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Mark Hofman

Mark Hofman

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<b><i><u><font color="#000080" size="7">TIN RULES!</font></u></i></b>
 
Mike, yes, but it doesn't spill so easily inside a can!
 
<b><i><u><font size="12">Aluminum!</font></u></i></b></p>



<p><font size="3">Its mother nature's good friend.</font>
 
anyone who owns one can spell it perfectly!its the fibr fibregl oh plastic boats that cant spell it!



ih and the tin can stands up better in the bottom of the boat better than glass does!i guess thats why those plastic boats have all those cup holders in them!!
 
Oh, I have no problem spelling aluminuminum. What's the problem?
 
I'll save my comments about glass for if and when things get ugly.
 
Mike, Tox, recognize it for what it is. He's typing so BIG to "compensate" for his small.......boat! Like the guys that have to get a F350 super duty with turbo diesel to pull a tin boat or drive thru suberbia to work in a posh office. Compensating.......that's all! They guys that have it, don't have to flaunt it. We know glass is better. Let them have their pathetic little dillusions. LOL

Ding Ding Ding

And in dis corna, we have weighing in at 1825 lbs.....the reigning champion, the fighter jet of boats, the basslayer.......FIBERGLASS



And da opponent weighing in at a measely 1200 lbs......the tin weight, the over rated floating anchors of the world.......aluminum



Fight fair, no hits below the belt, make it a good fight......and fiber, take it easy on 'em!



LETS GET IT ON!
 
all i have to say is "Bite my Nitro!"-- IF you can catch it!
 
Glass - (It for the folks who need to ask, "Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the fairest of them all?")
 
We don't need to ask "who is the fairyiest of them all?" We know.....it's tin guys! LOL Too easy! Come on, where's Rich, he at least puts up a little tussle and can actually make me get up off the couch to kick his a%%! LOL You guys make us look goooooood!
 
Well you have fun thinking of ways to rebutt tonight Mo, I'm out of here until morning, so this ought to give you ample time to call in reinforcements. I just need 2 or 3 good glass men since Tox is out smelling up his 929. Jason you there? Mike? Hey lets make it real fun bring along a couple other friends, let's really get 'em good this time. I'm bored! LOL This is like some lost episode of the outsiders......"ponyboy, you there?"
 
Glass is fast. Yes, but why do we NEED to go that fast?



"Are bass particularly FAST fish?"



Tim Allen posed this question in his book "Don't Stand Too Close to a Naked Man"



This isn't a matter of pride or appearance, actually. It's a matter of economics - and logic. Put a new glass and a new tin boat side by side, then drive them both hard until they are broken and worn out. That glass boat goes where? A junkyard? The tin boat will still be worth $0.27 per hull pound even if it has holes in it, is broken, warped, cracked and unfishable. It can easily be recycled into thousands of other items - including a new aluminum boat.



Like Greg says, "A gunfight is fun only when the other guy has a loaded weapon." Watch out, Robby. I'm just getting warmed up.
 
Hey MO - MY first boat was a 12ft TIN semi V. Paid $50 cash from a guy at the office in TX. Used it for 2 years till (and it was over 30 years old) I ran it thru a few miles of 4-5foot rollers comming in from a storm and the keel cracked about 6 inches long. Took it to an aluminium scrap yard and got $100 for it!!! So ,2 years and I made 100% PROFIT!!!



Glass is for guys with big fat umm,hmm,nnn tushies!!!



Tin THE only material to make Airplaines and real BOATS!!!
 
you can recycle a fiber boat into a big planter in your front yard.why waste landfill space?



a tin boat can be made into more tin boats.that is recycling to the 3rd degree!



and besides,never seen a tin transom get watersoaked through the core!



and beaching a tin boat will not bust the gelcoat and cause the fiberglass cloth to wick water into it,and cause major problems.why do you see them covering there boats so soon after putting them on the trailers?



can anyone say bayliner? yea,i knew that you could!!



enuf said?



 


<font size="1">[DISCLAIMER]



Please keep in mind, before any of this gets out of hand, that all this is just in jest. If you are joining this discussion board for the first time, please do not take any of these jabs seriously. This is a periodic "discussion" we have to keep our minds sharp over the long, cold winter season. Personal attacks are not tolerated, nor will obscene language be acceptable. References to specific parts of people's anatomy will be taken with a grain of salt - once. Repeated references to specific parts of a person's anatomy will be taken as an indication of surrender, since the respondent must not be able to come up with a substantive comment specific to boats rather than boat owners. Derrogatory references to mothers, fathers, or spouses will not be tolerated



Any type of boat that puts you over or near fish, and which helps you enjoy a relaxing day on the water, is a great boat. Any brand of boat that meets your needs is a great boat



Fiberglass boats meet the needs of some fishermen. Aluminum boats meet the needs of other fishermen. Submarines meet the needs of the U.S. Navy.



Complaints regarding this discussion may be addressed to:



Dowie, Cheatum and Howe

Attorneys-At-Law

I12BA Tracker Owner

Ornitro Owner USA </font>





 
Hey MO: Could you write a little bigger I am not sure the Nitro boys can see it with out the Glasses....BF

P.S Glass boats are just really larger TUPPERWARE containers anyway..
 
GREAT stuff MO and Bruce!!!!



There once was a man with a glass boat,

He tried to run rivers and stump fields,

His boat got a dent,

fixing it took till lent,

And he cried at all the pictures from Tin boats of HUGE FISH he was sent!!!
 
we here in Pa well,my area,and lake ontario call those glass boats riccochet rabbits.they ping-ping off the stumps at 60,then dropp there trolling motors down and fish the stumps for the pieces they left behind!!



tin is in!
 
Now what do you call my Avalanche. Everyone I talk to thinks it's glass. But those of us in the know , no better. I'll take on any glass boat that cares to challenge my tin boat. Let the combat begin. It's going to be a long winter.
 
Bruce, that's why they call it 'fine print'. Glasses....GREAT play on the theme!
 
Oh boys and girls...where else can friends (and I do mean that seriously) go and have this much fun for about a nickel...



Rob, it's not your fault...your first rattle was probably plastic and that ruined you for life...real men get tin rattles and grow up wearing iron underwear with keels and transoms...It's what we have to have...you have to have plastic to suck on...We know, you want to wear eyelinber and lipstick and can't so you compensate with sparkly boats...its just poor upbringing...Where I come from every third house has a "tin" flatboat parked somewhere... Fiberglass was for waterskiing not fishing and hunting...LOL
 
Remember, everyone, this is about boats...not boat owners.



Dowie, Cheatum & Howe

Attorneys-at-Law
 
Hey Mo, with regards to your disclaimer.....YO MAMA! LOL See NOW we're getting somewhere. Let's see, Bruce, Trep, Magna, Greg, Mo, Bassin, VS me Mike and Sim. 2 to 1, nope still not fair, go get about 4 or 5 more and then we can play, it's still too lopsided in favor of glass! LOL I refuse to do battle with an army of ants! LOL This is gonna be SOOOO much fun! hehehehehe
 
Alright fella's....I'm sitting here among hundreds of boats, glass, plastic, tin...I love 'em all!!!!!
 
You're not naked again, rolling around in the plastics bin again, with centerfold shots of Tundras again are you Neeley? It would be bad for the campaign.
 
Things get busy at work and I miss all the fun!



I will do some serious posting this weekend. I just hope my arm doesn't get to hand doesn't get to sore from b!$#@ slapping Rob around!



Rich D

 
My momma is a wonderful woman.



(BTW - Both she and my father fish out of an ALUMINUM boat!!!!)



So, is that the BEST you can do - insult my heritage?



Economics was reason #1



Now, lets discuss durability. Sure, aluminum can crack. If there are rivets, they can open up. But by a sheer weight to strength ratio, the only material better suited to building a durable boat would be carbon fiber. I'm sure we'll see that come along shortly. But until then, aluminum can be welded, rivited, bent, stretched, formed, cast and molded. It can be patched or repaired quickly and easily. If you hit a stump hard and seriously dent it, a good rubber mallet or a hammer and a block of wood can be used to knock it back into approximately original shape - and you can go back to fishin'.



Don't like the color scheme? Strip a tin boat down to its bare metal finish and do a custom paint job! Or pplish it and don't paint it at all! NOW we're talking sparkles!!! (Like an Eighth Air Force B-17 over Berlin in 1945. Who cares if you can see it five miles up, you don't have anything left to shoot it down with anyway!!)



COMING NEXT:



User Friendliness
 
Oh, and my father- and brother-in-law also own an ALUMINUM boat. If they ever joined this board, we'd have two more Tin Men on our side.
 
Guess insanity runs in the family! Glass is faster, purtier, and rides softer BECAUSE of the extra weight. Plus it retains more resale value. I noticed when Merc set the new world speed record for the 200hp they did NOT use a tin boat. Why is that you suppose? Because it would have blown itself into pieces after passing 70mph! Now granted the Avalanche can hold up a little better, but you need the best that aluminum has to offer just to come up to armpit reach of mediocre glass boats. (yawn) I wish you guys the best in your endeavours but try as you may, you can't dispute with any degree of logic that tin is in any way superior to glass! But alas, for the sake of world peace, I will meet you half way if Neeley ever gets out of that tank, gets dressed and perfects fibertin!
 
Again, why the need for speed? Are bass fast fish?



For that need, glass truly is ideal for racing. And for those with, shall we say, weak muscular-skeletal systems, I can see why a "cushy" ride would be appealing.



As for resale value, glass certainly would retain more resale value in the short run. However, as I have clearly demonstrated, when all is said an done and the boat is ready to be put out to pasture, glass really is put out to pasture. Aluminum is recyled, and the owner can receive at least some of his initial investment back (see Trep's example).



"Purtier" is in the eye of the beholder. I happen to prefer the bold, crisp, clean lines of the TV-18 to the rounded, softer, more feminine lines of the upscale Nitros. But again, appearance is an immeasurable, subjective criteria.



Let's move on to the next objective point. I'll admit, fiberglass boats are a very complex and complicated structure. So complicated, in fact, that it is difficult to tamper or modify the base structure and layout of the boat. Aluminum, on the other hand, lends itself to modification and layout changes quite easiliy. In my boat, for example, I could take the decks out and - with a few adjustment - create a boat layout very different from the one I have. Aluminum is much more "user friendly" for the shade-tree mechanic.



Next Issue - Weight: A Blessing or A Curse



"We also don't have to worry about the weight of our boat "growing" over time - just like many of us!"
 
"Your Boat - Does it float like a log, or is it waterlogged?"



Aluminum boat owners have one less worry than owners of fiberglass boats - becoming waterlogged. Scratch through the gel coat and into the fiberglass, and you run an increased chance that water will work its way into the glass mat. If this happens, the boat gains weight (much like the rest of us do over the holiday season as we eat "just one more sugar cookie". This plays directly into the economic issue. More weight - which to a point positively impacts the smoothness of a boat's ride - requires more horsepower. More horsepower requires either more money - either for fuel or up front for the more fuel-efficient outboard. As a boat becomes waterlogged, without an increase in horsepower the owner pays for that extra weight with a corresponding decrease in holeshot and top end performance.



That's what's so nice about an aluminum boat. If water were to happen to leak around the rivets or through a crack in the hull, at the end of the day - when the boat is back on the trailer - you pull the plug and that water drains out. You could leave a waterlogged fiberglass boat sit for weeks and all the water will never drain out of that glass mat. Worst of all, if there is wood in contact with that waterlogged mat, the wood can begin to rot weakening the boat's structural rigidity.



No sir, the only weight gain I want in my boat is when I ask a partner to go out fishing with me. Or extra rods and tackle. That would be nice, too.



 
Changing the layout: Simply put, not neccessary in glass boats because you can't improve on perfection. Though a vital option when dealing with the limited storage and appeal of tin. A need to tinker with tin is usful for a boat who's decks come out easy. That may not be a good thing after serious fishing.



Though it is difficult to scratch through enough of the finished layers on a glass boat to penetrate and effectively "waterlog" the matte, it is possible, though not probable. UNLIKE the absolute certainty that a tin boat with rivets will not waterlog but rather leak like a sive and all but sink if not for level flotation and regardless of HP can't even get on plane with up to 150 HP. Welded boats give the illusion that they are much tougher and so rated for HP motors that were only ever intended to real boats, made of glass. This leads to premature transom failure, hull flex, metal fatigue, stringer seperation and more problems due to the simple fact that tin was never meant to exceed 90 HP or 45 MPH whichever comes first. For result of exceeding those limits, please refer to the said paragraph above about riveted boats taking on water up to and above the floorboards IF you can get it back to the trailer, and pulling the plug is a mute point as the water will usually drain back out from amongst the dozens of holes from hence it got in there.

Nice try Mo, keep trying, you'll get better. LOL



 
Like I said, I'm just getting started.



You've made a valiant effort, friend, but continue to rely on speed and appearance as the standards by which true fishing vessels are measured.



Even if a tin boat sinks to its gunwales, you can still winch it out of the water, dry it out, repair the leaks and continue on your merry way. If this happens to a glass boat, you're screwed.
 
You said it, "continue to rely on speed and appearance as the standards by which true fishing vessels are measured." your words MO. We have speed AND appearance, which YES are by which TRUE fishing vessels are measured. Hung by the tongue!

 
Do you really want to pull on that thread? I seem to recall a discussion where you warned someone about a particular fiberglass bass boat owned by a professional which you considered to be completely unseaworthy. Do you WANT me to recount that discussion? Hung by the tongue indeed.



Now, to the issue of speed. How fast is a bass?



And to the issue of appearance: remember, beauty is in the eye of the BEHOLDER. I'm not sure I'd want to be seen driving a curvey, feminine-looking glass boat. Might give people the wrong impression. Kind of like the difference between driving a convertable car with your fuzzy sweater tied around your shoulders versus being seen in a 4X4 truck with a hooded sweatshirt, jeans, work boots and a baseball cap.
 
Actually, on second thought, you do make a good point.



Glass is better! For folks who are more concerned about appearances and popular opinion than with getting the job done. You have on that one.
 
Mo, the unworthy boat was but 1 of millions not the entire LOT like tin. Nice try to selectively pull particular words out of text. You sound like a politician! LOL And as for feminine looking, don't know what boats YOU'RE looking at, but I run sleek, long, big glass boats, with sharp lines that you can hang a 225 off the back and can ONLY pull them with a 4X4. Unlike the many lil tin boats you see towed behind the convertible Saubs or VW's. See I think you're having an identity crisis. You're talking like a glass owner, but have the attributes all backwards. You're actually making my argument for me. I will just stop now and let you further sink yourself! LOL HAAA, man, I'm gonna miss this fun all weekend!
 
Again with the speed! Good grief. Is that ALL you've got?



You still haven't answered my question - how FAST are bass? Do you need all that speed to run 'em down? Heck, all I have to do is troll around and they'er there!



They must be fast in the northeast becasue the water is so cold. Gotta swim fast to keep from freezing in place.
 
OK Rob - "the simple fact that tin was never meant to exceed 90 HP or 45 MPH whichever comes first." Let's just for the sake of discussion take the formed tin boats out of this (Tundra/Avalanche) and look at ALL the brands. So you've got the TV18 from tracker (granted EARLY models had transom problems with the 150hp, but like ALL problems in early models fixed!!). Oh and check the spec's on the Targa 18 (175hp max), Targa 17 (150hp max). Oh and those OTHER brands like XPress from the X21 (21ft and rated to 225hp) down to the X17 (17ft and rated to 115hp) and everything inbetween and that goes for G3 and Triton Tin too (186 Magnum rated for 150hp). I don't remember hearing any of THESE Tin boats having transon problems or falling apart over 45mph??? Huh, Huh???
 
What Ken, next you'll want us all to group hug and sing Cum By Ya!!!



Tin Tin it always WINS!!!
 
yeah and I think when Gopher got fired, he went to work out his house in GA!!! He took one of the life boats with him to fish from. Trep, those boats are flirting with cosmic disaster. They're out of sync with cosmic laws. Tin is NOT made to go fast or handle big HP. We ALL know that! How does it feel to have somebody get your pressure up????? Like it yet? Now, go look at some breasts and relax! LOL
 
Let's not let this become a tin men (or MOFish) vs. Rob discussion. Rob is doing an admirable job of representing fiberglass owners. He's enthusiastic, committed, and confident in his position.



So far, the tally is this:



Glass

* appearance (looks)

* speed

* ride



Tin

* economics (general affordability)

* user friendly (drivability, survivability)

* durablility (easy to repair and service)

* flexibility (easy to re-configure)

* recyclable
 
Oh, and on that "tin is not made to go fast or handle big HP" thing...the Avalanche is rated for 175 (for just an 18-foot boat) and 60+ mph. My boat is rated for 150 (and my transom is just fine, thank you very much) and runs somewhere between 50 and 58.



How does that not count as high HP and high speed?
 
"The Loooooooovvvve Boooooaaaattttt....exciting and new....come aboard...we're expecting yooouuuuuu..."
 
Mo you fogot resale and class for glass! Anybody can drive a Taurus (tin) but it takes class to drive a benz (glass)! And as far as layout.....get out! Haaa!!!!!! I got a million of 'em. I know, you already heard 'em all, but I don't care! I crack me up!
 
And even more importantly, we all need to remember that we're just...



clownin' around with each other. Right?
clowninaround.jpg
 
Ya know how you hear people or read them on the net and get this image of what they look like. Then you're usually way off? I had Mo PEGGED! I can't believe it. That's exactly how I pictured him! LOL
 
It's all them brains I gots stuffed up in there.
 
The key I think, is to not take people's comments too seriously.



My ex-girlfriend would've posted a picture of me that looked like this:
7793311.jpg
 
So, beauty is definitely in the eye of the beholder. Just like tin or glass.
 
Errrgggg!! It's not working. One more time and then you'll just have to guess.
7793311.jpg
 
there ia a lot more tin boats out there(old 50's era)boats than there are fiber boats.so what does that tell you?



oh mine is rated for a 150 hp.



neighbors islander with a 115 on it will do 40 mph on the gps,and thats rated for 225 hp.



hey,my 90 will do 1.5mph,which is fast enough for them bass! and they dont mind there is no sparklies either!!!



 
OK Boys and Girls (You figure out who is who) LOL.

If youre best argument is that Aluminum is not made for speed then let me list a few examples to prove you wrong.

All U.S.A Space craft. Has there everbeen a Fibercrap Shuttle..(1st dig) U.S Military Aircraft. was there ever a Fiberific F14..(2nd dig) (I should be getting close now) You can't fish from a B1-B Bomber at Mach II and you can't fish from any boat at 70 MPH if it's FiberPOOP or not.

Need For Speed Join the U.S Armed forces and take some Tin Rockets for a ride...Other than that Have A Nice Day...LOLOL

BF
 
Here is what I know...I have kicked and bashed my aluminum boats around for 46 years...My first boat at the tender age of 10 was an aluminum Lasen 16'... I still own her...she's shallow, narrow and tippy...she even sports a bullet hole 1" under the gunwale...somewhat unkempt in repair...but she is still there...floats and has been used in a support role during deer season as late as 2000... she was used as a barge to tow blind material to the island... I'm looking for any 1956 Fiberglass boats in use by members or guests here.... My 1976 16' Polarcraft Jon Boat is as good as the day she was bought...I repainted her about 10 years ago,,,new more modern shade of OD Green... She runs and serves me well for ducks, deer and catfish.... My 1988 Sylan 15' is fabulous on small 10hp rated lakes...doesn't leak at all... And, my 1993 Tracker 19' she doesn't leak either... I wonder why I like aluminum boats...could it be that I have a remarkably good record with them...I think so...I rest MY case!
 
I'm surprised that no one wondered why Jack (from Jack-in-the-Box restaraunts, for those of you who don't know) was sitting at my desk at work, and allowed me to take a picture of him!
 
You Mean that was not Mr Jack Daniels??? Hey Not trying to compete but my 1974 Wards Sea King 14ft never leaked I did have to replace the Wood on the back once. But you can't break alot with a 9hp engine.

BF
 
ANY boat that gets you out on the water, over some fish, with a good friend or one of your kids, for a nice day or night of fishing,conversation, and relaxation, and that gets you back to the launch safely, is a good boat....... it's just that it's better in TIN!

On a serious note, I went with tin for price, and after one look at my 2 youngest standing in the various boats,including the glass ones, in my deepV my youngest son would be less likely to "fall overboard"

so I guess it's more of a "safety" thing for me. I like the security of the kids being more "down in" the boat rather than being "up on" the boat if that makes sense.

eg(TIN RULES) Mike
 
Mo, you are my hero! I am not even going to participate in this thread other than to say...



Tin is In!



Rich D
 
Mo... One thing I do have to maybe give to the Glass Guys... Bass just might be real fast fish...cuz this past season I chased them all over and everytime I got to where I thought they were gonna be...they were gone! But, even when I went "pheesheen" in that "Cracker" Scott's glass yacht... They were gone...So I gotta get one "fastern" his... Can I put "Dually" 225 Opti's on a 19' Tin Rig if I reinforce the transom some?
 
greg,why stop at 225's?seen a pair of 300's on a rig,screaming across lake ontario this year.



i guess a seadrive out back with additional bracing should do it.



looking into the bracketry now!!



why do you think those go fast boats need all them horses to go fast?weight to brace the transom due to the hp needed to push it that fast!plus all the fuel they will SUCK doing it!
 
That's it... We deck over the splashwell for fuel storage...new braket out the back...course we need to run some stringers up under the gunwales to take some of the force/weight...two 300hp yeah... Rob...for pink slips? A water drag race? Soundsx like a nice winter project...gotta heater in the garage...
 
change of plans greg,need to find a diesel fuel tank,a pair of these on back will do! at 130lbs each,i think 320 hp each will be enough!
outboard.jpg
 
Yeah but are we going to get the SPEED we NEED...cuz dem bassus love speed...We gotta catch up to em to catch em... 78mph Bass have been bred from a cross between a spot and a Florida Strain LM... Mercury has been workin' on em for years... The Opti-Bass...LOL
 
The ultimate glass-man's bass boat.



Now, how do you mount a trolling motor on this thing?
P0002603.jpg
 
whats the trolling speed at idle?



figure a pontoon mount on the front wing with them jacknut things will work!!at least a 101lb 36v model.



a couple of pedistal seats,the upper casting deck(wing) would be a place not to dance around too much.just dont fire up the main motor while your partners up there!
 
<i>And the winner is . . . .</i></p>

<p><b><font color="#000080" size="7">EVERYBODY!</font></b>
 
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