... Will you be able to do that with the running surface of a high performance boat? How difficult will it be to keep that critical balance side-to-side? And, again on a car, you can usually get to the back side of a ding to pound or rub it out - how can you get to the back side of the pad on an Avalanche?



I'm not concerned about the sides - just the running surface.



me?



(And, No! I never was any good at body work on cars!)

 

[JAMES MOORE]

I'm no good at body work either. Yet just from experience, ie smashed a few vehicles, it would be possible to cut and weld new pieces into the bottom pad. It would take stripping the finish back away from the area to be cut, make your cut and weld in your new piece. Sand/grind the area smooth, reprime and refinish. From what I saw of the Avalanche in November it looked like access to the bottom by removing inside panels is possible. Ken Neely can probably answer that question better. Correct me Ken if I've said anything off base.

 

[JEFF WHITE]

from what i see of the cutting and rewelding of a new piece in i think the problem would be is the integrated stringer system getting in the way a little.also,the welding process would slightly weakend the metal around the patch,alsothe patch would have to be straight with the bottom also,or turbulance problems would occure,or trim problems would occure.



you would have to make sure you are using the same grade/thickness of aluminum,example.5053h,4043,and so on.if you use 2 diffrent types of aluminum,such as 4043 against 5053,the weld wouldnt be good.ive welded 4043 with 5056 wire,and it didnt weld good,porosity in the weld.



we will have to see what happens in the first few yrs of production and bobo's from us crazy fisherpeople(politically correctness) out there using them.my magna series has a few dents in it,those stupid rocks by shore at night,no watch on deck landings play havoc on them.



i seen a g3 boat at a show today,it was a 17 ft welded boat,the keel was riveted on,along with the strakes on the side of the boat also.it didnt look bad,all the transom along the edge was welded all the way from 1 side to the other.it looked like a robot welded it.perfect weld.



oh well,back to the cleaning and reorganizing of the tackle,and selling what i dont use on ebay,it gives me the money to buy the things i use in bulk now.



also,beware of the power worms on ebay,they are factory 2nds.they dont have the berkley label,they have the fishermans factory outet on them.i bought a pack of squirmers off ebay,found at least 10 broken,5 diffrent color,the fleck not the best throughout the worm.



oh well.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Scott,...what makes you think a major fiberglass repair on a glass hull's running surface is going to be any more consistent (or lack thereof) than on an aluminum hull?? The hull weights of any fiberglass hull can vary as much as 300 pounds or more just out of the mold!!! Differences and inconsistencies with "hand laid hulls" are HUGE!!! That stretched form aluminum is going to be MUCH more consistent to it's advertised weight than a 'glass boat!! Tolerances and structural integrity will be much closer to "specs" with aluminum, because of the minimized human involvement. There's no way a person or team of guys/gals can make each hand laid hull or "chopper gun" hull consistent from boat to boat. When an aluminum stretched hull is made,...it starts with a sheet of aluminum that is stretched evenly and consistently over a die, and the variences will be relatively the same from hull to hull. Quality standards and control will be much easier to maintain with aluminum than they will be with 'glass...it's the nature of the material and the processes involved....humans vs. machines.

Now,....as far as repairing a pad on aluminum vs. glass.....once again, the aluminum repair will be much faster and easier than with gel and 'glass. Uniform consistency's and balance will be easier to obtain with aluminum also, due to the amount of materials needed to make the repair. 'Glass will need fiberglass cloth, resins, gelcoats, putty's, and clearcoats and possibly metal flake glitters. These all add weight and can vary greatly in consistency from repair to repair. Aluminum repairs can be made with fewer materials that add very little weight,..usually just a little welding, sanding, and paint.

Aluminum will be much easier/faster/more consistent to original specs/ and CHEAPER to repair than 'glass......period!!

Mac

 

[Staci Matheis]

Mac -



The consistancy of thickness and weight are of absolutely no concern to me...... As long as they are sufficient to withstand the rigours we put boats through. Heck, if the repair is a bit thicker than the original hull - I'd just put a can of Caffiene Free Diet Dr. Pepper on the other side of the boat to balance it out!



Nor is the time or cost involved........ Just so it is done right.



I AM concerned about the consistancy of performance...... Maintaining a SURFACE on the pad area that is a mirror image on both sides. FREE of dings and dents that will errode performance. FREE of turbulance causing welds done by an inexperienced or, worse yet, incompetant welder......



Please understand, I am NOT being negative....... Just expressing and seeking a solution to a concern that I am sure is shared by one or two others out there........



me



P.S. Tracker Marine - If you're by any chance looking for someone to put an Avalanche to the test...... I'd be happy to come to your assistance!



(And...... By the way...... Think of the great photo op! Penny and me in the 2003 catalog!)

 

[Bill McElroy]

Well,...I guess it boils down to "WHO" does the repair and how good they are working with the materials involved,......you can get a hack doing a 'glass repair and a hack doing an aluminum repair.

BTW,..thickness and weight SHOULD be a concern, they're vital to performance and durability.....and any welding done on the running surface has to be sanded smooth AFTER welding,.....That's what's going to give you the consistently smooth surface and "mirror" finish we're looking for.