Hard to steer and navigate 2006 591

[Greg FitzGerrell]

Since purchasing this boat new last November I've done nothing but argue with Nitro dealers about what I think is a safety issue. The boat has a 135 Optimax with the standard 3 blade prop and mechanical steering. This was the basic 591 model.



When I first put the boat in the water it wanted to spin out at any speed. I took back to the dealer and all they did was add a torque tab on the motor. I put back in the water and it was better at 40 mph but below that I had to fight the wheel even when on plane. I took to another dealer recommended by Mercury and they added a torque fin, moved the motor up to the correct height (they say) and it did take all torque out of the steering at 40 mph. I could let go of the wheel and all was good. However when I have to slow down to say 25 mph to navigate some creek bends, I have to trim the motor down fully to stay on plane and the steering gets unmanageable again.



I also discovered when I have 2 adults on board, full gas tank and live well, it will not get on plane for almost 8 seconds. By myself and no water in the well, it can plane in 3 seconds.



I've complained to Nitro home office and they are investigating. The second dealer wants to install another prop and add hydraulic steering, and told me the motor was marginal for this boat and 3 adults. Of course, all is at my cost.



I believe the boat should operate safely, at any speed and up to the max weight stated on the sticker, including a full tank of gas and a full live well. Am I being unreasonable? I'd hate to think I'm not getting this for the money I spent.



Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Brian Ingersoll]

The time to plane issue sounds like a normal result of the boat being underpowered.

The slow speed planing also doesn't sound so bad. Most bass boats will only stay on plane down to about 20 mph and require the trim to be lowered all the way to prevent porpoising. I would think the lower speed and bottomed trim would cause harder steering. Motor height will make an incredible difference in top end handling and performance.



The second dealer is right about the motor size. Another prop will help the time to plane issue some, but you probably don't need to step to hydraulic steering for that setup. I would get another smaller pitch prop for loaded boat running and keep the one you have for light running. (its always good to have a spare anyway)



Sorry

 

[Jeremy Theys2]

I don't understand the "wanting to spin out" part. I know you need to play with the torque tab to counter oversteer or understeer some. It's a part of having a boat with a rotating prop.



I agree with the hole shot note from Velcro. It is a result of an underpowered motor. If the motor isn't what the max is listed on the plate, it is underpowered. Just checked the website and that boat is listed for a max 200 hp motor. That's a lot of boat to push with a 135. I notice they listed the 150 as standard. Why would you step down on motor size?



I think the motor size is strictly the problem, not steering.



I would equate your question to my smaller tracker boat (16 footer) with a merc 25 tiller. The max capacity is 4 people or 850 lbs (or close to that). With that many people my boat wouldn't be safe nor get on plane. So my response is yes, you are being unreasonable and asking too much out of that motor. Your boat is rated to 4 people or 600 lbs (this includes fuel, and everything you can pile into that boat). Everything the dealers told you is true.



At this point I would be appraoching the dealer to see what it would cost to upgrade to the 175 opti or 200.

 

[joe haley]

I,m sorry to say you are way underpowerd with that boat you should have at least a 175 with hydrolic steering you would eliminate all your problems you have to remember that Nitro puts together a package that is cheap enough to appeal to a mass group and that does not always add up to the best performing boat I have a 929 with a 225 and if Iwere to buy new again I would probably go with a 250 just my opinion



JD

 

[Jim B]

heres my .02



I dont think the planing time is bad at all, actually for that boat with a 135 its quite good. I have been in boats that were much slower then that with 225hp motors on them. I dont think you need more power as long as you dont want to be the fastest boat on the lake. It should perform fine with the 135. Although if it was my boat it owuld have the 200 just because i like to go fast.



The steering thing you have two things going on. One is prop torgue. Any time that prop is in motion it will try to turn the boat to the right. Wide open throttle and/or no trim will make it pull more. Its pretty normal with standard cable steering. The only things that will prevent it are a no feedback helm or hydraulic steering. As you noticed there are times that it will feel pretty neutral, in your case 40mph. Id bet you are at 3/4 throttle and trimmed out about 3/4 of the way and the motor is perpendicular to the water. At that point its steering light and neutral, any more or less trim and more throttle will make it pull again. Again totally normal.



The other you have to deal with when fullt trimmed in is the boat itself. Not only are you trying to steer the motor, you are also trying to steer the boat. You have a lot of hull in the water and it will take a lot of effort to move it. The thing that will make it turn easier is hydraulic steering. But there are some things you can do to make it better. Try a little less throttle and a little trim. You will have to play with it to find the right combo of speed, throttle and trim. Once you find that it will steer easier, it just takes time to find the right combo.



To me everything you are seeing sounds normal. I run a similar setup a nx882 with a 150 and cable steering. At wide open or full trim in its very hard to steer. its something i know about and understand so i can make adjustments to make it easier. I can run the boat at ~20 and have it steer pretty easy because i know how much throttle and trim i cna get away with on my boat. At wide open and full trim its not easy to steer but i can do it. or i can trim in a little, back off the gas a little and it steers easy. I have installed a nfb helm to help with the right hand torque and make it easier to drive but it does not change the effort required to turn the wheel.



Is this your first boat? Please dont take this the wrong way but it soulds to me like you just need more seat time.





btw. Letting go of the wheel at speed is a recipie for disaster in ANY boat. The prop torque could jerk the wheel to the right at any time and it could flip the boat or eject you and anyone else in the boat. For your saftey and the saftey of others please dont do that. Boats dont drive like cars.

 

[Scott Smith]

Greg - as the others mentioned...the problem is your underpowered boat, there is no defect here. You can have dealers and mechanics tweak things all you want, unfortunately you will see minimial returns for the efforts.



If it was me, I would start negotiating a repower with your original dealer. As mentioned many, many times in previous posts...get the max HP for the boat. If you look at some other manufacturers, you'll notice that a few actually list the MINIMUM HP they recommend for their boats as well as the max, it helps avoid issues like this. I wish Tracker/Nitro would do this, this is a topic that comes up way to often.

 

[Max Neathamer2]

Seeing how you should have two props, I would get a 4 blade (It will help with extra weight while trying to plane). You just need some more bite with that 135.



Max <><

 

[Cliff Van Beek]

Ok, I really dont have to add much to what has already been posted.............other than to echo what has been repeated many times here..............MAX out the HP on any boat, be it the main power, or the trolling motor...........you can never have too much of either......

 

[Scott Smith]

Well said Mr. Goff......well said....

 

[Greg Duggan]

From One Greg To Another.

Listen to the masses, the are saying the same thing here.

you need to plant your butt behind the wheel of your new rig and learn how to drive it.

i don't mean how to make it move, i mean how to make it perform with what you got.

i have an 882 with a 135 opti, it performs great for what i bought, don't expect a 591 to be a rocket ship with 135 horses pushing it, that torque steer is part of owning owning an outboard with out hydrolic steering. lear how to ballance the trim and amount of power you are giving. it will take some time to get tthe feel for the set up. 4 yrs ago i got a lot of the same feed back you are getting now. i can say seat time is the best option you got that wont set you back a couple of grand. try running 3 blade 23p tempest. i am running that prop on mine it is the best for all around performance. i tried a 4 blade and a couple other pitches.

don't give up on the set up.



GregD

 

[Bruce Freeman]

Greg F, You need to give it some time and learn to drive the boat. Hydraulic steering, a hotfoot and another prop might cure all you issues. Mr Goff is being blunt and to the point. I started here several years ago looking for an answere to a problem I bought into. What I found was a place that was full of anything you want to know. If you are looking for sympathy you may not find that here. If you want the truth and how to fix your issues or and least tips in how to deal with them. You have found the right place. You can e-mail anybody here and get a reply. You may not like it but you will learn and get help here.



Take Care

BF

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I agree with Pat...that's NOT RIGHT with any dealer.:angry:

 

[TOMMY RICH]

I was easy once Pat

Never again

 

[davetnitro]

You can always count on Pat to clear the muddy waters

 

[Marty Klein]

I think advice to maximize the motor size in every case is less than ill-advice. It should at least come with a caution that operating at full speed is not prudent in all cases and in fact, the avoid disaster point might come closer to shut down speed as opposed to being just a little off full throttle.



My 750 is rated for a 135. However, operating at FT or a little less might be disatrous on the big MO and KS lakes.



My 750 has a 90, well off max boat HP, and I suffer none of the issues discussed above. Well, I did suffer the misfortune of having a Tracker dealer that had the audacity to treat me decently.



Blunt is good, but when a guy has a serious concern, is blunt force trauma the right treatment? :lol:

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Maxing out the HP will make it easier to hide the lack of seat time and driving skill. period. You can power your boat on plane with pure HP or you can work the trim, balance the boat, and actually DRIVE it on plane. The disservice to the customer is not all the dealers fault. Simply put, it takes a lot more skill to drive one, than to hammer the throttle and go. I'll be the first to admit that after a few months in my rig, I cut the "on plane" time in half. No mods, just learned the boat and what it needed to get on plane. And let's face it, 929's are known as a "point and shoot" boat, they don't require a lot of skill to drive. It's just like buying a cheap baitcaster for your first reel. You'll birdnest it 99 out of 100 times but put that reel in the hands of an experienced fisherman and he'll be able to throw it clean. Maybe not as far as a top end reel but it will be fishable. The exception to my theory is that if a boat is grossly underpowered and physically can't get on plane, then your done. I do not think that is the case here. A 135 opti will get that boat on plane and will perform. For the experienced driver, the bigger ponies come into play on the upper end ie., speed. IMHO!!



TOXIC

 

[David Munaretto]

Piece of friendly advice, read then reread pat goff's post - he is the kind of guy who tells you how it is without toating the company line. Bottom line - your boat is way underpowered - you went for sticker instead of power. That leaves you with few options - but few is better than none. Your options include:



1. Dealin with it. Know your boat is underpowered but it works for you. Nothing wrong with that.



2. Get a smaller prop. Hey you can alway's tell people you love great hole shot - drop a few in pitch, shoot up 90 degrees from neutral, and someone will idle you.



3. Get a bigger motor. That sticker on the side says "max horsepower" - its a government thing, it should actually say "if you want to get the most out of this boat, buy this motor." Chalk it up to your tax dollars being wasted on other programs, like... well I can't really name any... Iraq's good, what else to say here?

 

[Greg FitzGerrell]

Thanks everyone for your honesty.



Yes, I am a first time new boat buyer. I owned a 82 Kingfisher, 18' with a 115 Evinrude for 5 years. I never had the problems I'm experiencing now. The 591 is a different animal, but I wanted something bigger with more space to walk around.



According to the dealer, the 150 was another $800 which I felt was not justified because I did not need to go any faster than the 135 could push it. I did not discuss with the salesman how many people I would put in the boat or what creeks I would navigate, the hole shot, planing, etc. I believed these boats were tested in the different configurations and approved to sell that way.



Yes, it is my fault for not asking the right questions or taking a test drive. I've asked NITRO for their assistance in solving these issues. As of 1 week they have not responded.

 

[Scott Hammer TOXIC]

Greg,



Get one of the State Team guys to take you out in your rig or maybe even someone from the dealership (if other than a BPS store) and let them try to get it to perform. Make sure you have her loaded up and full of fuel. Let us know what happens!! Go to the Houston BPS and ask for assistance if all else fails.



I'm glad you did not take offense to the posts here because I felt it got a little negative to the "buyer" and that is not the case. You only know what you know and it is up to the dealer or salesman to make sure you know what you are getting and how it will perform.



TOXIC

 

[Greg FitzGerrell]

Update:



After sending a letter to Nitro and the Tracker dealer they've asked me to do some tests by removing plugs in the prop and record time to plane with and without people on board, water in the well and so on.



They said outright my boat will do no better than 6 seconds to plane with the 135 Optimax. It will do better if I'm the only one on board and a empty live well.

 

[Mini]

I dont have the time to type everything I want. Alot of it has been discussed here.



Remember that this is a glass boat not a tin one or a car.



Also horsepower has a TON more to do with overall satisfaction of ownership than top speed.



ALWAYS, and I mean ALWAYS max the horsepower out on any boat you buy.



Mini

 

[Greg FitzGerrell]

Nitro sent me a Trophy Plus prop, 24 pitch, large PVS plugs to try. I installed it but the boat would not get on plane. I contacted Mercury and they said I have to install a spacer ring to the front of the prop hub to block the exhaust flow. The Nitro dealer has never heard of this. Mercury said either install the ring or block all PVS ports and try it again.



If anyone has experience with this can you please reply. I'm willing to try anything but Mercury and Nitro are not on the same page I think.



Thanks in advance.