New respect for Toyota

[Mike Zechman]

Well, I'll start off by appologizin' to you Toyota Owners for bashin' your trucks. I will say my ignorance got the best of me on that subject. My issue was always,"they bombed us" not American, ect and so on. So a buddy of mine(who has a Tacoma) wants to upgrade to a Tundra, and he tells me I'm so ignorant, that I won't even look at the Toyotas to compare to mine. So we made a friendly bet, and I went with him to look at these Tundra's. Heres my take.

I walked up to a 2007 5.7 Liter crew max. Right off the bat I was impressed with the overall appearance. A quick look around the truck, told me right away, this a truck unlike any other I have looked at. The frame was so beefy under the thing, I decide to take some pics to compare to my 2001 Silverado. Lets just say the frame on my truck is kinda like a thin channel type frame, compared to the tundras beefy tube frame. The tailgate has lift assist, which I never heard of, and man is that cool. 18" wheels were beautiful. The front grill was so beefed up if you grab ahold of it and shake it, you could tell it wasn't plastic, matter of fact you couldn't move it, the GMC sierra I looked at down the road to compare, the front grill along with the rest of the front would rattle and shake when you grabbed hold. A look inside, and that

 

[Marty Klein]

Tailgate assist? What kind of pantywaist can't put up a tailgate without an assist--:lol:? A friend of mine is a diehard Toyota truck man. He told me that until this new Tundra Toyota wasn't really building trucks.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Comparing a 07 'Yota to a 01 Silverado??...dude,....how about apples to apples??!! Put that 07 'Yota up against an '07 Silverado.,...then you will see why the Silverado is the 2007 TRUCK of the YEAR!!:wub: (BTW,...what kind of Powertrain WARRANTY do you get with that 'Yota,....see what they say when you ask them if they'll match GM's 5yr 100,000 mile,....Front console that folds up to form a 3rd seat,..got it in mine...does theirs also have a 2nd Locking storage under the seat for a laptop??...ours does!!.....I have 18" wheels on my truck,....a 6 disc changer and JBL speakers??...we have that too but we use Bose speakers,..much better!! .....Oh,...and our truck is less $$ too....just so your completely "informed".........The Silverado costs less,...has the same or better options...and comes with a MUCH better warranty,...all good things to consider!!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Touche Mac.......



With all of the bad press Toyota has been getting lakely and having the recalls that they have, I would be suspect on that fact alone. I have been very happy with my o4' Silvey so I have had no reason to look around.



TOXIC

 

[Mike Zechman]

Read again, I compared to a Sierra,2007, the only Sierra that compares to the size truck of the yota is a 2500HD, as far as the Silverado, I will be looking at them tomorrow and test drivin one also, the Siearra inside was too bland, and the whole truck was too small, like comparing a Colorado to a 2500....i'll let ya know what I think of the new Silverado when I check it out tomorrow, all I was sayin, is the Toyota's definitly are worth looking at, I was originally looking at Sierra or Silverado, now the Sierra is out

 

[Bill McElroy]

Just make sure you compare trucks that are comparably equipped......or ask to see a "loaded" Silverado..:lol:

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Do what a truly informed buyer would/should do and read up on your recall info. Doesn't do you any good to get a truck that looks good and has all the bells and whistles..................then gets recalled.



TOXIC

 

[Bob G.]

I remember when it used to be a GM and Ford p*ssing match!!!



Still GM trucks for me!!



Bob G.

 

[Mike Zechman]

Any truck can get recalled, when you buy it or after for that matter, heck my Chevy has been recalled 5 times since 01, nothin major, but recalled none the less. this truck i looked at is fine, it was just delivered Friday.All I'm sayin is, i didn't think Toyota had much to offer, but after actually looking at them, they do and are very impressive

 

[Marty Klein]

Bland? It's a truck, and a GM product--LOL!!

 

[Texas Transplant]

Done went and stirred up the Michigan Mafia - again!



Hey, if Mike likes the looks of the new Tundra, so be it. I'm not looking to buy a new truck, so I don't have a dog in this fight (other than EDS does the IT for GM).



Tex

 

[Bill McElroy]

LOL @ Tex,......I don't care what people buy either,...it's an individuals choice,...BUT,..if we're going to compare trucks,..atleast make sure they all have the same options (or as close as possible, anyway)....and as far as warranty goes..NOBODY in the industry has a better powertrain warranty than GM!! There's also a world of difference between Mike's '01 Silverado and the new '07's.........he will be VERY MUCH surprised and undoubtedly impressed with ours too! That's where I draw the line though,..ahahahaa..."Respect" the ENEMY??!! NEVER,....not in this business!!

 

[Mike Zechman]

gotta respect the enemy, actually not the emeny anymore, since they all but american as much as the rest, I'll let ya know about the silverado since I'm headin to see em tonight now, belive me this dealer dude doesn't want me to goto Toyota, he says he'll beat any deal they give me, we'll see

 

[Jim B]

Mike you are really splitting hairs here on the size thing. All of the full sized trucks compare within thenths of an inch of each other in most regards. For instance The Chevy is 222.9" long, the Toyota 227.7", The Chevy 79.9" wide, the Toyota 79.9", The Toyota is a little over 2" taller then the Chevy. In reality the numbers are all really close, same goes for the interior, and thats across all of them not just GM and Toyota. the Tundra looks bigger then it really is, park it next to any of the other full sized trucks out there and it doesnt look bigger anymore.



My first impression of the Toyota is it felt smaller inside to me then my 06 Chevy. It reminded me of a lariat Ford inside with a lot of dash and you sit really close to the wheel and super firm seats. I like the seats in my 06 a lot better(its like driving a leather lay-z-boy) and the new LTZ chevy is even nicer then my 06 LT3. The guy i sit next to at work has a brand new limited tundra and im not impressed with the interior at all, i think the new GM high end interior is much nicer. The tranny he munched at 2500 miles doesnt leave me too impressed either.



I also think the price they are asking is out of site. The guy i sit next to paid well up over 40k for his since they give like 13 cents off sticker on a Totota around here. For that money i would much rather have a GMC Sierra Denali. The interior is way more upscale and the 6.2l(403hp 417lb/ft torque) motor packs more punch then the Toyota with better mileage.

 

[Mike Zechman]

Geez, all I was sayin is I really like them, the inside of the crew max I looked in was way bigger than the GMC crew cab, WAY bigger, I am 6'2" and could easily fit in the back seat with the front seat all the way back, this truck is comparable price wise to the Silverado crew I'm lookin tonight, except the toyota dude knocked off 3k to bring the price on it to 33k, the Silverado I will be seein is priced at 37,985, and isn't near the HP of the toyota, I saw the toyota compared to the GMC 1500 crew, and the toyota is definetly bigger, and much nicer, than that model, I have no issues with my current Silverado, except for I went through 4 sets of brakes, and my 98 Silverado was the same, and at 92k miles I went through a rear end too, i'd like to keep my trucks for a long time, but my last 2 Silverados both gave me issues at around 90k, my truck now just had ta wheel bearing go on the way home from Lake Anna....I would hope the new silverados are better than my last 2, which both were "new styles" and motor trends truck of the year

 

[Edward Lea.]

Ford 'nuf said'

 

[Marty Klein]

Look; you like the Toyota with its tailgate assist, unbland interior and rear seat leg room [Are you planning on driving from back there?], so buy it. Why would you listen to the advice re: a truck manufacturer who can't make running lights that work. Start looking at GM vehicles and take note of how many are cruising along with only one running light working. Is that a sign of quality being job one? i don't think so.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

LOL at Marty. I'd much rater have a running light out (problem has been fixed now anyway) than sittin on the side of the road with my boat and a smoked tranny. That's exactly why I bought a 3/4 ton with 4.10's. Neither Toy or Nissan had that size truck when I looked.



Mike you are never gonna be able to make a comment about a truck, or boat for that matter and not stir up the hornets. The pluses and minuses of all brands are out there if you look long enough. With all things being equal, I know someone who works for GM and for that reason alone, I'll stay with chevy. Logical or not, it's my $$.



TOXIC

 

[Mini]

Thank you Toxic.....



More people should feel that way....if they did 20 years ago this would be a chevy vs ford debate and Michigan might have a friggin economy!

 

[Marty Klein]

By the way, firm seats in Ford trucks is an extremely well thought safety feature. Ford trucks last a long time; many of the owners grow old together with their truck. Can you imagine a bunch of old guys driving along in seats that felt like their Lay-Z Boy at home? Driving gives way to sleeping gives way to ditch exploring.

 

[Mini]

true dat! I know, and by the way if you live through it like i did....they dont give you a tshirt!

 

[Mike Zechman]

sorry tox I wasn't tryin to stir the pot, just stating my experience thats all, it really doesn't matter to me If I knew someone or not, i buy what I want based on what I see or know, and thats the bottom line for me, as I said b4, I still have the Silverado to look at, so you are sayin if I come back tomorrow and say how much better the Silverado is, then we can all get along?:wacko:

 

[Greg Meyer]

Well... if you don't know it I am a FORD guy... I have a 2001 F150 Supercrew that is still flawless at 160,000 miles... I may die owning this one... But, my travel partner and tourney "confidante" has a brand new 2007 Silverado 2500HD Crew cab Diesel... That, and my very short experience with Tox's "Bow Tie" tell me that I can look around next time and not be worried about getting a bad truck. They are all very, very good. I just think that the new Ford F250HD is the sharpest of them all and with the new (and improved) diesel is the ticket for my first choice right now... But, that can change... I sure wouldn't kick any of them out of my garage... Competition has driven them all to make a superior product.



I know a few walleye guys who are driving Toyotas and are very happy. BTW, Toyota is offering a $1000-2000 contingency to the highest finisher in several circuits. Ted Takasaki has collected $4000.00 this season. Not a bad reward for finishes "way down" from #1!... They are the only truck brand offering contingencies so that does get my attention. You support my passion and I might just support you!

 

[Bill McElroy]

only if you BUY the Chevy!!...BBWWaaahhhaaaa,,,.........naw..Just KIDDIN'!! Buy what you want,...it's YOUR money,...just give us (GM) a fair shake and be sure to check out ALL the options. Trust me,..the '07 Full Size GM Trucks are head and shoulders above the one your driving now.......not even close in comparison. And, when you compare feature for feature, price, warranty, mileage and quality,...i flat out gaurantee you GM will be equal to or BETTER than the imports!! Just do your homework and have fun shopping.

 

[Bill McElroy]

LOL...:lol: Hate to bum you out Brad, but part of my job description is to PROMOTE GM products at every opportunity!! Do you do the same for YOUR company,...or just take a check and go home??

 

[Mike Zechman]

Mac I will give GM the look for sure, my main point of all this is, I was a toyota basher without having looked at them, and now I feel alot different about them, i'l let ya know what I think about the 07 Silverado, i'm very interested in them especially since the dealer has told me on the phone he will do everything to keep me in a Chevy

Brad, no need to fret about all this, if ya love your toyota, then stick with it, and take the punishment from others, cuz I would have to as well if I go that route, but we shall see

 

[Brian Ingersoll]

I will be looking in the near future for a new vehicle and it is between a Tahoe/Yukon, a Suburban, a Sequoia, and an Expedition. I have a personal preference to the GM brands, but will be looking at everything for my family's needs before I plunk my money down.



I will say I'm not a big fan of Ford, even though my company truck is a 2001 F150 with over 208,000 miles and going strong. I just don't like some of the features. I prefer to stay away from the comments about something going wrong or breaking because I feel that happens with all of them, they all build mostly good vehicles with a few bad ones thrown in. The only difference with having to make repairs is the warranty and repair costs out of warranty.

 

[Terry Hutchison]

Figured it wouldn't be too long before somebody got their feelings hurt! Never fails to happen in truck discussions! LOL

I guess I'll never know what it's like to drive anything other than a GM product. I'm a retired GM worker, my Dad is retired GM management, and his father worked for a time at a GM plant. I'll go with what feeds me, thank you. The good news is that the loyalty has apparently been handed down in my family. My daughter's father-in-law is a diehard Toyota guy. My son-in-law needed a new truck and the FIL offered to give him his low miles Toyota truck so he could get a new one. My daughter gave him a choice-Toyota or her. He decided on the new GMC. He didn't really want the Toyota anyway because he had over 200,000 good miles on his Silverado. Hutch

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

yeeooww, man I missed a good one here!



I used to shop around more for trucks and cars, I really did.Since Sue and I have been married we have owned Toyotas Hondas, Chryslers and Chevys.



But, now that I know some folks that work at GM, I will stay GM, as that makes it personal.



Brad does bring up a good....theme...I guess. Any company, car or not, needs to listen to the consumer. If they do not listen to the consumer problems can and will follow as the consumer will move on, fact. Remember the Edsel and some other manufacturers taht are no longer in business? in todays global economy the compaines have to plan and react to upcoming trends and be able to still make a profit......they can no longer rest on their laurels....



Carlos <------ GM guy now!!

 

[Mike Taft2]

In a free market society, I buy what gives me the best value for my money. If it's neck & neck, friends and family working somewhere can sway my decision. But I expect to be impressed with quality and workmanship. When it's all said and done, we have a choice as to what we will buy. I can only look in the mirror if free people are not buying my product, and I have experience in doing so.



I personally want GM to succeed, but I want it to be because they made the right strategy choices to do so. Not because I felt the need to be "patriotic" or "loyal" to keep them in business. When somebody like Mac asks me to give GM a new look, I am perfectly willing to (and am) do so. But it will go on a Ben Franklin list as to whether I will buy or not. In my opinion, it is shifting blame to look at consumer choices "20 years ago" as to why something is doing well or poorly.



They need bigger wheels on the new GM's by the way....



It's been almost a month since we've had this discussion again. Are we getting rusty? :lol:

 

[Steve Rizza]

LOL.. Carlos got alot more out of Brad's post than I did. All I got out of it, was him busting Mac because he takes pride in the company he works for.





Steve

 

[Marty Klein]

What did I miss? Aren't we all getting along? What happened to drive one guy to his last post on this site?



Edsel has always been rated as a quality car ahead of its time. Back then, consumers didn't want ahead of their time. The Edsel did show that at least one auto maker was not in synch with consumers. Now, American auto makers are busting hump to give consumers what they want and the auto makers can't catch a break. We all want cars that run forever, but we don't want to pay for it or the maintenance to make it so. GE and Japanese auto makers basically say "maintenance is mandatory" so we do it and then fawn all over their products. By now, we've learned that if we follow GE and Japanese maintenance habits with our American cars--voila, they last forever.



So, let's all jump on the foreign cars "made for Americans, by Americans" band wagon . We just hired one auto worker in one place and laid one off somewhere else. The big money still goes to Japan and we've now allowed them to circumvent all the downsides to importing.



It gets down to what we all prefer. In most major decisions, we follow a different brain and critical thinking is not involved. We buy this because we like it, we buy that because like it; in reality, if critical thinking were involved we'd all be driving Ford trucks.

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Steve,

I just ignored his BS and tried to pick the good out of what he said???? Marine Corps taught me that!!!!!



Good one Marty!!! Fords!!!!! BBBWWHHAHAHAH



Mike, and to think I missed this same topic last month..I need to get on here more often I guess!!!

 

[Greg Meyer]

Marty said it best... "if critical thinking were involved we'd all be driving Ford trucks."

 

[Bill McElroy]

I think threads like this are good,...there's nothing wrong with a good debate...whether it's concerning boats, cars, trucks, tv's or baits and tackle. Everybody has their own opinions and reasons for buying what they do,...and if it ruffles swomeone elses feather's...so be it!

A good discussion provides knowledge and facts about the subject that someone might not even consider or know about and that might help them make a better decision further down the road. I am passionate about GM vehicles,....they've fed my family for 24 years and it's my goal to retire from that company in another 8-10years. We are designing and building world class vehicles now and it's MY JOB to get the word out!! Sure, we built some crap 20 years ago..and we're paying for it now...but those days are long gone and so are the people who made those decisions..(atleast in GM anyway) It's a whole new global ballgame now...and it's MY JOB to get the real FACTS about our new products out to potential car/truck customers so they can make intelligent, fully informed and educated decisions based on current data,..and hopefully NOT on prejudices derived from bad experience 20 yrs ago. "Perceptual Quality" is our biggest hurdle and based on JD Powers results, sales and customer feedback, we're making progress, but we've still got lot of work to do in that arena!

So,..don't look for me to make a last post and go away,....that's NOT going to happen...I'll continue to support the company that supports me and my family and a million other families whether they're currently still working or retired. Buy what you really want,..I hope it's a GM, but I don't care if it's a Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc..etc.....just do your best to get ALL the facts you can before you make your final decision...you owe that much to yourself !!

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Dang Mac, that is really well said!! Did not know you had it in you!!! HAHHAH



Carlos

 

[TrepMan]

Hey Mac - I got one for ya, in my current Trailer Boats mag they did a quick review of the new Saturn Outback, with the Caddy 3.6ltr V6 at a 4500lb tow rating. Which GM Truck is the Saturn knockoff of? Its not the Trailblazer, is it the Equinox is only a 3500lb front driver, so where did GM get this one? Unfortunetly I know Saturn doesn't have any true "Saturn only" vehicles anymore (the Sky was based/built with the Solstaice, the LS series was from GM's Opel division like the first generation Caddy CTS I think)... The last true "Saturn" was the SL series.



I liked the read out and the review, 7 passenger, 4500tow rating and Saturn service to boot! Of course loaded at $40k i'd buy a new full sized crew cab truck with basic stuff, but looking good!



Now I need someone to buy that NOW, depreciate it over 18 months and sell it to me at a steal next fall!!! LOL

 

[Bill McElroy]

Carlos,...I have my moments,.....



Trep,...I'm not sure what platform the Outback is based on, but I'll find out and let you know...more than likely it's probably from Opel too. GM's vehicle architecture is spreadout over 3 regions,....North America will design and engineer all of the fullsize trucks, SUV's and performance and luxury cars...the midsize cars and crossover vehicles will be designed in Europe and Australia, and the small cars will be designed in Asia.

 

[Marty Klein]

Trep: You are such a vulture! :lol::lol::lol:



Remember this: China has made cyberspace the next battlefield.

 

[Ken Neeley]

I'm gonna buy one of them new Chinese Cherry thingies!!!

 

[Ken Neeley]

re: New respect for Toyota by Brad,6/18/2007 15:11 ET



I suppose this will be the last comment I make on this site. I have a 2007 Tundra and am very satisfied. I wonder if GM would be more productive if Mac was working during the day instead of spending so much time on this site. Also, Mini, if Ford, GM, and Dodge built quality products 20 years ago, Michigan might have a friggin economy.



Good Day to all.



Brad

Goodbye Brad!!!

 

[Greg Meyer]

Did he turn out the light... it's my bedtime roomie...

 

[Teri C.]

It's a Jeep thang....you wouldn't understand.

 

[Terry Hutchison]

The Saturn Outlook shares the Lambda platform with the GMC Acadia and the Buick Enclave. I think this is a fresh design and not based on any other model. Hutch

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

Tailgate assist? What kind of pantywaist can't put up a tailgate without an assist--

BooHooHooHoo...I am not a pantywaist Marty, now you take that back you big doo-do..

By the way, firm seats in Ford trucks is an extremely well thought safety feature. Ford trucks last a long time; many of the owners grow old together with their truck. Can you imagine a bunch of old guys driving along in seats that felt like their Lay-Z Boy at home?

So what? I like growing old with my truck and you leave my lazy boy out of it.



All the time growing up, expect for once, I owned Chevrolet cars. But growing up in the country and listening to all the old timers (probably younger than me) I was informed to buy all of the Chevy cars I wanted but when I wanted a truck the only thing to get was a Ford and I've been an F-150 guy ever since.





Brad, why would you want to cut off your name to spite your face just because someone doesn't like your vehicle? That's a little childish isn't it? Getting personal over who has a better truck? Besides, Because of this site, I've known Mac and Mini for a long time. Except for those two or three arrests, hey NO ONE was convicted, they're pretty nice people. Everyone swore they looked almost eighteen.



Uncle Billy

 

[Marty Klein]

One thing I noticed the other day about my F150 was a grill gap underneath the main grill behind the license plate. I thought, WTH, how did that fall out? One of my backseaters told me there never was a grill piece there and sho nuff [SC talk added to make CJL feel welcome], looking at other F150s, he was right [hate to say that in public]. Last night, I stumbled across a website where one can buy a grill piece to fill that hole. Now tell me, why would Ford have such a design where buying an after market piece would be so profitable?



Last night I started my regimen of three sets, 50 reps per set, putting the tailgate up and down. With that exercise program and firm seats, I'll be one gunned up and wide awake old man.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

TOOOOO MANY GM FANS HERE !

:angry:

Soooooooooooo....BACK OFF!:lol:

 

[TrepMan]

Hey Tee - What 'bout us Kia fans!!



Hey Neeley - When we hit Shanghai next month i'll HAVE To be a GM owner again! 95+% of the minivan market is OWNED by GM/Buick, there is basicaly no other choice. Now...this gets me into an interesting train of thought early in the morning before coffee... GM is the #1 minvan (and LOTS of them, every single Expat family rents/drives one) so you can NOT even buy/see a Cherry China car in Shanghai, wierd!!!

 

[Mini]

Brad,



Sorry you feel that way. Dont let door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!



Mini

 

[Jody Woodruff]

Funny how we get so wound up over a brand of truck and get pissed when someone has a different take. That being said, Fords are clearly the best truck on the market and all the rest suck!!

 

[Carlos Hathcock III]

Hey Woody, tell us how you REALLY feel man!!!

 

[Mark Gross]

I'm late again darn-it.



Dear Brad,

You suck !!



Sincerely,

Mark G.



P.S.

You still suck.:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Bill McElroy]

Woody,..wake up dude,...you're having a bad dream!!:wacko:

 

[Jody Woodruff]

Just kidding Chevy and Dodge guys. I'm a Ford man but if they screw up and give me a reason to change I would. I've had Fords, a Toyota, GMC's and Chevys and they were all good trucks so I don't think you can go wrong with any of them. Buy what you like and enjoy it!