Paper Tournaments - How many of you do it?

[TritonGlenn]

Here in TX, on several of the lakes I've been to, in some of the clubs I've fished with, they hold "Paper Tournaments". They have some very good points, and some that I don't quite like.



Good:

With the heat, fish don't last long in a livewell. I fill mine, put on the recirc pumps, add "Please Release Me" crystals to it, and periodically during the day, I add ice. My fish are still lethargic at the end of the day, and when I release them, they are barely swimming away. Fishing the paper tournaments, you catch a fish, measure it to the nearest 1/4" (or 1/8" etc... depending on who you are fishing with), immediately drop it back into the water, and then do your calculation according to the chart they have. i.e. - 14 1/8" = 2.1 lb, etc... You keep track of your five biggest, and at the end of the day, "weigh ins" can be conducted after everyone is trailered and standing around. Doesn't take but a couple of minutes to do it.



Bad:

Not all of these tournaments are partner tournaments. You may, or may not, go out with a non-boater. So what is to keep someone from cheating? The honor system, I know. But some people are not quite as "honorable" when cash is on the line. I know who I have come to trust - good fishermen that come in and honestly say "I only caught 3 today, for a total weight of.... (and then say some reasonable weight). But there is always the guy who doesn't have time to prefish, but always seems to "luck into them" every tournament. He always has 5, and they are always big fish. They also wait to hear what everyone else is turning in for numbers before they announce their own. During the early part of the year, when the club isn't fishing a paper tournament, he just doesn't quite do so well. In fact, I'm being nice. He kinda sucks during live-fish weigh ins. But come "paper season", he's a bass pro. His excuse - "I always do better in the summer heat". Yeah... right.



OK... I got that off my chest.



I think paper tournaments are a great idea, especially in the summer heat we have. But I also think that every paper tournament should be a draw tournament - everyone pairs up. No exceptions.



Just wondering how many of you all do paper tournaments, and what you think of them.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Berry Lindley]

Agree with all above, especially in summer. Buddy them up, sometimes you may hae to trust 1 person if an odd number is fishing.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Sounds fishy to me:lol:

Agree that when money's on the line...SOMEONE will always figure a way to cheat.

Guesstimated weights don't help.

Digital pictures maybe? That's a tuffy Glenn........

 

[Brian Ingersoll]

Never done them, and am sort of afraid for the reason you have talked about. It only takes one person like that to ruin the fun for everyone.

 

[Jim B]

I have never done one but i believe the issues you mention must exist. I think the only way to keep it on the up and up is to have it be a draw format and have the other person record your measurements and maybe take photo's too.

 

[Mini]

If the entry fee is more than $10 I wont fish em. We have em here in the early Catch and Immediate Release season. All of the ones I have seen around here are draw tournaments to help with the cheating. But to me its inevitable that two guys that know each other will get paired together.



I woul dlike to see one with photo evidence of each fish. With Cell phones and cameras these days....



Actually there are Walleye tournaments now that feature the photo and release fishing. You are supplied a camera (with mem card) and a bump rule. Take the picture, hand over the camera once on shore and the determination is made on shore.



AIM (Angler Insight Marketing, or something like that) is running them. Kaviecz (sp) and Parsons were instrumental in getting it started and the organization is owned by the anglers...

 

[Scott Allen]

I just read of a huge fish kill from a "bring 'em in" tourney on the lower Potomac. Some say upwards of 1000 bass were found dead immediately after the event.The club my Dad belongs to has done nothing but paper for years and they get along fine. They make sure everyone is paired up even if they have to recruit a non-participant to ride along.



Scott

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

It was not the tournament that killed them on the Potomac....there were catfish and other species mixed in with the bass. It has yet to be determined what the cause was.



TOXIC

 

[Mini]

Dont you hate reporters with adgendas?



I read that article and I cant beleive any self respecting editor would allow it to go to print.

 

[TritonGlenn]

I just hate reporters... period. I think they all have adgendas.



I know there are some good ones out there, but I group them up like I group lawyers - some good... but the majority are taking up valuable air and space that someone else more deserving could be breathing and using.



A short time ago, someone talked me into getting the newspaper. "Keep up with current events" they told me. Well, I did. Within a week, I wasn't even reading it anymore. My head throbbed and blood pressure rose at least once per paper when I did read it because of some idiot reporting on something they have no knowledge of, but still felt qualified to report on. Very opinionated, and most often - dead wrong. They all feel that their opinion is fact. Sort of like... well... political discussions among Democrats and Republicans. :lol: (Sorry... Where is the "stir the pot" icon?)



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Scott Allen]

The report came from Ken Penrod's Fishing Report site: Here is the URL. I have no further knowledge of what went on other than this......



http://www.penrodsguides.com/fishingreport.htm

 

[Dan J.]

I have to agree with the honesty issues (or lack of) raised in a paper T. People get downright strange and can go against common morality quite easily over a few bucks. Without a neutral co or observer it seems like a recipe for disaster.

 

[john allen2]

We do a paper tournament and I like it but also I like to go to weigh in.. It's fun bringing a big sack. Has never happened when fishing a weigh-in tournament yet. All small fish.

Our club tournament let's you fish alone if you can't find a partner. I have fished alone and stunk it up.. When I have a partner I seem to do better. Don't know why that is.. Now that said we are a Christian bass club but there is one guy when fishing alone he always seems to do better than with a partner..We try to pair him with someone just to make sure.

We also don't have a lot of money on the line...

 

[Eric Aasen]

We only do paper tournaments except for big fish. That must be brought in. If a member can't be paired due to an odd number, he is also required to bring his 5 in. We all use the same Golden Rule and measure in the same way. We are talking about very little money though. I just won our last event in the CA Delta and the winnings were only $98 split between me and my co who incidentally didn't catch a fish but still got half the money! So not much incentive to cheat for us.



NoCAl

 

[TrepMan]

Never fished one, i am fishing a regular 5 fish limit tourney tonight 6:30 - 10:30pm. I agree with the honesty, but also using a formula doesn't realy give credit to the weight of the fish, i know i don't fish a lot of tourney's but even the ones i've fished and the years i've fished ,i've seen slightly smaller fish weigh more then longer, especially around the spawn (fat female vs. skinny male), so that really doesn't give credit to the guy who catches the heaviest fish!



And i've seen good numbers of dead fish after a bit tourney here, even in the winter/spring, if folks don't take care of them and have large enough livewell, areators... Interesting concept though. We have talked about something like that for our summer weekends here where the corp of engineers will NOT provide a permit for bass tournaments since they don't want the boat ramps to be overloaded and keep pleasure boaters/beach goers out of the ramp. We talked about doing big fish only and use digital scales and cell pictures... Just haven't pulled the trigger.

 

[pete hanford2]

my bass club does paper tournys all year. it easy to measure them and put them back right away. we give points based on length

 

[Jim in VA]

The Potomac fish kill involved about 600 fish. The number of carp, catfish and other non-target species was considered normal. What was strange about the bass kill was not only the extremely number, but that all the dead fish were of legal size and up - coincidentally two to three days after major FLW and other tournaments on two of the hottest days this summer. FLW's site even mentions tournament fisherman coming in with dead bass. On top of that MD DNR took water reading samples and found oxygen levels, temperatures and other conditions well within normal specs - in other words, no other reason appears to exist for a fish kill that was limited to legal sized bass.



I highly doubt this was simply reporter bias as this was reported in the Baltimore Sun (not known for anti-fishing bias). I also know that Gene Mueller of the Washington Times is investigating and planning to pen a story. Hard to claim reporter bias when it comes from two different papers AND you have a highly respected bass fishing guide (i.e., Ken Penrod) complaining as well.



MD DNR is investigating. We'll see what they say. Maybe consideration ought to be made about alternative options for big tournaments during the hottest times in the summer.

 

[Jim Corson]

Let me add my .02 worth on this thread. I "USED TO" fish tournaments for about 7 years but too much B.S. in my opinion, but thats another whole thread. I myself do not like fishing paper tournaments, as i believe when theres $$$$$$$$$$$$ involved, some people will do anything to win. I had an incident where we were fishing a paper tourny during spawn, and i had tried catching this certain bass for what seemed like 20 minutes, and lost my fair share of Senko's in his bed before finally hooking him, and landing him. Me and my non boater partner who was not my regular partner weighed him and he weighed i believe 3lbs 6ozs, by my digital scales, and supposedly all scales were zeroed out before the tournament. Another guy in the tourny, came in within minutes of seeing me catch this fish and landed the same fish, and weighed it, and said it weighed 3lbs 10ozs or there abouts, if i remember right and ended up winning the tourny. I'm not a sore loser but if theres any chance of cheating in a tournament, its in the paper tourneys. I love to catch bass during spawn just as much as anyone else but not having tournaments. Off the subject a bit, one year when i was fishing a tournament, me and my partner were in my boat fishing a shoreline, using the TM and we were probably 75' off shore casting in, when one of our own club members is up on plane, with his boat, went between my boat and shore, so i threw my arms up to say W.T.F., and he waved and kept going. Not 20 mins later, here he comes, and again, did the same thing. I could have reported him but didn't. I have more fun fishing with friends and my wife. Jim Corson

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I never fished a "Paper" tourney and have no idea how they could be fairly run. In my old days when I could hold two jobs, instead of sitting around like now, I managed three different liquor stores. Between the people who I hired whom had filled out an application off the street and other people I knew pretty darn well, EVERY ONE of them was caught stealing either cash, product, or both. You cannot trust people when cash is involved and especially when they have the opportunity to handle it.

If the pot of money in a tourney is large enough, even two strangers can plan on dividing up the money when the tourney is over. The talk may just start as joking around but it will get serious soon enough if the money is right.

As for that article in the Washington Post, for a great many years I have known of Ken Penrod and have met him more than a few times and although I think he's an arrogant a$$, I do not believe he would make up numbers in order to suit his agenda.

Also, knowing and hearing Joe Love speak a number of times, if he and his ilk at MD.D.N.R. estimated and admit to 600 dead bass, you can be assured it was probably double that. BASS had a tournament on the Potomac a few years ago during the spring spawn (the Classic?). Dozens of Maryland sports fishermen and Bass anglers who regularly fished the Potomac went to Annapolis for a protest/meeting with the DNR hierarchy. One of the DNR spokesmen admitted they expected at least a 15% fish kill and also admitted, when pushed about it, that most if not all of the females caught elsewhere and then released at Smallwood State Park would NOT apawn or even probably survive.

They talked about all of the water programs that could and would be funded by the revenue collected from all of these tournaments and how, in the long run, it would be better for the Potomac fishery. The local economy also boomed when these tournaments were in "town" they informed everyone. At that point, people either started walking out or just yelling at the dais so the DNR people disappeared and the meeting was over.

It was obvious that the MDDNR was not going to listen to anyone..

Some of this I know as fact and some as hearsay..



Uncle Billy

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Scott,



Wasn't trying to bust on you. I know Mr. Penrod well, I have done many shows with him and as a matter of fact, my partner in the guide service used to work for him. Ken has an agenda on the river....he has done some very good things but has in recent years gone a little.....eccentric. He is a member of the Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame and has been on the river many years. It is a little hypocritical to blast tournaments on the Potomac then make a living guiding the same people who fish in those tournaments.



As far as paper T's, I've never fished one but I have always said that once $$ is involved, it will bring out the worst in everyone involved. Even people you would never think of as dishonest are suspect and with paper T's it would be even worse. There's no disputing when you put them in the basket at weigh-in. I never have fish die in hot weather and I have one simple rule....Fresh Water. I don't use additives, frozen water bottles or any such thing. Additives have been proven to jack up your fish to make them look healthy and swim off only to die later when their "high" wears off. Frozen water bottles or ice have some downsides. If you run in rough water it will beat the living daylights out of your fish if you use water bottles. If you dump ice in the wells when it melts there are a lot of unhealthy chemicals in the cubes that make them sanitary for human consumption and bad for the fish. Besides, too many anglers can't control or don't know the temperature of their wells and end up dumping fish from colder well water into the hot lake and once again although they swim off, chances are they will suffer from some shock. For those that fill their wells, add the juice and/or ice then recirculate, they are holding their fish in a toxic bath (pun intended) by the end of the day because the fish excrete ammonia and other toxic chemicals. I simply put my wells on constant fill or Auto fill with the Auto pump out disabled and keep good fresh water flowing as much as possible. I will turn it off if I go into a muddy creek or in extra hot shallow water. My NITRO has the overflow vents so no water goes into my bilge. I used to raise expensive African fish (Happachromis Frontosia) and learned some valuable lessons on transporting and keeping fish healthy. I even had some that were shipped to me from Africa and did quarantine in England. I also used to ship them all over the US. Lose a couple of $300 fish and you learn real quick what it takes to keep fish healthy when out of their natural environment.



TOXIC

 

[TritonGlenn]

Tox,

Hearing what you are saying above, I know you know your stuff. I may have to change tactics then. I was going by what was taught to me by BASS Federation and WM BFL tournament officials several years ago. Exactly what you described to avoid is what they recommended to do - with one exception. Half-way through the day, we were instructed to pump out about half of our water and replace with fresh water, then continue the recirc process. I only use "Please Release Me" as they said it helps to replenish the coat on the fish. My fish are normally fairly lively in the well, even with those chemicals. I only use a cap full for each well, not a whole lot.

All the best,

Glenn

 

[Texas Transplant]

Glenn is right, there are more paper tourney's here than you can shake a stick at - although my club is strictly bring em and weigh em. However, I can tell you that my club WILL NOT FISH A SLOT LAKE for any reason. The popularity of the paper tourneys (here in E. Texas) really got going with lakes such as Fork, Athens, and others (primarily Fork). You can go to fork and catch a 20lb bag, and not be able to put one fish in the livewell. With a paper tourney, you get to compete.



I do think, that a better way than simply a 'scale reading' or 'formulation' is to also require a digital image (date/time stamped) of the fish with the golden rule beside the fish. Not foolproof, but nothing is.



I've not fished one, and don't think that I'd really like to. Although I do see some of the benefits. As hot as the water is right now (89 degrees under the bridge last weekend), fishing is slow and the fish are lethargic. Haven't fished here at night, for the 'night vision' is not that good, and just don't enjoy it as much anymore.



Tex