Debate on the Championship Formats - BASS vs FLW

[Texas Transplant]

Okay. We have one Championship in the bag, and will soon have the second one in the bag (FLW in a week and a half). Having just gotten my FLW magazine yesterday, it really got me thinking again about the two championships.



I'd like to hear the various thoughts/opinions on the two formats. But, I'd like to put a guideline or two into affect (knowing full well that we wouldn't dare stray outside the guidelines).



The debate should center on the formats, and not the money. It's a given that the FLW money is more. Fact.

It's a given that the Classic has the prestige and history behind it. Fact.

We're not trying to determine who owns bragging rights.



The Classic is based upon 53 anglers fishing a three day tournament, with the cut coming after day 2, to the top 25, based upon official total weight (legal) brought to the scales.



The FLW Championship is based upon 48 anglers fishing head to head for two days; then the top 12 fishing on Day 3. Head to Head is based upon who got the biggest legal weight between the two anglers. The last day, is based upon the weight on the last day, and the format is the 'shootout' style weigh-in that FLW has.



Which one is the more accurate Championship Test - or are they both accurate?



Both Championships are run well. However, one is based on the same basic format that they use all year (BASS). The other is based on a completely different format than is used all year (FLW).



On the FLW side, they fish head-to-head. Is this truly a head to head competition - given that the anglers are not fishing the same water/hole/area, or that they really don't know what the other guy is doing?



I'll post up my thoughts in a separate reply, later. Just wanted some thought/banter here.



Tex

 

[gone bye bye]

Head to head fishing is certainly not a method to find out who is the best of the best. How in the world can a person catch more weight than another and NOT make it? I have never been a fan of the weigh in format of the FLW. I like to see the fish put on the scales all at once, but that is just me. The shootout format is better for TV (allowing ample commercial time).



BASS has changed their format in recent years, and it wasnt taken in by the pro's very well. Just a few short years ago they started NOT WEIGHING the smaller bags on Day 3 and the pro's were livid (remember the Jimmy Houston letter?).



I guess the best way to do it would be to make the field smaller, weigh the fish AS SOON AS THEY GET OFF THE WATER, and make a cut to a smaller field the final day. Keep the results secret and have a "Staged" weigh-in for the media and crowds in the arena (it was close to that anyway). The bigget problem with the cut format is that it eliminates and "come from behind" stories....it has happened alot in the 35 years of BASS.



Mini

 

[Texas Transplant]

Last year at the FLW, there were at least 2 anglers that went home after the first round (one being George Cochran), that caught more weight than someone who advanced. Those 2 anglers never had the chance to 'come-from-behind'. They all know the rules going in, but it just doesn't 'seem' to be fair.



However, it's not unprecedented. In the Olympics and the American Trials, a sprinter can advance to the next round, even if they are slower than those that ran faster in another heat, by virtue of winning their 'bracket/heat'.



Another thing that bothers me is that they change format's 3/4 of the way through the competition. Head to head on Thurs/Fri/Sat, then by weight on Sunday. In short, you have a champion that earned their weight on the last day.



Harmon Davis had 26lb 8 oz the first two days, and was seeded 1st. On day three, he had 9lb 4oz. Total: 35lb 12oz.



David Dudley had 23lb 11oz the first two days, and was seeded 11th. On day three, he had 9lb 7oz. Total: 33lb 2oz.



Dudley got the check, but I believe that the real champion was Harmon Davis.



On the BASS side, if you are fishing for the Championship, you should be able to fish all three days. Period. Actually, it should be that way for both.



Once you qualify for the championship, it should be the best person winning. And given that the accepted guage is 'total weight caught', it should be that way from the start to the finish.



Tex

 

[Michael Snow]

The BASS Elite 50 dumps the weight at some point and starts over.



I'm not familiar with "head to head" but it sounds interesting, but I like BASS's method of everyone against everyone. "Heat" type competitions only work when there's a finite number of players that can play (for instance 2 in single's tennis). If everyone is on the same water body at the same time, seems that "every man for himself" is the fairest method.

 

[Greg Meyer]

I have sat with some tournament directors and discussed possible formats... One thing that repeatedly comes up in a "cut" format is "how many to cut. 10-15-20...top 25% of the field... An interesting idea proposed was a flexible "cut"... Cut to the weight that is a formula... Greatest total weight minus the biggest one day bag plus 1 lb.... (Example) Top total weight 30 lbs... less biggest bag 19 lbs ...plus 1 lb equals ... the cut would be anyone under 10 lbs... Allows for exciting come from behind finishes.... Also... have had suggested that "byes" be given to the guy with the biggest fish and biggest bag if they were not already in the cut...





The RCL League cuts to the top 15 in a two day and that has been a very tight group in some tourneys... I think it is too drastic... they pay the top 20 (usually in a field of 100-120) so I would like them to keep all 20 in the next day....

 

[Craig Roberts]

I would like to see 4 day event with a few more spots offered for the first two days (say 60 anglers qualify instead of 53). After two days cut to 25, and to 12 for day 4. Fewer angelers on day four means a shorter show for the live audience, and a more thorough show for the TV audience.



Craig

 

[Tony Payne]

Head to head is kinda fun, but I honestly think "three day totals" is more accurate...



If for no other reason, consistency is what makes a person a good fisherman, and knowing what to do based on what you did.



Everyone knows that on any given day, person X can potentially catch more than person Y, regaurdless of skill.

 

[Texas Transplant]

Snowman,



The FLW for the Championship sets up a bracket much like the NCAA basketball tourney. 48 Anglers ranked #1 - #48 by seasons end standings.



First round, #1 fishes against #48, and so forth. Lose 24 the first day. Lose another 12 the second day. Then they switch to a one-day 'shootout'; all weights are zeroed; biggest 1 day sack wins.



Tex

 

[Mikel Stephens]

BASS

 

[gone bye bye]

Depends on how you catch em Mac....lol



Mini

 

[Max Neathamer2]

Most tourneys are won and lost at the boat.. FLW takes that away due to using a net. I personaly do not like that part of the FLW scene. In my opinion, it takes away from the sport. Still love watching them both as much as the other.



My .02



Max <><