Line Question

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Ok, I know I'm going to take a lot of flack for this but as a rule, I don't think we give our little scaley opponents enough of a fighting chance. Now it's one thing to make sure your equipment is "heavy" enough but c'mon reels the size of an SUV winch and line as strong as piano wire doesn't seem to me to be fair. With that being said, I will spool 10-12lb test IF I am going to be fishing a lot of structure because to break off on a snag is much different than breaking off on a fish. Just a few posts ago I commented that I use power pro 20# test 6# diameter for tubes. That is the heavest test I have ever spooled. I tried some 14# on Champlain and it felt like I was throwing telephone cable. So, you catch a 7 or 8 pound fish, why do you need 20 to 30 pound test or higher (excluding the snag factor). You hear about pullin them outta cover, grass, timber, etc., but really is it overkill? I mean, do we really give them a fighting chance? I am mostly spooled with 6 to 8 pound test and I have to say, I can't do a sweeping hookset and just horse them in (I've seen some guys just drag them across the top of the water like they were on a clothline) I have to use some skill before, during and after the hookset and if it's a toad, I have to use the net but you know what.....I don't get upset when I lose one either. Sometimes you win, sometimes the fish wins!! Obviously this excludes the pro's who are fishing for a living (another slam from me on tournaments!!) NO SPORT!! Ok guys, I've got my javelin catcher's uniform on, let um' fly!!



TOXIC

 

[Texas Transplant]

I use 12/14 lb routinely. On my spinning outfits, I'm using Spiderwire fusion - 12lb. I've purchased some 20lb for C-rigging, but haven't spooled any of it as yet.



Overall, I think that it is different strokes for different folks. For me, if you use good line, and make sure and re-tie regularlly, then you will be okay most of the time.



However, having said that, I do not have the ability to fish many lakes that have a bunch of strucutre that I deal with. If so, I may up the line size.



Alternately, I don't believe in fishing 2-4lb test to give the fish a better chance. For the most part, unless fishing for panfish, most all of mine go back in the water either immediately, or at the end of the weigh-in.



Tex

 

[Don Wilhelm]

TOXIC, the heaviest line I use is Berekely Big Game 15#. Its a little heavier than standard 15#..Closer in diameter to 17# Stren or Trilene. I have never, NEVER had a fish break this line, and I have landed 2 King Salmon over 20 lbs on it. One in a river (slow moving) and one in a creek (fast moving water). Both of them are full of logs and other obstructions. Many of the salmon/trout fisherman in theis are spool with much lighter line than I do...some down to 8# test!

 

[Roy Cody]

Tell that to a few of the guys in my club that haven't weighed a legal fish yet this year!

 

[Rob LaMoy]

OK Tox, LAY OFF the tourney pros, I are one! Now, for the facts. I'm all for a little sport, but the fact remains that if you go with to light a line when it's not really needed, the longer you fight a fish, the more you wear it down, and it builds up lactic acids in the muscle tissue. This can be detrimental to the mortality of the fish. It becomes stressed, fatigued, and the fish's muscles won't function well for hours after release if you unnecessarily fight a fish for too long. You can increase the mortality rate by 50% doing that. So really you're NOT giving them a fighting chance, you're sealing their fate. They can die from infection, disease, or predators much easier in their weakened state. I use light line when the bite dictates it. But when I can, I use 20 lb test! And believe me, if you caught the size fish I do (slam right back at ya) then you would know that. 20 lb test is still no guarantee with a ticked off 5 lber in the wood or tires! So there's my .02. Now for them bitty lil trout, yeah, I use 4 lb test and barbless hooks. Because if I DO land them, those bad boys are going into the frying pan that night anyway. And the mortality of released trout is more than twice that of other stocked fish. I get the NYSDEC stocking reports and analysis each year as a guide. It's serves to be useful info at times like this!

 

[James D.]

i think we (fishermen as a group) could handle and take care of our fish better before releasing. i've read that holding a big fish up by the lip horizontally can break or damage the jaw. then ya got big realeased fish that can't eat. not a good senario. if ya hold em, either support the arse end or let em hang down straight. i use the silver thread line which has a small diameter and have typically used 17lb test (about the same dia. as 14lb berkley) but have moved up to 20lb test. i flip in the timber and the line takes a beating. i like the sport of it very much also, but i don't know if a bass swimmin around with a 4/0 hook in its mouth with a zoom brush hog or a 1/2 oz jig & pig is good either. i tend to think a little differenty when crappie fishing as their mouths are pretty delicate and use 6-8 lb test. this is a good post and i can see both sides. i, like tox can handle loosing one every once in a while, enjoy the sport of it, and fish mainly for fun - i think maybe that is what keeps me coming back trying to catch the big one that got away. i do however, have a hard time handling a bunch of missed fish.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Good reply Rob,



I was hoping you would chime in on this and you are right, over fighting a fish is much worse than a quick catch and release but to clarify, I don't overfight them. I get em in or I don't, it isn't one of those Bill Dance run to the front, run to the back, swing the rod 10 or 12 times and finally latch a lip. And I'm not dissin pro's, that was my point. When you're fishing for BIG tourney $$, you gotta hook em, get em' in and well em, asap or you've got a dead fish at weigh in. I was talking about the little tourneys that are fished like big ones. In your lakes, a 4 lb bass might have a predator but in mine unless he's floundering at the top (might as well be dead) where an osprey, cormorant, eagle, turtle or whatever can snack on him, if it's gonna live, the lactic acid thing is a non issue (not that it's good to overfight once again). Heck, I lip hooked and fought in a bass within 30 seconds, popped the hook dropped him back in, and watched him pop up to the top like a bobber--dead. Those fish go in the well undersize or not, I will not let them foul the lake. You are right and have made me see a finer line than I originally thought was there, but all in all I will opt for a level playing field. And by the way, I've never had a 5lb anything break 10 lb test (including smallies but NOT including pike and musky....spelled teeth). I have my doubts that a 5lb poodle could chew through 10lb test in the amount of time it would take me to get him in LOL All bets are off if you're going to dunk for 30, 40, 50, pound Mr. Whiskers. That's when you have to spool the big stuff. So, there is a time.



We need to fish together. It'll happen. (and I'll whip your butt LOL, gotta be neutral water though!!)

 

[Bob G.]

Champlain is neutral water.... It's right between Rob and I!!!



Bob G.

 

[Mark Hofman]

Oh to catch fish that require 10, 12, 15, 20 pound test!!!



I usually spool 4, 6 and 8 pound, with one casting reel that has 10 pound Trilene mono.



But then again, look at what I usually catch!

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Ahh you're on Tox, and I'll be handing out lolli pops and arse whoopins. But I've recently run out of lolli pops! Now let us look at MO's text book definition of how NOT to hold a fish. If it were bigger........hint, he could easily break the lower jaw.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Should the fish be say this big, THIS is the correct way to lip them.

 

[Mark Hofman]

THANKS, Rob! I always learn something new here.



O'course, when they're so small you can hold them by both the jaw and the tongue...



I've held hundreds of tiny bass this way and have yet to break a jaw. If it's a bigger fish and I'm holding it for a photo, I will also support them by the belly in the palm of my other hand (ref. My Library, photos "Bass.jpg"), or hold them vertical as you show (photo "NimsBass.jpg).



I think the bass in the above photo weighed all of about 5 ounces.

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Careful now, you're catching up to Scott! He might get ornery with you moving in on his turf! Those are HIS fish. The only ones he can get to bite, or has the arm to muscle into the boat! LOL I crack me up sometimes! Haaaaaaaaaaa!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

MOFish, I can help you out, reason is, you be wearin your huntin' duds fishin'!! LOL Them thar fish think you're a turkey hunter and gots a gun. If you want to fool the fish you have to wear something reflective like the water. From what I hear, Rob wears saran wrap with a thong that has lollipops alllll over it!!



Am I startin somthing I can't finish here?



TOXIC

 

[Ken Neeley]

Wear something sparkly...



" 'Dem Bassus Love Sparkles" (c)

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Oh yeah ya are!!! LOL Say, I wonder just how far I can jam a lollipop up Toxic's.............

 

[Mark Hofman]

Tox:



The only reason I wear camo is so that my wife don't see me leaving her alone when I goes fishin'.



I'll be eatin' breakfast at the table, she'll come upstairs and say, "Aw, he left me behind AGAIN!" and go back to bed. I just have to be careful not to smile so she don't see mah pearly whites. Then, at the lake, I change into mah red shirt - makes dem bassus MAD dontchaknow - ...



and mah tin boat is nothin' more than ONE BIG METAL SPARKLIE!

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Actually Tox, I fish in my pink silk panties, not saran wrap! Mac does the nauga thong, and Neeley....well he wears an anti inflamation cream applied with a putty knofe to prevent rashes and bug bite itch! It covers his lower extremities! It'll scar you for life just seeing it. But on the bright side, if you ever need any, he buys it by the 5 gallon bucket!

Now Toxic, see, he wears titanium nitride, ballastic under wear! Approved by NASA to protect the shuttle upon re-entry. They are very much appreciated by his coanglers who might be downwind or on the back deck!

 

[Mark Hofman]

Rob:



Scott TOOK the picture!



He draws dem small bassus

like flies

to Kneeley's assus.

 

[TrepMan]

Gotcha Beat MO, i'm so skinny I disappear when I turn sideways (as long as my scmeckle isn't at full mast :0) So I just blend in to the scenery and away I go!!!

 

[Rob LaMoy]

Scmeckle????? Never heard it called that before! Trep you are a wealth of strangeness! LOL Full mast????? LOL I can't wait until I meet the patron saint who calls herself Mrs. Trep! LOL

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Trep,



Just don't let Rob give her a lollipop. You never know where it's been.



TOXIC



PS Shovin A lollipop up TOXIC's..........Would be the equilivant of a high power powder muzzleloader. Better be careful when you tamp it in.

 

[Mark Hofman]

To everyone but Rob and Toxic:



Can't you just see thoese two guys in a boat together? Yowza.



ROTFLMBHO!!!!!!! This is the funniest thread I've seen in a long time.



Trep: My wife thinks I wear my camo to bed. "Where'd it GO?"

 

[Ken Neeley]

Ok...I can't resist....does it fly at half-mast on Memorial Day, or is every day a memory for Mrs. Trep???

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

HAHAHAHAHAH, Welcome to Gutterland!!



TOXIC

 

[Rob LaMoy]

(in my best italian, mafia, gangster, godfather/scarface voice)

"So whaaat? am I'm here to amuze you now? You tink I'm funny do ya? Dat's funny is it? You tink I'm funny? Well, tough guy.......Do ya????? DO.....YOU.....TINK.....I'M.....FUNNY????? Why I oughta........"

Tox, get the muzzleloda ready see. We're gunna teach our lil "funny" friend here, Mr. MOfunny man a lesson. Say ello to my lil friend.......Toxic's highpoweredmuzzleloaderbutt!!!!!! OK Tox, let 'em have it!

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Hey, I started this thread with a serious subject.......How did it get transformed into beans and weanies?



TOXIC -----GOIN FISHUN-----I"M OUT-------PEACE

 

[Ken Neeley]

Hey Trep...schmeckle ze deutsche???

 

[Ken Neeley]

Hey Trep...if there's a freckle on my schmeckle would I call it a speckle???

 

[Rob LaMoy]

he's been in the slim jim jar again! See what awaits you Marke????

 

[Mark Hofman]

Tox..that's the risk of being serious on this site.



Nobody can stay serious very long!



Rob doesn't speak softly, and Trep carries a big schtick.

 

[Staci Matheis]

Back to the line question for a moment..... If you can even begin to imagine ME being the one to bring sanity back.....



I'm with you, TOX. Spinning rods for bass are generally 6#; baitcasters generally are 12#. Ultra-lite spinning for trout are 2# or 4#. Baitcasters for cats 17# or 20#.



If I've got my drag set properly, I almost never have a fish break my line. Large (5#+) trout can pretty easily make 2# mono go PoP! 30#+ cats can run you all over the channel before they finally break you off when they go one way while you and your boat are still facing the other! And those toothy critters in the northern lakes - well, they're another story!



If one of my 5 ounce bass wraps my 12# around a stump - it's me who ends up with cut fingers and likely a dead fish stuck on the other end.



I agree on the pro thing, too. When the buxs for your kids braces is hangin' on the spinnerbait - you gotta get that fish in the livewell NOW.



I've fought many large fish for long periods of time on light line, carefully removed the hook and let them loose to fight another day. After a long fight, you can't just heave them back; you've got to baby them for a while to get them revived so that they won't go belly-up on you. I think that, if the livewell airation system is working properly, and you take a few moments with the fish there, rather than just throwing him in and closing the door, you'll also have a higher survival rate. If I'm planning on keeping fish in the livewell on a hot day, I put in some of those blue ice packs to keep the water cool. (I lost 3 big, beautiful catfish a few summers ago to heat and that taught me a lesson; I felt like a mass-murderer.)



Lighter lines are so much more fun to fish with.....



Just my .02!

me!

 

[Bruce Yeaton]

Rob - you may want to look in my library to see how to CORRECTLY lip a BIG fish !!!

 

[Bruce Yeaton]

Oh, and Rob, my library has not been updated to my latest 6 lber either