Obama's citizenship Question

[Greg Meyer]

Anybody know if this guy is blowing smoke or is this a real issue? From Steve Miller, a bloggist from Las Vegas..



"Barack Obama is not legally a US natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth; a law that was in effect between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, when the law was changed.



However, the new law did not preempt the former law in the cases of those born between the above listed dates when the old law was in effect.



Therefore, Senator Obama may very well be disqualified as the Democratic candidate in the upcoming Presidential campaign.



Presidential office requires the person elected to be a natural-born United States citizen if the child was not born to two US citizen parents.



US Law very clearly stipulates:

 

[TritonGlenn]

 

[Brad Harder]

It's not true (sadly) he was born in Hawaii, and that makes him a natural born citizen.

 

[Rich D]

The 14th amendment: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

 

[David Munaretto]

Amen RD - I love it when the constitution clarifies things so perfectly. Now if only it set a maximum % of income we could be taxed ;-)



David

 

[Bill McElroy]

Glenn,....If it were true,...Hillary would've used that against him loooong before McCain would have to!!



David,...the Dem's would NEVER agree to that...their sole purpose in life is to keep raising your taxes!!

BTW-...did you get your Tahoe or Yukon??

 

[Texas Transplant]

Watch out for the 'August Surprise'.



When the Dem's meet in several more weeks, watch out for a possible 'August Surprise'.



Clinton's name 'will be put into nomination'. Both she and Obama have said that the Florida and Michigan delgates should be 'seated and allowed to vote'.



All of a sudden, Obama's coronation doesn't look that much like a sure fire deal.



Inquiring minds want to know!



Should be interesting to watch. :wacko:



Tex

 

[Greg Meyer]

I did a little poking around and found that under the radar there are some concerns in this matter.



Obama's campaign has been very tight lipped about an Official Birth Certificate (COLB...certificate of live birth). One document examiner (and I don't know if he has any or a lot of credibility) says the CLOB provided is a fake/forgery. Others say it is legitimate.



I guess this is an issue because the President MUST be a native born US Citizen, not a naturalized one. (McCain is because even though he was born in the Panama Canal Zone while his father was in the Navy, both his parents were US citizens, and that made him one). If Obama was not born in Hawaii there could be questions because his father was not a US citizen and his mother alone might not qualify him. This is complicated further by the possibility that his parents were not legally married because his father may have had a previous wife from a marriage outside the US that was still valid. That might make his marriage to Obama's mother void and thereby invoking another set of rules, regulations and laws concerning children born outside the US to a single mother. Oh well, what a story for the ENQUIRER this could make if there are problems.



Anybody else, please feel free to post info or links, etc. I am fascinated by this "twist".

 

[Jim C]

More great GOP facts floating around in e-mails again? And this is the stuff alot of Americans believe and base their decision on? :wacko: :blink: :lol: I'm amazed at what I see in e-mails about Obama. A guy at work is on the anti-Obama mailing list LOL and I'm shocked at some of the stuff he gets. I wonder if the screwballz who start these e-mails, and the idiots that belive it, ever thought that it makes an independent voter like myself even more sickened by the twisted, vindictive right wing of this country? aDo they realize it makes many independents more likely to vote, not directly for Obama, but against the Rove establishment and like tactics. I'm sure they get kicks out of writing it and their whacko buddies enjoy reading, believing it, and passing it around, but they're only hurting themselves in the end. Maybe they'll realize it in November when they're staring at president Obama on TV, knowing they helped him win.

 

[Jim C]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

 

[Greg Meyer]

Terroreyes,



I don't know who "started" this "story". But, I got it from my sister-in-law. Her husband's brother may or may not have provided it to her... He is one of many Admirals and Generals who worked on Hillary's campaign. I saw him on many a stage with her throughout the long campaign. So, I would not be too quick to attribute this to the Republicans. There are some Democrats who are not too fond of Barack Obama. And, the Clintons were not all that "clean" in their tactics. Likewise, who started the McCain had an affair story? Probably, according to your line of logic, a Democratic operative... That was equally disgusting, I hope. I am careful here, I don't believe or disbelieve this, yet. I am just merrily reading along with the rest of us.



I just find it a fascinating story. Like a Clancy novel... what if? Lots of kids are very surprised to find out about their "past" when they grow up.

 

[Gilbert Scales2]

I really shouldn't even get into this thread. I do however had a question, what Democrat, or for that matter any public offical is that believable??? I am voting for Obama,(NOT) with all his experience, and truthful statments about his churches, I know he is an honorable man, who is just confused. I really believe Hillary is just as crazy, as this looney tune. I am one of the idiots who believe the stuff I read about Obama, But I won't be one of the Idoits who vote for goof ball.



Bubby

 

[Jim C]

Don't take it as I was ripping on you Greg. You obviously didn't eat it up whole-heartedly. You questioned it. An INFORMED voter, who questions and researches. I'd never fault anyone for an informed vote. If the whole country agreed, we would have no need for an election AND her surprisingly impecable voting record for issues near to me. It's people who disregard candidates based on party, race, stereotypes, e-mail garbage, etc, and people who vote solely on one issue like guns or abortion(either side) that I have a problem with.



For any of those familiar, I had to vote for Kwame's mommy! Carolyn Cheeks Kilpatrick. After doing my due dilligence and researching my candidates, I had no choice. As much as I despise the racist, and her son, I had to vote for her based on her oppositions voting records. Did I like it? No!!!!! But, I can sleep tight at night knowing I voted for the person who best represents me.



Yeah, good chance it could have come from the Hildabeast camp. I don't think we've heard the last of her. It just fits the GOP mo though and stinks of the unbelievably negative campaign Mc Cain is running. Obama is headed right down that path also. Talk about pandering!







Ole Bubs, before you belive everything rumored or e-mailed about any candidate, at least take the 10 minutes you spent here on fishing, to research whether the bull you hear is true.

 

[Gilbert Scales2]

My friend, I reasearched enough to know he has very little experience. With the way this country is going, we don't need that.



Bubby

 

[Greg Meyer]

I do laugh at what will eventually be made of the Primary Campaign statements, speeches and sound bites... Fits in with Bubby's concerns. I am from Illinois and my son, who worked for an Illinois State Senator, is very familiar with Obama... My son says he's the closest thing to a "communist" in political philosophy that ever served in the Illinois Legislature. His voting record does support that... never met an entitlement or tax that he didn't like... So, be concerned, I am...



One from Hillary that I heard (paraphrasing as little as possible)...



John McCain would bring a lifetime of public service to the White House... Barack Obama gave a speech in 2002...



And, I am sure that someone will be quoting Romney or some other Republican...

 

[Jim C]

Ok, sure thing Bubs :lol:

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Politics = Crooks

Politics + Fishing Boards = Disaster

 

[TrepMan]

Hey Tee - Lets throw in Dodge Vs. Chevy Vs. Ford! Oh wait, lets add US vs. Import Trucks!



Just be dang proud we can and do have the ability to vote for who we find most appropriate/appealing to our personal politics, 'cause there are parts of the world I visit often you get whatcha get an dont pitchafit, or ....



Trep

 

[Larry Harp]

Trep, that's true but I think what Tee is saying is good advice. What I've found on these fishing boards is if you disagree with the popular opinion you become persona non grata. People only want your opinion if you agree with them.

 

[Bill McElroy]

..or if you can get them a HUGE discount!! LOL :lol:

 

[TrepMan]

Or if you offer to take the fishing for free if you every venture far enough South!!! LOL OK Mac, Foul on my part, Shanghai is WAY to far south!!! LOL

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Politics....

Notice how the latter of the word is "tic"!

Blood suckers!

 

[Bill McElroy]

Trep,...I'd rather try Shanghai's airport before I ever want to deal with Hartsfield again! OMG...what a major PIA!!!

 

[Dan J.]

That's Hartsfield-Jackson PIA! Not to be outdone by Cynthia McKinney Parkway. (Yep! That farce of a public servant, ex-congress woman :lol: and green party candidate has a highway named after her!:wacko: ) And don't forget Ralph D. Abernathy Expressway. (Believe it or not, yet another Atlanta thoroughfare named after a criminal and posterchild of corrupt politicians.) Zell Miller Parkway is in the north part of the ATL suburbs and named after another living politician, although of seemingly much higher character. (As far as politicians go. :lol: ) Except for Jackson, these other folk are living politicians with big money roads in their name. Steen Miles, a local news reporter turned statesperson, nominated, of all people, Jane Fonda to have a road renamed for her!! :wacko::blink::angry: Luckily, that one got laughed down. Mrs. Miles was so immediately bombarded by negative support for her motion that she stried to retract it, but the state congress wouldn't let her. They insisted on it going to vote and nationally humiliated Fonda and Miles with an overwhelming no vote. :lol:



As far as Obama goes, I'm sure his education and experience will do us all well. I've heard he's recently earned some more affection around Atlanta. When the Russians invaded Georgia, I heard he immediately called Gov. Sonny Perdue and asked if he could keep them away from Atlanta until the election. :lol::lol::lol:

 

[Greg Meyer]

One noteworthy aspect of this board is that even when politics is discussed it is done respectfully (and it better be or we will appeal to the fish gods to punish a miscreant for defiling our good natured board). I don't have the hesitation to discuss much here that I would never bring up on some other boards.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Hey...don't downplay his "experience".......i heard he did sit on some committee somewhere along the way........the dude's not even qualified to run a city park!!

 

[TOMMY RICH]

FO SHO!:lol:

 

[Jim C]

Experience = same ole song and dance, deficits, increased spending, fiscal irresponsibility, HUGE government, pork, pork, more pork, conflicts, war, more war, a little more war, more deficits as a result, decreased public services(police & fire, etc) increased crime, increased poverty, increased unemployemnt, rising inflation, skyrocketing trade deficit, loss of the middle class, homosexuality LOL, and on and on and on.





And you want Mc Cain experience? Aren't you the same people who voted for Bush just because he was a republican? Thanks alot! Great call!!! Now your going to do it again!??? :wacko: Sorry, but it's time for a changing of the guard and for the next generation of this country to grab it by the nads and steer in the right direction and out of the hands of the out of date "good ole boys".

 

[Dan J.]

Experience = same ole song and dance, deficits, increased spending, fiscal irresponsibility, HUGE government, pork, pork, more pork, conflicts, war, more war, a little more war, more deficits as a result, decreased public services(police & fire, etc) increased crime, increased poverty, increased unemployemnt, rising inflation, skyrocketing trade deficit, loss of the middle class, and on and on and on.

The "Guard" got changed when Pelosi and her fellow party members gained majority control. Your quote above accurately describes their actions since. Nothing beneficial has been done by them in the two years they've had control. If you think electing any one person to take up residence in Penn. Ave. will fix our woes, you might want to take a refresher course in Civics 101. Congress has much more control (or lack thereof) than the president's office and their progress so far sure isn't putting any numbers on the board for the home team. :wacko:

 

[Greg Meyer]

I think Terroreyes has a point, to a degree, but I don't agree that Obama is the answer. To a great extent experience does, many times, lead to a repition of the past mistakes. However, a "fresh approach" is not the only thing needed. Leadership, a hard to quantify commodity, is the most important aspect of the job of President. Without "leadership" noone, not Obama, McCain or anyone else, will ever effectively alter the course of the nation.



Pelosi "promised" many things, together with Harry Reid in the Eenate, they promised a lot. They have accomplished little. They "blame" the obstructionist Republicans. But, remember, the Republicans got to blame the "obstructionist" Democrats in the the prior Congress. So, no "leadership" from Pelosi or Reid, in my opinion. I don't think anything in Obama's past in dicates any great leadership skills. His record in Illinois, something I am familiar with and able to provide in great detail, shows me nothing. He was one of the most subservient Senators, doing the beck and call of the Chicago Machine at every turn. Prior to that, as a "comminity organizer", he started nothing and finished nothing. He was just a bit player in an organization. In the US Senate, what little time he has been there has, of the two years, 18 months has been dominated by his Presidential Campaign. He has a very poor attendance record. And, he has been neither the author or principal sponsor of anything of any substance. On a scale of 1 to 10 he probably rates a 2-3-4 at best as a leader.



While you may not agree with all or even a part of his "program", you must grudgingly, if necessary, admit the Reagan was a leader. He had a "quality" that saw ways to form consensuses and get something moving.



Obama will bring with him a huge party machinery, just as any President does. He does not show me the character needed to be the leader of that machinery. His every past indication is that he will be an empty suit sitting in the chair following the dictates of the Dremocratic Party machinery. That is one of the big complaints I hear about this President Bush, he does what the Republican "hacks", the neocons, or whatever "they:" are called, wants him to do. (I don't believe it because I know people who work in the White House who say he runs it) But, that is a big fear I have of Obama, I don't like his philosophy at all, but I like his lac k of ijndependence and lack of leadership, even more.



As I compare McCain and Obama, I see McCain as a man who has repeatedly angered me and other Republicans because he would not support the President if he believed he could not do so in good conscience. I know of no instance where Obama stood his ground and opposed his party leadership on any issue.



Neither candidate is going to be able to run the government their way unless thay can lead. That is what I want, a leader with the ability to do what he believes is right for the country. Right now, I see only McCain as having that character in any degree.



Show me Obama can lead. And, show me what "change" means. Then maybe I would give more credence to what he says he will do. Right now I see only a polician running awqay from his record and trying to convince the public that the real Obama is not the one who voted the way he did in Illinois.



See, we can all discuss this here without it getting personal... Now, tin versus plastic well that's different! But, I know Terroreyes is a good guy because he drives tin.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

WEll, I know one way to honorable discourse is to do what most Democrats do when faced with any kind of question about anyone they are trying to stampede into the White house..They get hysterical and yell, cry and scream and start finger pointing, the same thing they accuse the Republicans of doing but they have it down to a science.



Let's see. "Stuff, screwballz, idiots, sickened, twisted, vindictive, Whacko.." Good Grief, all of those words in 11 sentences..



Personally, I don't care for John McCain but you couldn't pay me enough money to vote for

Obama. Not only doesn't have any experience in ANYTHING I'm starting to believe he's the Anti-Christ! And I'm not kidding! He'll probably win however the same way Slick Willie did. All of the women on Ellen DeGeneres today said they were going to vote for him and even though Oprah has backed away from her position, it's too late. Her ilk will vote for him too. And while everyone is checking on things, is there a way to find out why Obama's wife's dissertation is locked up until after the elections? The few reporters who saw it before it was sealed said it was one of the most racist papers they have ever read? And speaking of papers, maybe a lot of these e-mail 'stories' wouldn't spread like wildfire if the LIBERAL PRESS would play fair and print all the news. The day it was reported worldwide of the Democratic golden boy, John Edwards having an affair, it wasn't printed in the Times until the next day!! Status quo for the press..

Experience = same ole song and dance, deficits, increased spending, fiscal irresponsibility, HUGE government, pork, pork, more pork, conflicts, war, more war, a little more war, more deficits as a result, decreased public services(police & fire, etc) increased crime, increased poverty, increased unemployemnt, rising inflation, skyrocketing trade deficit, loss of the middle class, homosexuality LOL, and on and on and on.

Well, I never thought I'd see the day a Democrat would lambast his own Party?!?! You ARE

talking about the Democratic controlled Congress aren't you??

And you want Mc Cain experience? Aren't you the same people who voted for Bush just because he was a republican? Thanks alot! Great call!!! Now your going to do it again!??? Sorry, but it's time for a changing of the guard and for the next generation of this country to grab it by the nads and steer in the right direction and out of the hands of the out of date "good ole boys".

Answer to your first question - YES.. Answer to second question - YES.. You're welcome

and I think it was a great call too.. The last time I heard a phrase like, 'changing of the guard', etc..we got the Clinton's. The slimiest President in the history of this country! When taxes start rising along with fees and user costs I don't want to hear any crying.. See what happens when discourse is started on the note you brought to the table?

I'm out of it now..



Uncle Billy



P.s. Darn it Greg... Why didn't you tell me he drove Tin before I wrote all of that stuff?:angry:

 

[Jim C]

Billy, how dare you call me a Democrat! LOL I plainly stated that I was independent. For the record, I'm voting for a Republican........ Ron Paul. BUT, if it's a tight race with McCain and Obama, I've voting Obama. Like I said, it just drives me nuts when people fixate on one party and could care less who the candidate is, only that the person is from a particular party. I just see too much of it here to stomach. Just happens to be republicans. If you all were Democrats, I'd post just the same.



As for Bill, he did this country alot of good no matter what happened in his personal life and how much a slimeball I'll admit he was. You can't deny that times were good under his watch. But, I would like to take NAFTA and the deregulation of the commodities, turn them sideways, and shove them................



As for taxes! Give me more!!!!! To an extent. Obama is a bit overboard. I'll gladly give Bush his $400 per year back I save to get my services back. Along with: The 66% of my police force laid off. The 50% of my fire department laid off. 50% of city workers laid off. The State police laid off. Descent roads. Etc. Seems like a better deal with the higher taxes to me. I think I paid over $400 in repairs to my vehicle this year for repair because of the deteriorating roads! $170 for a tire last week from a pothole. Until someone cuts the pork, government isn't getting any cheaper. The costs just get passed down to the sate and local level, who untimately take the heat for it. 4 years ago, I would have voted for McCain based on his opposition to pork and special interests, but now he's sold out too. Obama looks hopeful being "green" to the corruption, but it looks like he's falling in line with the rest and becoming a great panderer. We could still get a few good years out of him though. Inexperience does have it's benefits. Presidents have advisors for a reason. They're not experts in too much. They're politicians!

 

[Bill McElroy]

Terror....GOOD points!!

 

[Greg Meyer]

Terroreyes,



You state; "As for taxes! Give me more!!!!! To an extent. Obama is a bit overboard. I'll gladly give Bush his $400 per year back I save to get my services back. Along with: The 66% of my police force laid off. The 50% of my fire department laid off. 50% of city workers laid off. The State police laid off. Descent roads. Etc. Seems like a better deal with the higher taxes to me. I think I paid over $400 in repairs to my vehicle this year for repair because of the deteriorating roads! $170 for a tire last week from a pothole."



The last time I looked... "police", "fire", "city workers", (most, at least half of) "roads" and "services" were paid for from State and local taxes paid to local taxing bodies. The "feds" have only a token role in any of that except for federal road money frommotor fuel taxes collected and returned to the states.



Obama will definitely tax you more, but he won't spend any of that on local programs that you want to see improved.



You have been sucked in if you honestly believe; "Obama looks hopeful being "green" to the corruption"



Obama is far from "green" to money corruption. Can you say; "Tony Rezko"? He is the convicted Democractic fundraiser from here in Illinois that gave "Pay to Play" new political meaning. He has been a big contributor to Obama and he had a "sleazy" hand in a real estate deal with Obama that conveyed a few hundred thousand dollars worth of real estate to Obama. I have available copies of the deeds and clsoing documents and my son would be happy to share an explanation with you. Obama is a creature of the Chicago Democratic Machine. A more corrupt crowd of politicians has not lived in the past or present. He is one of them.

 

[Jim C]

One example of federal funding directly to local and state law enforcement. The Edward Byrne Memorial Justice Assistance Grant program. Bush cut funding to that program from $900 million to $200 million, and then diverted $609 million to the Iraqi police departments. Luckily the Senate boosted it to $490 million. Geez thanks GW! Iraq, a country smaller than some of our states, should get 3x the amount of money our entire country receives???? Beyond that, it's rob Peter to pay Paul at the state and federal level. When feds cut funding for whatever beyond a point, citites or states have to lay off workers to make up for the shortfall in other parts of the budget. They may have to lay off 5% of the police to repave a road they no longer get funds for. There's an endless amount of programs the feds kick money into that have been cut or eliminated.



"Green" to me doesn't mean he's never dabbled in or experienced special interests or typical politics. He's just a newcomer at it and not entrenched in favors that need repaying. If you have a long political career, you've accumulated alot of favors and donations that need repaying. Remember the Keating 5???? Mc Cain was neck deep in corruption, what, 20 years ago? You don't think he's in over his head by now? That's why Ron Paul is getting my vote. Beyond his common sense approach to government, he's one of the squeakiest clean politicians in our country!



I thought the California democrats were the most corrupt politicians out there? Or the Clintons? Can't forget about Pelosi or Kennedy. I wish you people would make up your mind. :lol:



Greg, here's some facts about federal tax $$$ and how they're spent at the local and state level



Also, check out the other link with FACTS about Rezko, not a political spin on it. He played BOTH sides of the aisle, contributing and links to both parties. There's not a shred of evidence that Obama ever did squat for him except take his donations. I think every candidate that ran this year had to give money back because some sleaze ball donated to their campaign.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Rezko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_assistance_in_the_United_States

 

[Greg Meyer]

I live in Illinois... I have seen copies of the deed to the adjacent lot that Obama bought from Rezko... Dabbled? Look into real estate transcations and commissions paid to the Governor's wife... Listen to the testimony at Rezko's trial... Don't give me that "they both got money"... You know how they release excerpts of grand just proceedings as it relates to a trial? Well at Rezko's trial they went through Public Official (elected... we don't have any elected Republicnas in Constitutional Offices in Illinois... They are all allies of obe faction of the Chicago/Cook County Machine)... Anyway, from Public Official "A" (reported to be the current Governor) through "Z"... then onto "AA through QQ". Between Stuart Levine and Tony Rezko they had there fingers into that many "Public Officials". That much sleaze and you are trying to tell me that Obama, who does cozy real estate deals with Tony, is not one of the "Pay to PLay" crowd. They don't do these deals on national TV and they do try to hide them... This is one time when I have to run with the "guilt by ASSOCIATION" concept... Rezko never met a politician that he didn't "turn"... If they got money from him, he got favors! And, if Republicans did the "cozying" what does that have to do with negating Obama's role.



Tony "bought" futures... nobody got money from him for nothing.



You might remember I am a retired LEO. You should see what that Federal Program paid for at the local level. Can you say "waste and Pork"? Little towns in Central Podunk bought SWAT Communications trucks.... Do the math, $900 million in 50 states is about $18 Million... Take Illinois and divide that by 102 counties and another 3000 municipalities (yeah I know it was not divided that way). That about $5800 per entity. And, do not forget that it takes about 38% in overhead to administer a Federal Program that gives "grants" to local govenments. So, only about $550,000.000 would actually go to "programs" through the grant system. Or, about $3000 per entity in Illinois. So, they take $900,000,000 in taxes and generate only $540,000,000.00 in benefit to us taxpayers. Not a great efficient system. Local governements are (believe it or not) much more efficient.



I may not be happy with some of the costs of the war in Iraq, but that is certainly not a reason to dress up a sows ear and call it a silk purse. Most Departments never put grant money, unless it is a specific program feature, into manpower. Nor, do they use it for "regular" capital expenditures. Like Chicago, they spend it on $2.4 Million Dollar Mobile Command Centers. (The one bought by Chicago with the Byrnes Grant has not ever been deployed for actual use, just show and tell and training. Glad they got "theirs"...????



The Feds are not there to shift money from Connecticut or Missouri to Detroit. Federal funding should be for Federal projects, as a general rule. We have a "Republic" with sovereign States for a reason.



Where do you think you and your immediate neighbors have a better chance of influencing a political decision? At your local government, School Board, City Council or County Government or in Washington? When your neighbors, elected to local government bodies, decide what to spend your money on... you have a chance to call them on the phone, go down to their meeting and be heard... When was the last (or first) time a Senator or Congressman or the President had an opportunity to hear your views? In what forum do you even have a chance to have your view heard by them? I like to stay close to my money and closer to the politicians who are spending it. Ted Stevens and the bridge to nowhere is as good an example as I need. McCain, unlike Obama, has never dragged a dimne out of your pocket for any "member initiative". I like that, a lot. I will get you the numbers on Obama. He never met an entitlement program that he didn't like... And, he wants to

 

[TrepMan]

I'm probably about as independent is as Terroreyes, Voted Clinton once and Perot once against the Republicans, but dang I've not heard or seen or read anything from Obama that would make me vote for him! I would love to see our Fed/States redirect more of my taxes to police/fire/safety... but not one of the two candidates is proposing lowering the spending in other programs to do it, and raising taxes is not the way. Why give more $$ to a systems that is not doing what we expect it to do with what we already pay in?



We have an overbloated federal government, neither Bush nor Clinton reduced the size of it, both have allowed it to increase way beyond necessity and mostly for vote-buying programs and political power trips to keep themselves and others in their parties in office longer.



Dang, give me a candidate who's for personal responsibility (lawsuit reform, freedom as long as it doesn't imfringe the rights of others...), Fiscal responsibility (lower taxes, reduction in useless programs...), support for those REALLY in need, support for our Military, and other really valuable civil servants, reduce or do away with the IRS (Fair Tax), encourage our US companies to stay in the US (personal experience on double taxation being overseas)...



Maybe i'll vote for Bob Barr and the Libertarian party this time! Anytime you have 2 strong parties/powers its all about the politics, we need more "balance".



At least we GET to vote and dissent on a regular basis, unlike some countries around the world



I'll be happy to vote for the candidate who shows me the courage and balls to stand up to the estabishment for we the people, not we the mob rules, not we the politicians, not we the lazy....



Trep

 

[Jim C]

Sounds like Ron Paul's your man. Even though he won't be the republican nominee, I'm writing him in anyways, just like many other people. If people would get over the "wasted vote" concept, we'd have a third party. I know soooooooooooooooooooo many people who were going to vote for him, but decided at the last minute to not waste their vote. :angry:

 

[Jim C]

Well, after digging a little online, I guess you're right! Obama does look pretty bad in that land deal. I never saw the huge difference in price of that side parcel before. WOW! BUT, I could not find one single shred that there was ever anything repaid. Nothing. No votes on anything regarding to Rezko. No contracts, nothing. If you know of any, please post!



I'll still argue to the bone about the federal tax dollars. You're right, a republic is supposed to function that way on paper. But we don't! :blink:

 

[Greg Meyer]

T'eyes,



As I said... They don't usually make their deals so transparent that you and I can find them easily. And, while I am sure that there was "something" traded and expected, I don't have a smoking gun... But, then if I did he would be in an orange jump suit!



You just have to suspend reality to believe that Rezko did that out of "generosity"...

 

[Jim C]

I hear ya. Even if nothing did happen, eventually the debt would have been paid. Exactly what I've been saying!!! More experience, more political debts to be paid. BUT, there's the part of me that thinks Obama just outright took advantage of him with no payback intended! LOL With McCain, he did have evidence against him with the Keating scandal, but just not enough to prosecute. Quite a bit dirtier than Obama on the surace in regards to influence scandals. He was actually brought before an ethics commitee. Mc Cain didn't hurt anyone? 21,000 people lost their entire life savings and we, the tax payers, were on the hook for over $2 billion!!! I guess it's just a fraction of what GW put us on the hook for in the financial bail-outs in the last few months. Ahhhh, let's vote for more of the same.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Terroreyes, I can to deny that Slick Willy did any good. For one thing, he should have accepted the gift wrapped Osama Bin Laden that was being handed to him.

AND How dare you call me a Republican!!! Oh wait a minute, ooooops, I am a Republican and in the infamous words of Emily LaTella, "Never Mind!"...:lol:

Like I said, it just drives me nuts when people fixate on one party and could care less who the candidate is, only that the person is from a particular party.

This is where I agree with you except it's not only because the person is from a particular political party but are a member of a certain ethnic group, be it Latino, Black, Asian, etc.!! Watching local TV this evening I saw a reporter go outside with three photographs to show people on the street and ask who they were..It was basically to see how many people would know Michael Phelps. 50% knew who the first picture was, John McCain.. About 20%, and this was in Baltimore mind you, knew who the second picture was, Michael Phelps, and 90% knew who the next picture was, Barack Obama. And most of the Black people that were asked didn't know who McCain or Phelps were but sure did know who Obama was. Two of them, when asked who Obama was, answered "Our next President"! When asked if there was any scenario that would induce them to vote for McCain, they and a few people surrounding them, shouted NO!

They didn't even know who Obama was running against and they didn't care, they were voting for him because he was black! I would have loved to ask "if he was found to be connected to the Taliban in any way, would you still vote for him" or "would you vote for a White Woman or a Black Man" and do you have to know anything at all about any of them?? But for some unknown reason, the television station don't ask me what I think or what I'd do?:huh::wacko:



Some years ago I worked with one of the nicest, greatest guys you would ever want to meet. Literally the guy who give you the shirt off his back. Jose' Canto was his name and we had plenty of friendly arguments about politics because he would not bend from his stand that should a Hispanic run for any fairly high up office he would, without a shadow of a doubt, vote for the Hispanic. NO MATTER WHAT! It used to infuriate me but there was nothing I could really do?:huh::angry: I would love to see him again so I could ask what he thinks about this election.



Just Remember, If at 25 you're not a Democrat you have not heart..

If at 45 you're not a Republican you have no brain!!



Uncle Billy