Bob Wateski - Transom Hook

  • Thread starter Mark Hofman [IMG]http://www.zjstech.net/~library/3
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Mark Hofman

Mark Hofman

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Bob:



Would you say that this drawing reflects what you mean by a "hook" in your transom? I realize that it's not perfectly accurate, but would you say that it's close?



In my mind I'm picturing a little ridge right at the back of the boat, close to the transom, where the bottom of the boat runs flat and then curves sharply down right by the transom. It acts like a trim tab and forces your bow down. Right?
Hook.jpg
 
Yeah that's what he's talking about, some boats come with a certain amount of hook built in.



From reading his description, I think his is more sharp though, like an inverted "V".



But I'll shut up and let him explain....................sa
 
I hate to say it, but I think I know exactly what caused it.
 
my guess would be that the trailer bunks weren't long enough,...causing the cup to form from lack of support...but i haven't read all of the posts prior to this, so I'm just taking a shot in the dark myself....i'll shut up too!..LOL
 
Mac, I think you're right on the cupping, but not because the bunks were too short. He's got a Merc 50 hanging on the back, which is getting up there in weight versus the standard 25 h.p.



And...just like you warned me when I got my boat and didn't drive it far enough up on the bunks, I'll bet the transom edge was hanging just off the back end of the bunk one or two times. It would also explain broken stringers. Go do a search for "cupping" and find my thread on 1/16/2002 to see your orginal warning to me about the transom's position on the bunks.



I've seen this on other aluminum boats since then. Aluminum will stick to the carpet much easier than fiberglass, which makes it harder to drive up the bunks. I really have to watch this when I load. After I pull the boat out of the water, I always go look to see if at least a half-inch of bunk is sticking out past the transom edge. If it isn't, I'll back into the water again and really crank on the winch strap to pull the boat forward on the bunks.



It's not such a big deal if the motor is small. We've got a friend with a 16-foot Terry V-hull and a 40-Mariner who actually popped his transom braces loose from the bottom of the hull because of this.
 
I've noticed that driving up on the bunks is difficult sometimes. I always make sure that my Targa is 'all the way up' on the trailer, even if I have to man-handle the front of the boat and crank it the rest of the way on.



I'm always getting ribbed for not being able to get it all the way on the trailer, but with the high bow and all, you can't drive and see that well at the same time.



Good points on the cupping. Be interested to see what Bob responds with.



Tex
 
Mac and MO - For the frozen southerner down here (only going to be 51 today!, let me have it Rob!!) - The bunks should extend to or just past the physical bottom of the transom? So NO aluminium is hanging off the bunks right?
 
Amen, brother Trep, just past the transom. NO PART of the bottom of the hull should be hanging off the back of the bunks. Your bow eye and keel should be in full contact with the rubber bow stop, even with the winch strap loose.
 
Trep:



If you're working from home, would you calm my nerves and check YOUR setup? Please tell me you've got a little bit of bunk sticking out past the stern of the hull bottom.
 
MO - Yup working from home, went in the garage and checked have a few inches of bunk wood/carpet sticking out past bottom of hull/transom. Sorry so long to respond had to make a run to meet a buddy to get the 3 DVD set of Austin Powers movies to watch while I travel the next 3 weeks (my new laptop has a DVD player built in - YES!!!).



 
GREAT!! Thanks.



I was trying to check the possibility that Tracker/Trailstar had mismatched the length of the bunks with the Pro Crappie hull length as a reason for cupping to occur.
 
Mo,..most of the short bunk problems occur when guys replace their bunks with homemade ones.....it's always better to er on the side of "too long" vs. "too short" when it comes to bunks!! Especially with tin boats!! I heard that about 15 yrs ago at a "BASS Institute" I went to that was put on at IU,.....went to one in Columbus, OH. too...very similar to the new BASS Universities they run now.

Mac
 
Thanks for the info guys. I'll try to explain the hook a little more clearer. The drawing is close, but the edge of the hook is more round than sharp. I do not have the boat here at home because I would not sign for it from the dealer after it came back from tracker. The info I got was that they did not get all of the hook out so I feel that the boat was not right.



I do make sure the boat is all the way up on the trailer when I pull out. Most of the time this summer when I was out, my 15 yr old boy was with me. He has been driving a bassboat for about 2years now and is better than a lot of adults that I've seen at landings when it comes to going on

and off the trailer. This puts me at the front with the crank.



This boat is 17 ft. and is rated for a 70, but I only put on the 50. I would think that if the boat is rated for a larger motor that it would carry the weight without a problem.



As far as I can remember, the bunks do extend past the bottom of the boat. I will double check this and let you know. I appreceate the questions. I will continue to try and answer them the best I can.



One of the biggest problems that I have is trying to explain to a 15 year old boy, why we are having some much trouble getting this taken care of. My son was in a bassboat the first time when he was six months old and has been a boat and fishing nut since than, which I'll never complain about. He hopes to become a pro fisherman some day and buying his own boat.



If possible, could someone delete that first message I sent that got everyone P.O.'d. I guess it got everyone hot enough that now they don't worry about the cold. One

way to get rid of cabin fever.



Oh, TREPMAN, here it is only going to be 14 today and -4 tonight, just so you know you should be out fishing if it is that warm, I know I would be.



I do have a letter from tracker and some E-mails from tracker to the warranty manager at my dealer that I will post later when my son gets home. I am new to this computer stuff and he's a wizz at coping and sending.



Again, guys, thanks
 
While we're waitin' for Bob W. to tell us whether we're on- or off-track with this....



IF - again IF - this is the situation he's in, what suggestions do any of you have for fixing it?



I'm thinkin' that if it was my boat, I'd take to an autobody repair shop to see if they've got equipment that could remove the hook/cup out of that back edge.



If you could lay the hull on something solid, or put some kind of solid support underneath the hull, I'll bet you could take a block and hammer and just pound the hook out.
 
Okay, HELLO Bob!!!



Man, we're posting at the exact same minute. Let me go back and read your stuff.
 
Bob: Am I getting closer with the picture?



(You may have to right-click on a blank white space and select "REFRESH" to get the new image to display)
Hook.jpg
 
The rating for the outboard motor simply means that the performance of the boat on water is considered "safe" and that it will not over-stress the hull. I don't believe it takes trailering into consideration.



What I think we're dealing with is that the weight of the outboard would not be supported by the bunks via the transom if the back edge of the transom extends past the edge of the bunk. It would be like putting a piece of cardboard on the edge of a table and pushing on the unsupported edge wtih your hand. If the force is great enough, you're going to bend the cardboard - maybe even crease it.



I have absolutely NO doubt in my mind that you or your son are loading the boat correctly at the ramp. I thought I was doing everything correctly until I got home and loosened my winch strap. The bow of my boat would pop up and back about an inch each way. The probable cause was that either the winch strap wasn't wound completely tight when I snapped the lock into place, or that I hadn't goosed the motor that final little bit to make contact with the bow roller, or that the trailer was a bit too deep and the boat slid back and inch on the bunks while I was tightening the strap. I'll never know.



Mac's warning about checking the transom and bunk position was taken to heart when I heard about the potential for cupping.



Maybe this ISN'T what happened to your boat, but because its a reasonable possibility, you may need to re-think your approach with Tracker on the warranty issue.



What other possibilities exist for this kind of condition to exist? I'm racking my brain trying to figure out how a manufacturing or design process could result in a condition like this.
 
MOFish, the drawing is close, it is just not as sharp as you have drawn. A little more round. Also, I was worried that tracker would just try to pound out the hook and then I would end up with loose rivets or metal at was thinner from the pounding. As you know, aluminum is soft and it would not take to much to thin it out. I just feel that for a brand new boat, I should be having this much trouble.



Thanks.
 
Bob:



You're right. NO ONE with a brand new boat should have this kind of trouble, least of all someone with as much experience as you.



I hope you aren't taking my comments as criticism. I'm an analytical person and what I'm trying to do is eliminate possible explanations. To me, this is only the first possibility. I'm still thinking of how a manufacturing or design error could contribute to a condition like this.
 
I will let you know more later as I have to head back to work, but I will check the boat and get the pictures to send. I not trying to argue with you either. It is hard to explain somethings, so I hope the pictures will help. I have been trailering for a lot of years all over the country and I know that a boat not on the trailer properly can really cause problems. This is something that I have made a habit of checking anytime I hook up to the trailer. As I said, I've had other aluminum boats and I know that this could be a problem if the boat extends past the trailer. I'm just trying to make sure you know that I check things out without being sarcastic. Don't take me the wrong way. You have some very good questions.



thanks again
 
this is a really "cool" website with great people (i'm runnin out to check the bunks on my glass boat too!).

yep, it is all the way up on the bunks. whew!! that sounds like a good explanation to me as trailering with all that weight hangin over the end would cause excessive stress in one specific spot, especially with the bumpy roads around here. maybe tracker decided the fix would cause more harm or weakening to the hull than what the problem is?

jd

jd
 
Also why you want a motor saver! They should be called transom savers. It puts some of the weight that would normally increase with road bouncing and distributes it to the trailer rather than flex the transom. Ever watch your motor while running on plane? Try it some time. You'd be amazed how much that puppy jumps back there in waves and how much flex stress the transom endures on regular runs.
 
Okay, my theory has been disproven. 3 1/2 inches is a lot of bunk sticking out the back end.



I'm out of ideas for right now. I'll keep burnin' brain cells to help you get a solution, though.



James, your hypothesis on why Tracker wouldn't (or more importantly COULDN'T) "fix" the hook sounds reasonable. But, if it wasn't caused by impact or by hanging too far off the bunks, then why not declare the hull structurally unsound and replace it? Which puts us right back where Bob W. began...



Unfortunately, with at least two non-defect explanations out there (impact and trailering), Tracker could win a court battle over the issue. They'd have to show how an impact would cause a hook (I doubt they could), but the trailering problem wouldn't be as hard to justify or explain.



 
Well,



THe time factor doesn't matter here, but over 30 years ago my friend purchased a new 18' PolarKraft Jon boat. It would "twist" as it ran... Eventually, out of the water, off the trailer, the dealer diagnosed a "hook" in the hull at the transom. The "cause" was traced to the manufacturing process... The hull sheets had been "jigged" wrong...basically there was too much material so that when the sections were joined to the transom it created a "wrinkle"... The hull was replaced because there wasn't enough extra material to allow it to be de-riveted and re-riveted without having all theose old holes right there at the transom. Could this be a repeat of that same kind of circumstance. Bentley's (my friend) hull was "obvious" to the dealer because he was familiar with the manufacturing process. I would guess that an experienced sheet metal contractor could lok at your hull and tell if it was screwed up in the jig.
 
Now THAT's what I'm talkin' about!!!



Thanks for another very plausible explanation, Greg!!
 
Mo,



It's that old story... live long enough and you WILL have seen almost everything once. LOL
 
Anybody lived long enough to see a flyin' pig?

When I asked Kym to marry me, she said when pigs flew!
 
Scott,



Get a crate, and ship a pig to me by overnite express.



It will have flown at that point.



You didn't say it had to be under it's own power, or willingly.



Learnin' alot about Tin issues, keep the thread alive.
 
Now why didn't I think of that!??!

(Of course, I only proposed 'cuz I knew she'd turn me down! Whew!)



:^)
 
The "beer bill" for THAT reception will alone break the all time record for $$$$ spent... Cuz we would all come even if we all weren't invited!!!!
 
mofish -

besides what greg said about the boat twisting, my question to myself was "why didn't they go ahead and fix it while it was in the shop". while tryin to think positive, the reason was maybe it just simply would cause more damage to repair and maybe lead to other problems (like cutting some metal out and having to put a weld where one should not be). i'd be upset too if i sent something in on warranty and they sent it back to me partially fixed. i'm not makin judgement as there are always two sides to a story. It would seem that the trailering makes a lot of sense to me. I would think that if something were hit in the water enough to bend or cause a hook, it would definately show on the outside of the hull unless it was sand or something. sounds like so far it is either A: hangin over the end of the trailer bunk (doesn't seem likely since the bunks are long enough and have an experienced owner); B: the twisting of the hull like greg mentioned due to mfg defect.



Also, Bob mentioned something about a stringer or brace that had been broken. would one of these being broken maybe cause a "twisting" effect on the hull since it is not fully supported? If this twisting is the problem, wouldn't one side be "hooked" more than the other? thought i'd throw that out there for the maybe category. it seems when i have something major go wrong with a product, it is usually caused by a few little things. hopefully we can get some pics to maybe pin it down some more. sounds like his dealer is trying to support him on this issue. hope this helps. next question i'm asking myself is that if there is no visable damage, how could they say it was caused by impact? seems like it would take a lot of impact to do what has been described. i'm curious to know how this turns out.



Scott, you gotta be careful man!! with cloning and all, there may be a pig that flys.
 
SORRY GREG,WRONG ADDRESS!



is this boat all welded or riveted?if it is all welded it would be hard to cut the seam apart and reweld it back straight especially on the trailer with motor attached.



riveted would be easy to reriveted,but the holes would be elongated,and possibly hard to seal.ill have to wait to see the pictures of the hull to make a opinioned guesstimation.



once aluminum is stretched,itis kind of a pain to get it back the way it was.and possibly heating it a little will take the temper out of it.
http://pub89.ezboard.com/baluminumboatownersboard
 
Jeff,



Then there are two Aluminum Boat boards...
 
I think we have three valid explanations of what happened:



1. The boat was sitting too far back on the trailer, with the transom and motor hanging off the end of the bunks. (Evaluation: not likely since the bunks stick out more than three inches behind the trailer. You'd have to really load that thing poorly to sit so far back.)



2. Bob W. did, in fact, hit something (but didn't feel it). (Evaluation: not likely because of comments made by the dealership and the lack of any apparent physical evidence of impact.)



3. The boat was built and developed the hook because of the way it was set up in the jig at the factory.



This thing has me racking my brain trying to figure out a way to help Bob.
 
somehow, he has to get his dealer and boat in front of somebody in the higher ups at tracker to make the right decision. sounds like mid mgmt (warranty dept) don't want to fix the boat or don't think they should. maybe the warranty dept is right, but it would seem that better 2 way communication is needed. i'm still thinkin how could you hit something to cause a hook? i mean if he ran into something wouldn't there be a big bubble or dent in the hull near the transom? it is bugging me too mofish and i don't even own a alum boat. the dealership neads to get a hold of higher ups at tracker, make the case for him, and get this resolved.



 
Now we are going to get me on top of a soap box that has more than just my viewpoint, but...



As I see things about warranty issues there are (at least) two kinds... (1) The kind of thing that happens over time... the whatchamacallit quits working... and (2) the thing is "wrong" from the start...



The dealer has a role in the these two scenarios that differ... in the first case...(1) when the thingamjig goes bad the dealer who sold it should support the customer and help him get the issue resolved... But, in the case of a boat with a bent keel... a twisted hull that won't run straight from the moment the customer delivered it... or like Bob's a hull that is not right... This is something that the dealer should know froma careful inspection... after all the dealer is in a position to make this inspection and should visually inspect all of the hulls before he delivers them... This is a boat the dealer should take back and refund or replace and then the dealer should handle the issues with the factory. The customer is not the quality assurance department for the manufacturer or the dealer... In fact the customer should be able to expect the manufacturer and the dealer to make these inspections. I do not believe that a dealer has the right to deliver a product that is defective. Obviously if the customer pays for the boat and then walks out into the lot and finds a bent hull he has every right to say no and get his money back...this isn't quality roulette...where you pay your money and take your chances... So, what legal or certainly moral difference is there when the customer picks up his boat in good faith from the dealer and then takes it down to the pond to launch only to find that it won't run straight, etc... What right does the dealer have to say...you drove it off my lot now it's a wait to get it fixed thing... if the goods are non-conforming (and certainly a hull that will not function is not a boat it is just bent-up aluminum that looks something like a boat) then the customer ought to have a rioght to reject that hull after it has been found to be non-conforming... Unlike a car...you can't drive off in your boat... I think if dealers were responsible in these situations there would be a m ore responsive boat industry. A while back my lawyer suggested and I posted his suggestion additional language to add to a boat purchase agreement explicitedly giving the customer the righjt to reject the boat and get a refund...
 
How about a bilge full of water,and then freezing?Would that be enough to buckle the bottem of the boat?
 
hopefully that person you spoke with can get something moving in the right direction for you Bob. sounds like the right channels of communicatin is a least happening. from what i could tell of the pictures, it didn't look like it was from impact as previously said but it looked like that is just the way the boat was made. if that is the case, i believe tracker will stand behind it. it may just take some time. best of luck to you.



jd
 
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