My heart goes out to the Berg's

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Teri C.

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I can't even begin to describe how I feel about this. There are no words for it. I could ask why and never get an answer. I could blame but there are so many directions to point the finger. The thing that really hurts is I know this won't be the last person to lose their life because of this. There is no reason for it but worst than that there is no end to it. All I can do is pray.
 
I have been waiting for this thread to appear. I can't answer coherently because of the deep anger I have over this.

I agree with you Teri and may truly express my feelings when I calm down.



Bill
 
I don't know how but I didn't know about it until today when someone sent me the link to the video. I had no idea what I was in for. May God rest his soul.
 
I have a solution to preventing American civilians losing their lives in the Mid East. Come home. There's plenty to do here that needs doin'.

-----
 
Jim, coming home will only let the terrorist hit us sooner on our own turf then they could if we stayed and finished the job.
 
They are religous fanatics. I'm starting to think the answer is to get Bin Laden. He started all this stuff. Just because we infidels violated a mosque (sp) somewhere a long time ago.

But it all has to happen, I firmly believe that we are living in the "end times". Christ is coming to get his bride soon. If you don't know what I am saying take this thread to a pastor and have him explain it to you.

As an after thought, Nostrodamus predidcted that the world would come to hate the U.S.

I could start talking about Bush (whom I prefer over SKerry) but there are more knowledgable historians on this forum and I'm not for starting a gun fight that I ccan only take a knife to.... :>)
 
JimN,

You are right. There is lots that needs to be done here. But NO on the coming home. You MUST take the battle to the bad guys. That way, WE dictate the terms of the battle, well at least most of them as the battle plan never survioces the line of departure.



More later.



Carlos

 
My gut reaction is the same as JR's. Turn em to ash. That won't solve it. Neither will getting Bin Laden. It is much deeper than that. These are, for the most part, religious fanatics who believe they are following the word of God. A 1 or 2 or ten year war will not change that. It will take generations to change it, if at all. But we can't stop. I don't agree with the administration or the reasons they sent our troops over there, but they are there and I support the troops. We need to help Iraq establish their own government and then pull out.



I graduated high school with Spc Charles Grainer, one of the guys in the photos with the Iraqi prisoners. I would have never thought that of him. He was a good kid. The only person I know that could drink pepsi thru this nose...



My sympathies also go out to the Berg family.



Rich D
 
I have said it before and I will say it again, our enemy is one of a tribal culture driven by religous beliefs. They do not understand or respect diplomacy, they do not abide by the Geneva Convention, they show no mercy, they are NOT like us, they understand and bow to another tribe who is more powerful and brutal established by defeating them in war. If the Mormons or Lutherns were to go over there and kick their arses, they would all become mormons or lutherns. Have we not learned from past "engagements" that places Americans have been held, like the Hanoi Hilton were far worse than anything these animals will be caged in? THEIR treatment is an outrage??? Get real, do you think American POW's are sitting around having wine and cheese get togethers? Personally, I think it commits too much of our valuable resources and personnel to deal with prisoners, if you catch my drift.



TOXIC
 
Remember we are at war... And, they are the enemy... Once you have seen the face of the enemy the reason for this war should not be a mystery...



Nick Berg could have been any one of us, any one of your family or friends... He could have been your brother, sister, husband, wife, son or daughter, And, most important for you to remember... it could have been anywhere... And, for the enemy, for any perceived sleight or past insult or injury...



This has nothing, nothing at all to do with the pictures or treatment of Iraqui prisoners... Our enemies want to kill us all... And, they will continue to do these things as long as they draw breath...



I feel very sorry for Nick Berg's family and friends... But, it just might help for them to understand that he died in war because he was an American... And, that we, all Americans, mourn his death as one of our own.
 
I have been out of the loop for a while and have not been watching the news but by this thred I can tell something has happened over there in those god-forsaken sand dunes. Could you tell me what happened please?







T.S.
 
I would also like to comment on this, my Father was born in Cuba and came to the US over 45 years ago, his conviction to be an American has been tested every day by the fact that he supports HIS governments stand on economic sanctions against the country of his birth and the fact that his Father, Mother, Brothers and all his family are starving to death from the sanctions. (And actually my Father never got to see his own Father again, since he died under communism, the last time he saw him was when he was only 17 years old, he would have been arrested for being a Cuban born American if went to the funeral)



However, his conviction for the US and Democracy is stronger than his personal issues that are a result of those sanctions.



Conviction and Resolve is the point I am trying to make:



In my heart I believe that this young man who lost his life in Iraq was fighting for his convictions, and I am proud to be his fellow American.



I think we all (Americans) need to stand behind our convictions to the bitter end as one nation regardless of race, color, origin or religion. And I think we all need to 100% support our troops and the civilians risking their lives to protect our future. I remember back after 911, all you saw was American flags on every porch and car and overpass. We need to remind the world of our great conviction and united front on preserving our way of life. We cannot forget why are military is fighting this war. I for one witnessed the tragic impacts of NYC on that September and I fully support our governments resolve to remove all future threats to our nation. Yes it
 
Travis,



Nick Berg, an American Civilian in Iraq, was kidnapped by a terrorist cell, then the terrorists made a video of the young man identifying himself before they decapitated him. This video was then posted on an Al Quada affiliated web site. According to the terrorists, it was done as retribution for the mistreatment of Iraqi POWs. In a nutshell.



Rich D
 
There is no rational explanation for what happened to Nick Berg. It simply goes beyond comprehension, in this day and time.



Having said that, it is also most of the problem in a nutshell. For the most part, a great deal of their background, education, religion and upbringing is rooted in 19th Century behavior. Unfortunately, when you take that behavior and thinking (along with a good bit of tribal culture), and mix that with 21st Century technology (both from an information and weapons standpoint), it's a recipie for disaster.



My hope is very straight forward and simple to execute. We turn over sovereignty to the new Iraq goverment on June 30th. They immediately ask us to leave. We oblige them graciously. When the UN factions start hollering that we cannot leave them, we simply indicate that we are obeying the wishes of the approved goverment.



Then, France, Germany, Russia, and the myriad of others that have been throwing rocks at us, can take over.



Tex
 
We cannot retreat from a nest of terrorists. We need to exterminate it. Every wasp has a stinger, every wasp will sting unprovoked, we have shaken the nest, it is now time to wipe it out.



TOXIC
 
Tox,



That's the problem. We will never be able to exterminate it. You kill one cell, another will pop up.



Rich D
 
Being "civilized" does NOT apply. Geneva convention does NOT apply! These people have NO sense of right and wrong. They are a bunch of sick SOB's that deserve nothing less than death. I won't go so low as to be like them and say slow and agonizing death, but just fry them all.

What our GI's did to the Iraqi POW's was wrong....sure. But it was NOTHING...NOTHING compared to how they treat our POW's. And this kid was a civilian, there to HELP!

We have another month before the scheduled pull out date. Just enough time to "police" the nation and whipe the face of the earth completely clean of this vermin!
 
I don't think we will ever rid the world of all terrorists so at what point do we stop risking the lives of Americans. We will always be a target of these sick people. Can we not work on securing the US against them and stop losing the lives of soldiers in Iraq. We can never wipe out all of them, never. I don't think we would give a crap about Iraq if it wasn't for oil.
 
You do not remove terrorists from the world, you remove yourself as a target. You wipe out the nest that threatens you, not every stinging wasp in the world. Make the price too steep. You mess with us, you die, plain and simple. Keep in mind you can NEVER appease them either...we are the essence of what they despise. If you do not kill them, they will kill you, period. There is no choice there. Kill or be killed.



TOXIC
 
The problem is we don't kill them. Yes, maybe in battle but Saddam is still around. Why? Get rid of him. But then does that make us any more humane than them? Thats the dilema we will always be in.
 
Teri, You know I agree with a lot of things you say, but I can't understand your post at all. To do that would be like sticking our head in the sand. They WILL continue to come here and to each embassy and kill innocent people. We HAVE to take the war to them and the whipe out as many as we can. No we cannot get them all, but we CAN send a clear message, "Mess with the USA and you WILL pay dearly." At the very least, maybe we can divert them towards more "civilized" and at ease countries like France and Germany. Let them bomb those people.



And if this was really over oil, then WHY the hell is gas over $2.00 a gallon???? If it was about oil, then we would have taken all their oil, and our prices would be about $0.75 a gallon. So HOW is this only about oil? Exactly HOW much oil have we secured from Iraq???

I'm sorry, but THAT is blatant decomcrat rhetoric at it's finest, and people are believing the nonsense they're being fed. The facts don't support it.
 
Rob, I think you are a bit off in my beliefs. I wouldn't be as straight forward as I am going to be but your last post brought me there.



If it was up to me, I'd get rid of every last one of them. I would try to protect the innocent civilians but I would go in and take out the rest of them. BUT once we did that, I think our troops should come home. Why is it solely our responsibility to rebuild Iraq? We shouldn't take the brunt of their inability to be a civilize nation. It's in everyones best interest to do that.



I stand behind my comment about oil. It is in our best interest to free Iraq because we are so darn dependent on oil. Did we take it while we were in there? Heck no. That would be too much bad exposure for us. Should we have taken it. I would. We are counting on Iraq to become civilized so we don't have to worry about the "bad guys" destroying the pot of gold. Do you really think the only motivation for this war on our part was to free innocent civilians? If that was the case, we would be at war with alot more countries than just Iraq. Do I think it's solely about oil. NO! But I think it's a part of the puzzle.



I blame the oil thing on politics. We don't have to be dependent on oil. The technology is out there to make energy out of many things. We don't do it because the oil industry and all how depend on the money from it would suffer. That's a huge part of our economy and what interest groups do you think pay the politicians to make sure that doesn't happen. You think OPEC has any interest in making sure that doesn't happen? I am guilty of supporting the oil industry. Yes I am. Cars boats etc. But if they made a tow vehicle and a boat that ran off another cheaper man made form of energy, I'd be first in line to get one.



I am a republican by the way. I don't like the way the administration has handled this war. I hope we accomplish what we set out to do and then get out. I am not sure I believe that is being done they way it should be.



Let me end by saying I am not a political expert. I am just airing out what I see based on what little I know. This is always going to be a heated topic so I hope that my thoughts (and thats all that the are) don't offend anyone. They are just thoughts.
 
Killing terrorists only fuels more terrorists...it makes thier "cause" all the more "holy".



You cannot reason with someone who is convinced that he/she/they have "god" on thier side and that they will be rewarded by said god for thier action(s).



While I agree that Berg's death was wrong and a tragedy, it is made more wrong by the media attention surrounding it. The more "outrage" it fuels, the more people are put at risk by the groups that want this kind of attention.



Mr. Berg also must assume some personal responsability... he was a civilian in the wrong place, he was advised to leave and even given the option of transportation. He refused. He was not "ordered" there, he was not "defending anyone" or fighting for any cause (that I know of). In short, he knew the risks and chose to take them. Most likely he would have died (once captured) reguardless of the "abuse" cases... that was just a convenient excuse for the killers, one they hoped would help them get sympathy... the fools.



 
No, Toxic, that is not what I was saying...not at all... Terrorism is a global problem... they do not limit their outrage to "Americans Only"... they attack all nationalitys, even thier own.



We, as a nation and as a world community, have laws and ways to deal with them. We must bring them to justice.



The steps taken in Afghanistan/Pakistan are in the "right direction". The steps in Iraq... atleast some of the more recent ones, appear to be fueling the "terrorist way".



My simple point would be that you can never "defeat" terrorism as many have implied... and that "reasoning" with terrorists will never work.



We must never give in, we must never quit.



But we also must be careful that our actions do not "feed" the terrorist's belief system.



If I were to take the Berg incident at face value, that his death was soley because of the prison abuse, then we, and our Military, would be directly responsible.



We cannot claim the "moral highground" while allowing these types of abuses to happen on "our watch". Justifiable or not, our actions (the ones we know about) are morrally wrong.



We went into Iraq to "stop" this kind of systematic abuse, and then we perpetuate it. This cannot be good.



The comments in the press from Rumsfield over the past 2 days cause me to take a step back and question our methods.



And face it, in Iraq, we are the "invaders", the "infidels"... wether our cause is right or wrong is irrelevant to many... the Iraquis look to their "religous" leaders for Guidance... and this is where we are. You cannot impose a "separation of church and state" on a culture that sees "church equals state". You cannot impose a democracy onto a culture that is not ready for it.



I have no idea what the "solution" would be... I just hope that our children's children aren't still dealing with it.
 
Teri,

I agree, it shouldn't be our sole responsibility to rebuild Iraq, but that comes from the pressure of the left to be a "civilized" nation and undo the "wrongs" we've done there. If just left, then the left would have a field day with the warmongering right, and the european nations would view us all that way. (Not that I give a $#!+ what europe thinks).



And on being oil dependant, you're 100% correct. The technology keeps getting stifled by government that would take the average SUV and give it the mileage of a Honda. Why.....TAXES. They make entirely too much off of taxes to loose that revenue. And WHO is the biggest proponent of taxes, increasing taxes, using tax money, and bleeding those of us who work for it dry???? The left.

As far as oil, your comment about we wouldn't even be there if it weren't for oil is what led me to that post. It wasn't oil that brought us there. Did it play a roll, sure. But we haven't benefitted one bit from their oil. And personally, I too think we should have drained their supply dry to pay for all the crap they've done to us and to offset the cost of the war. Then use that as a hint to OPEC that we will not be "terrorized" by gas price gouging either!

 
Here are my questions with the kill em all line of thinking



1. How do we know when we have killed all the terrorists?



2. If we manage to destroy 99.9% of the one faction that killed US citizens, won't that .1% start or join other factions to kill more US citizens as retribution? Or if we destroy 100%, won't the other factions want revenge?



3. If we do and pull out and they point their aggressions elsewhere, won't those nations eventually turn against the US as well? Then what?



4. Last, I am sorry to say, it is easier to kill an American or attack an American interest, then to find and wipe out a small band of terrorists, simply because our people and interests are so many. If a person is wants to blow up a 55 gallon drum of methyl-ethyl deadly, sacrificing himself in the process of killing others, chances are he will be successful.



There will be no easy answer or solution. We will be there long past June 30.



Rich D
 
I think I also see what I said that made you ask that...



I said:



Killing terrorists only fuels more terrorists...it makes thier "cause" all the more "holy".



Let me expand upon that...



They must be brought to Justice... they must be shown that thier methods will not give them the results they intend.



But we also must realize that all of that, and "killing those that we can find" will never <i>stop</i> them. Why? Because "Law" and "Reason" will never stop the criminal and the unreasonable.



But you must also realize, that the terrorists are (generally and a very wide brush here) are fighting for what they "believe in".



This is a GLOBAL problem that America (mostly) ignored until 9/11.



It will take a GLOBAL solution, and even then there will still be acts of terrorism and violence.
 
Well Rob and Teri....this is a little off the subject but I was reading an article the yesterday that said by this summer Chevy full size trucks will offer a Hy-brid motor...and Ford and Dodge will be following suit. So will Teri be in line at the Chevy dealer this summer, only time will tell?
 
Rich,

OK so WHAT DO WE DO??? Sit idly by while they kill MORE American on OUR SHORES and just chalk it up to "That's the way it is?" Let them turn on us, we will SMITE them as well!!!



Sim, you're right, but the rest of the world has taken Rich's approach and is NOT helping.....so AGAIN......

WHAT DO WE DO???? Everyone wants to criticize the currenty actions being taken by our president, and yet NOBODY has offered a viable alternative.

So for those that have nothing better to offer, than I say, don't criticize those who have gotten off their areses and DONE something.



JimBob, unless they price it more than my house....I will save every dime until I can get one. If they have the tow capacity and HP of a full size truck but get over 20 mpg....I WILL have one!
 
Rob,



I don't know what to do. I said before, even though I know it is wrong, my gut reaction is to drop enough nukes to turn them all into ash.



If I had a viable solution to this, you can be sure, I wouldn't be sitting where I am speculating on the internet.



Rich D



 
I think Iraq would be a good place for a nice big bass lake.
 
Rob...



Spain got a wake up call, as have the french...



They chose not to help us in IRAQ... not against "terrorism"... there is a difference. It might be hard to see, but there is a difference.



Right now many of the Terrorists are using IRAQ due to the large number of americans that are there.



I dont beleive that Rich, or myself, or anyone for that matter, is saying "sit and wait"... What we are saying is that you will not "defeat it" with any particular action... it just isn't possible.



What do we do? We keep up the "right fight" and we realize the limits of what we can control. Lest we become that which we despise the most.



The only actions I am currently "critisizing" are those in the Iraqui (and elsewhere, apparently) prisons when it comes to the humane treatement of prisoners. It is this type of "action" that will certianly fuel the claims of our enemies.



You cannot expect your enemy to abide by rules you do not. (And I know the terrorists don't, but that is not the "moral highground" we want to claim, now is it?)



It will be a long while before our overall actions in Iraq have the benefit of hindsite for analysis.

 
I agree we will not wipe them out, Rich you are defeated before you even get started if you think we cannot stop terrorism. It can be stopped and it will not be by diplomats, politicians or preachers....it will be the military, not because that is the best way or the most civilised way but because it is the only thing terrorists understand, war is in their core beliefs, it is the way they negotiate, war is war and you have a winner and a loser..period. What are you going to do if one of these "cells" gets ahold of a nuke? Hand them the country? If we as a nation are going to stand against terrorism (yes Simmy, as we define it), we will take terroristic hits now and then. It is the price you pay for freedom. You have to make the price the terrorists pay for commiting such acts grossly out of line with the benefits. I agree we need to address the issues also and remove the poverty that breeds the future terrorist, revitalize the economy and the people to be self governing yada, yada, but for now we need to eliminate those that committed a heinous terroristic act on the United States and at the same time convince them that it is better to meet Allah in France or Germany than in the US. I have been struggleing to determine why the US had been spared terrorist activity on a grand scale for so long since our politics never radiclly changed, meaning we didn't give them any new reasons to hate us.



TOXIC
 
Tox,



My intent was not clear. I meant we will never be able to quickly exterminate terrorism. You kill one cell another will pop up. The only way to resolve it is through time, the core beliefs of terrosts have to change. True, military action will most likely be the catalyst to change it, but it will take a long, most likely bloody occupation in which more innocent lives will be lost.



I strongly disagree with your statement of convincing them to meet Allah in Germany or France. We would make more enemies and yes we are a super power, but we cannot stand alone against the world.



Just because you win a war, does not mean that you change the thoughts of those that started the war. Slavery and bigotry did not end with the civil war, we still have illegal aliens in sweatshops, the klan still exists. There are still people that believe Hitler had the right idea.



Rich D
 
Well, he was right on one thing, he should have stomped out France! LOL
 
Well, if we didn't have the French, who would we make fun of! LOL!
 
Oh, there's NO shortage of people to make fun of around HERE!

Plus we can always make fun of the Canadians, eh Pierre? LOL I'd better not say that too loudly, half my family, half the people in P'burgh, and my boss are all Canadian! LOL
 
Rich, I agree but the new ones that pop up will think twice if there is no benefit to striking the US or US interests. Let's face it, deterrance is the thread that holds this world together. We have pushed the envelope with the old USSR and the Bay of Pigs, some would say North Korea and a few others. At home we have the local police who insure everybody plays nice and remove the ones who don't or, are a menace to society and on a global scale. It is our military (along with many other intelligence branches) that protect and police the global population, hopefully in harmony with other governments. Terrorists need to be dealt with the same as Hitler to use your analogy.......dismantle or dismember, their choice. Why am I so adimant that our way is the right way? Because we are the United States of America, one nation, under God, indivisable, with liberty and justice for all. Show me another country with the same concern and value of it's people.



TOXIC
 
You can not defeat them... But, you can deter them, isolate them, keep them on the run, and slowly dwindle them down to insignificant numbers... And, eventually, they will cease to exist as as big of a danger... All the while, we work on the generations to come...



This is principally the fault of pre/post cold war American foreign policy... We, correctly dealt in two dimensional policies... This allowed despotic governments to stay in powewr while we ignored their "anti-American rhetoric at home"... The Arab Street... a conveniently manipulated "catch-all"... in reality a very complex amalgam of "groups"... Palestinians, etc... who were focused on anti-Israeli rhetoric while they were deprived of basic liberties by their own governments...



Our past is here to haunt us... And, all over the middle east we have a bad "rap" created by our friends... One earned by EVERY administration from Roosevelt to Clinton... We are now trying to change the flow of a vast tide of hatred... It will not change quickly...
 
You can not defeat them... But, you can deter them, isolate them, keep them on the run, and slowly dwindle them down to insignificant numbers... And, eventually, they will cease to exist as as big of a danger... All the while, we work on the generations to come...



This is principally the fault of pre/post cold war American foreign policy... We, correctly dealt in two dimensional policies... This allowed despotic governments to stay in powewr while we ignored their "anti-American rhetoric at home"... The Arab Street... a conveniently manipulated "catch-all"... in reality a very complex amalgam of "groups"... Palestinians, etc... who were focused on anti-Israeli rhetoric while they were deprived of basic liberties by their own governments...



Our past is here to haunt us... And, all over the middle east we have a bad "rap" created by our friends... One earned by EVERY administration from Roosevelt to Clinton... We are now trying to change the flow of a vast tide of hatred... It will not change quickly...
 
LOL @ Teri... But I wouldn't want to fish a place that glows in the dark and is surrounded by glass...AND, after seeing that video of the "beheading" that's what that place would have looked like if I had my way. For those of you that didn't see the video but only heard of it, this wasn't a "Marie Antoinette" beheading. Mr. Berg's head was SAWED off while he was held down and screaming. It took at least five strokes until he was (probably) dead and another two or three strokes to remove the head which they then proudly held up, eyes still open. I'm getting extremely angry again just writing this this little bit.

I had about another six trillion paragraphs to add to this but didn't want the responses asking, "what about the innocents", "we shouldn't even be there", "nothing we do is going to help or work", It's not worth one American life", etc. etc. etc...

Well, we are there and it has to get done. I find it very interesting that the "frat like" hijinx of the Military Police in that prison has been on every newspaper front page and TV news station for a week accompanied by political outcry's. You don't see that about Mr. Bergs' death and politicians like Ted Kennedy and his ilk is deafening with its silence.



Sorry to rant..



Bill



 
Tox,



Where we disagree is that I don't think they will think twice about trying something. Look at post 9-11. We bombed the #$%# out of Al Quaida. Bombed the cave, bombed the mountains, hunted, captured and killed all we could. There are still terrorist attacks. I agree they need dismantled, I just think it will take generations.



Rich D
 
Why are the three most powerful men in the US named Bush, Dick, and Colon?
 
Shocker isn't it!! And they live so close together!!LOL



Rich....where are those attacks? Not here. And look at Saddam. Not murdering children, rapeing women, or promoting terrorism any more is he? The world is a better place. Every American involved in this conflict knows the sacrifice. None more than the military. It's only a matter of time before Bin Laden in in the cell right next to Saddam and Bubba has the key to both.



I respect your opinion and wish there was an easier way, but there isn't and it comes at a high price.



TOXIC
 
Tox,



As I respect your opinion as well. I agree the price will be high. When I say generations, I mean generations of military actions. I am talking of the 100 year war. I don't think we should have gone after Saddam until we finished with Al Quaida and killed or captured Bin Laden. I just think that the childrens children of today's soldiers will still be there fighting the same fight. That is the sacrifice this country will have to accept if we want to stamp out terrorists. Nothing less will do it.



Rich D
 
Toxic,



You are very correct in that terrorists only know force and death...It will take overt military action in the majority of cases to stamp out the known "cells"...but we cannot be "alone" in the world and expect true success.



It is the unknown "ones" that I worry about... It is any "justification" that we might inadvertantly give these extremists that I caution against.



Toxic, to the extremists that we speak of, there is no cost "too high" in thier view... so the more we do, the more they are justified...this is my point. I am not saying we do nothing... no, indeed, we must "stay the course" we must "root them out" and imprison (preffered, and humane) or kill them (not as preffered, creates martyrs) outright.



It is a long road ahead...



<font color=red><b><i>

Tho' much is taken, much abides; and tho'<br>

We are not now that strength which in the old days<br>

Moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are;<br>

One equal-temper of heroic hearts,<br>

Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will<br>

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

</i></b></font>





 
Rich,

You think we have not been at war for 100 years already? You just need to change the name of the "current" war. We have been fighting for eons. Not just us, but all of mankind, right? So, the "100 year war" just has a new face until there is a lull, and it gets renamed.



A part of me wants this thing to end now. But, I realize that there is lots at stake in the fight for our Country, our way of life and our society. It we fail here, it will show that we are weak, ineffectual and not able to followup on something we have started.



Tox was right. They only understand who is the more powerful one in the fight. If we back out now, weather or not Iraq survives in its current form, we would have lost the battle. Being the "big guy" on the block automatically puts a nice target for the "smaller guy" to shoot at. Our societal memory is very short along with our patience. it is the American way to get in and then get out. Nothing protracted, thank-you. Some are able to have long range thinking, but that is then over shadowed by the here and now.



We must stay the fight.



I feel for Mr. Berg and the others to follow. I can onlyt hope that the civilians that go there to help, will also stay the course. It is their conviction that we are doing the right thing to help there that will help us in the long run exit there and leave behind something that resembles a free country.



Sorry if I have rambled and jumped around. I think that I need a writing class.



Carlos

 
Agreed. We will get Bin Laden unfortunately it will not be alive. That is a prediction on my part. I'm sure he will resist and some lucky marine will get to end the controversy. Heck he might already be dead, for crying out loud people are still seeing Elvis and I'm pretty sure he died. LOL!!



TOXIC
 
and personally, I don't care "where" they strike, be it on American soil or France's... Terrorism and it's tactics are wrong... killing innocent civilians for a "cause" is wrong... and it must be stopped.
 
Carlos,



No, I know we have been at war, with pauses in between. I think it will take a war with no pauses. A sustained effort for as long as it takes. To me, the only other option, which I do not agree with or think would work, is to pull out and stay out.



My whole point is that stamping out one or two terrorist cells will not stop the others. We have to stop them all, completely and we have to stay ther until it is done. Period. Nothing else will work.



Rich D
 
We are not and cannot be "self sufficient" we rely on others as much as they rely on us. We are in a global economy and that will never change.



TOXIC
 
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