GM break down of what we the taxpayer own

[Michael Meier]

The U.S. government owns 60.8 percent of the new company, while a United Auto Workers

 

[Marty Klein]

I guess this is mildly amusing, but how does that COA help? It would seem to me that if you wanted to protect "your" 60.8% investment you would purchase one of the fine automobiles made by your own company.

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Where's my popcorn emoticon?:blink:

 

[Jim B]

 

[Mini]

levelfieldinstitute.org

 

[Bill McElroy]

no comment..

 

[mike chip]

mike,

i also own a jetta tdi. it is the best car on the market. i average 52 mpg in the summer and 58 to 60 in the winter. best 20 k i ever spent, 165k later the only maint was a timing belt and water pump for a total of 400 bucks.



mike c





and the new 09 jetta was just awarded the cleanest car in america (emisions). it had 38% cleaner emmisions than the 2nd place toyota prius. the tdi jetta now holds 9 world fuel economy records.



and early testing on the tdi hybrid are in the 100 to 120 mpg range

 

[Michael Meier]

I guess this is mildly amusing, but how does that COA help? It would seem to me that if you wanted to protect "your" 60.8% investment you would purchase one of the fine automobiles made by your own company.

That 60.8% involentary investment will never see a return. We all know that.



The TDI is great. 1st trip to Virginia Beach and we got 48 MPG and would have been better but I had to try the speedo up to 120 a couple times to see if it would do it. Lots of room on the inside and even at 6' I could get in the trunk. Should have done this awhile ago. Now we have 3 diesels at my house!

 

[Bill McElroy]

You are SOOOO wrong...but carry on..you're rationale and logic is amussing! You willing to make a MAJOR bet that GM pays back 100% of that money BEFORE the due date in 2015??



As far as your wish for more diesels in the future...don't count on it..here's why!!





Full question: Are there any future plans to build diesel engines for the light trucks and cars as a part of the overall strategy to meet the government's new MPG standards?



Answer: We are not currently planning a diesel engine for a light truck or small car application in the U.S. The product summaries GM submitted to the US Treasury as part of the Viability Plan on April 27 (Viability Plan 4) are on target with the goals of the new national MPG standard covering Model Years 2012 - 2016; ultimately reaching the President's goal by 2016.



Bob Lutz addressed this question in his FastLane web chat on Monday, July 13 saying: "For diesels to meet U.S. emissions (U.S. regulations are six times more severe than European), we'd have to increase the diesel surcharge by another $2500 to $3000. The total would amount to about $6000. For that surcharge of $6K, the customer gets a 20% improvement in mpg, but has the privilege of paying for fuel that is 20 cents per gallon more expensive. Show me where this makes sense. Several Europeans and both Toyota and Honda have canceled their U.S. passenger car diesel plans, as have we."

 

[Mini]

no one thought the finacials would pay back their bailouts....alot of them already have.

 

[mike chip]

FUNNY!

just look at there track record of late, and of course they dont wont to be apart of the diesel wave thats swelling in america, that would mean they might do something right.



gm needs to face the facts. almost all manufactures are building or planning to bring diesels to america, toyota and ford and bmw will have theres hear this year and the others in the next few years.



why would gm build a car thats makes cents or $$$...diesels have good economy, less moving parts to break, cleaner emmisions, lasts longer, fuel is easier to make.

nah, lets claim bancrupcy and start over on the taxpaers dime

and i was a big gm supporter I currently have 3 gms in the garage. one volkswagon- one toyota and a ford exploder with 336k.

mike c

 

[Michael Meier]

Interesting responses. I like it...

Let
http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/bailouttracker/

 

[Bill McElroy]

Okay...if hybrids and deisels are so freakin popular,.......WHY are they not selling?? There's millions of them on the lots...why aren't they selling??..My guess?? Nobody with any cahonies's wants that crap. (except they are popular among the tree huggers, liberals, chicks and California freaks...LOL) American's still want power and performance over "economy" despite the Messiah's best efforts to tell us otherwise. I'll put my $$$ on Lutz's proven track record and 50+ years of experience for knowing what will sell when things get better and people are back working.....and I will still put my $$$ on POWER/PERFORMANCE & STYLING over "mileage and emissions". The Volt will blow away the TDI too....it'll burn rubber and use ZERO gas...but it'll be a very "regional" car...popular in the south and west and retirement communities in Timbuktu!! It won't sell in large numbers in the north where we need 4WD and room to put dead deer!



and BTW,..Lutz may be 77 (Who cares anyway??!!)...but when you're his age,...will you STILL be in high demand in your profession?? Will you be flying your own fighter jets and helicopters, riding crotch rockets, smoking fine cigars and collecting high performance cars,...all while gathering the largest crowds and hottest babes everywhere you go?? I seriously doubt it! As for his 6.9 million?? Bummer...he must've had a bad year too,..He probably paid 1/2 of that in taxes and he did sell one of his other fighter jets! (yeah...that 77 yr old stud had 2 fighters!! How cool is THAT?! And his 70 yr old wife flies her OWN helicopter!!) Envy is an ugly emotion......deal with it!!



I'm out,..but before I go...I'll second Marty's comment...if you're worried about your return on your tax payer's investment..then buy from and support the AMERICAN company's who you're so generously helping! Your opinions will carry more credibility if you practice what you preach!!



Adios

 

[Michael Meier]

Nobody with any cahonies's wants that crap. :huh:



The Volt will blow away the TDI too.:huh:



American's still want power and performance over "economy" :huh:



Envy is an ugly emotion......deal with it!!:huh:



This started off well, facts were presented, and then it appears Mr. Jones arrived and took some of us to the island of GM for some kool-aide?



Doesn't appear to be any more factual aspects occuring with this thread so I'll just leave this alone.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Good idea,...I figured you were just stirring up chit anyway,...no real purpose to your original post other than to slam GM....but that's typical...everyone's doing it! It must be cool or something!!



Have a good weekend...oh and if you wanna apply for Lutz's job or to be Obama's "Car Czar"...now's your chance to finally fix the industry.....nobody else can seem to do it!:huh: Feel free to use me as a reference!!:wub:



Enjoy the weekend!

 

[Michael Meier]

It's not just GM. All the handouts that were given thru TARP are in question.

Thanks for the job offer! I only have 28 months to get my retirement from this one so I better wait.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Yep,...I'll stand by my opinion mentioned earlier (and I'm not alone),....American's STILL want power and performance over "economy"





What We Say We Want, Not What We Really Want

The Washington Post

By Warren Brown

July 20, 2009





It can fit into the tiniest of legal parking spots -- and do so with minimum maneuvering.



It gets 29 miles per gallon in the city and 36 miles per gallon on the highway using regular unleaded gasoline. But its 1.5-liter, 106-horsepower four-cylinder engine can pull it out of trouble when it needs to get going.



With rear seats lowered in the three-door hatchback version driven for this column, it has space enough to carry a camper and her stuff to a summer of fun (we hope) in the Catskill Mountains.



And with 10 iterations base-priced from $12,205 to $14,825, it is well within the affordability range of most Washington Post consumers -- those of you who take The Post in print, or via Internet and televised reports.



Yet, for all of its many virtues, the little Toyota Yaris is selling poorly in this country, where its retail numbers are down 40.4 percent in the first six months of 2009.



This is puzzling. Were the Yaris a piece of motorized junk, I could understand its dismal sales performance. But it's built with legendary Toyota quality and reliability. True, it is challenged by many worthy contenders -- the Honda Civic, Honda Fit, Hyundai Accent, Nissan Versa and Chevrolet Aveo, among them. But those gas-pump teetotalers also are struggling in the marketplace.



I am all the more confused because so many of you write, call or send e-mails complaining when I review a truck, sports car or luxury automobile. You say that such automotive reviews are meaningless and bordering on consumer insult in our deepest economic downturn in decades. You urge me to review more practical, affordable vehicles. I have and will continue to do so.



But here is what for many of you will be a hard-to-swallow truth: Fuel-sippers such as the Yaris are selling in numbers well below those of the Ford F-series and Chevrolet Silverado pickup trucks. Witness the Automotive News Data Center top-10 rankings for the first six months of 2009:



Ford's F-Series trucks hold the top with sales of 179,632. The Toyota mid-size family sedan comes in second, with 150,242; and the Chevrolet Silverado pickup -- in a year when GM, its parent company, entered and exited bankruptcy -- is a close third, with sales of 149,949.



Semi-fuel-misers making the Automotive News Data Center's Top 10 list for the first six months of 2009 include the Toyota Corolla and Toyota Matrix wagon -- the latter built on the Corolla platform -- which collectively hold fifth place with sales of 121,643. Sixth place is held by the venerable Honda Civic, with sales of 118,459.



But for genuine fuel misers, including the hyperbolically touted gas-electric Toyota Prius hybrid -- with sales of 55,751 for the first half of 2009 compared with 91,440 in the corresponding 2008 period, an era of $4 gas in the United States -- it's been an awful retail season.



In a strained attempt to divine the generally miserable retail performance of the fuel-sipping class, I drove the 2009 Toyota Yaris S, a front-wheel-drive subcompact with a five-speed manual transmission that does its best work in city traffic.



Could it be that small cars elevate consumer concerns about safety? It's possible. In vehicle-to-vehicle crashes, larger vehicles usually win, according to data collected by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety. But the Yaris is reasonably adept at avoiding crashes. And it has reasonable crash protection for a subcompact automobile. It offers side and head air bags and four-wheel antilock brakes as standard equipment.



I would have preferred a Yaris with four-wheel disc brakes instead of the less-effective front-disc, rear-drum brake package offered on the test car. But front-disc, rear-drum arrangements are employed by many automobile manufacturers, including Honda on its Fit subcompact, to cut costs on price-sensitive economy models. And although they don't perform as well as four-wheel discs, the combination of front discs and rear drums has proved safe over decades of use.



But I believe brakes have little to do with the less-than-stellar sales performance of fuel-efficient cars in this country. The same goes for speculation about the effects of our dour national economy.



Instead, the problem is us. We want cars such as the Yaris and Fit when gasoline prices are high, or when gasoline is short supply. But when gasoline is flowing at prices that make us smile, which it usually does in the United States, we'd much rather have a Chevrolet Camaro SS with a 6.2-liter, 426-horsepower V-8 engine. Strange as it might seem in these hard times, Chevrolet isn't having any trouble selling that one.







Carry on,!!

 

[Bill McElroy]

Interesting Read---Nobody saw THIS coming!! Or did they??:huh:



Toyota Says It's No Longer Profitable in North America

Detroit News

By David Shepardson

July 21, 2009





Toyota's top executive in the United States said Monday the company was reviewing its entire operation here, including whether to close a factory in California and when to open a factory in Mississippi.



In an hour-long interview with reporters at Toyota's Washington office, Yoshimi Inaba said Toyota is not profitable in North America despite cost cutting in the organization, but he said he hopes the company could be profitable in its next fiscal year in North America. Inaba, who is president and chief operating officer of Toyota Motor America and chairman and CEO of Toyota Motor Sales USA, is taking up his responsibilities at a crucial time for the Japanese automaker.



Toyota's sales have fallen 38 percent in the first six months of the year -- to 770,000 cars and trucks from nearly 1.25 million vehicles in the first six months of 2008. U.S. industry auto sales fell 35 percent in the first half of the year.



Among the issues the company is considering in its re-evaluation process is whether to keep open the 25-year-old New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. assembly plant in Fremont, Calif. The plant, which employs 4,700 people, is a joint venture formed with General Motors, but the Detroit automaker recently withdrew from the pact during its stay in bankruptcy court.



"That put us in a very difficult position," Inaba said. "We are carefully evaluating all the options."

He didn't commit to a timetable for a decision on Nummi, but said a decision would be made "quite soon." He said Toyota hadn't received an incentive package from California yet.



The hourly workers at Nummi are represented by the United Auto Workers, and the contract expires next month. Inaba said the UAW contract "is one consideration, but not the single deciding factor."



Inaba noted that California is Toyota's single biggest market in the United States, and closing the factory would negatively impact its image there.



The company also is contemplating what to do with its Mississippi plant. Toyota has completed the structure, but not moved equipment into it or given a date it might open because of the sharp decline in auto sales. It was scheduled to open next year. Toyota has said it may build the Prius in Mississippi, but Inaba said those plans are unclear.



Asked whether Toyota could shelve its Mississippi plant permanently, Inaba said, "I hope not," and added, "I'm not that pessimistic" about its future.



"Toyota is certainly at a crossroads with respect to capacity," said Michael Robinet, vice president of global forecast at CSM Worldwide. "Virtually every manufacturer is stepping back and looking at their capacity."



Inaba refused to rule out layoffs or plant closures at its other North American plants.



Inaba said the company had made mistakes in making too many decisions in Japan, urging more "decentralization" of decision-making.



Because of Toyota's success for the last eight years, there was an attitude among some executives that, "OK, now we have been so successful, we understand the market, so can make a decision there rather than here," Inaba said.



Inaba said the company is listening to the market, and customers "had been a little bit lost."



When asked whether Toyota had become complacent, he said, "Complacent or arrogant -- a lot of people use that -- I don't know," he said, adding that the company had tried to guard against those qualities.



Inaba acknowledged that Toyota vehicles had often lacked "passion" and that the company's vehicles must be "more exciting, more nimble."



"Toyota is a good car but not exciting. Those are the comments we usually (or) always get," Inaba said.



Inaba said he supported the decision of the U.S. government to rescue General Motors Co. and Chrysler Group LLC with $65 billion in loans. "Stepping into Chrysler and GM was a necessary step for the government, for the country," Inaba said.



But he said he hoped the U.S. government would have a "free-market level ground in mind in deciding what to do next."



He also said GM and Chrysler were right to shrink their dealer networks. Toyota, he said, has no plans to expand its dealer network in the U.S.