Do I need a different Worm Rod????

[Teri C.]

For my worm rig, I use a Quantum Energy PTI20 and a St Croix medium power, fast action 6'6" graphite spinning rod with 10lb PLine. I have been fishing alot with my neighbor and he out fishes me with a worm every time. I miss several fish on the hookset. He says it's my rod and I should get a Heavy rod. Everything I read yesterday online says Medium to Medium Heavy if you aren't fishing heavy cover. Our lake has very little vegetation. Lots of chunk rock. What do you think? If I need a different rod, what do you recommend?? I NEED to beat him.

 

[TritonGlenn]

Rods and reels are a matter of personal preference - in almost every aspect. What works well for one person will be "junk" in another persons hands.



With that said, before you go running out to buy a new rod - the number one question I have to ask is:

1) HOW SHARP ARE YOUR HOOKS???



Without sharp hooks, even the best rod will not get a good hookset. Hooks are another matter of personal preference, but my favorites across the board are Mustad Needle Point hooks. Gamakatsu's run a close second, followed by Owner (except for their frog hook - which is on the top of my list), and then it falls off drastically from there. I mean nobody any offense if they fish with other hooks than those mentioned, but I have found (in that order) that those work best for me.



Number 2 question - What kind of hook set do you have? If it's a soft hookset, or something with no "umph!" in it, that may be part of your problem. My wife fishes with Shakespeare Ugly Stiks - probably the most versitile, inexpensive rod on the market. However, the limber tip used to give her fits on the hookset with a worm. I told her to "cross their eyes" on the hookset - meaning to give it all she had. She did, and the lost fish count went WAY down. She sets the hook so hard now, I almost go off the other side of the boat. :lol:



Number 3 - again - personal preference item - why are you fishing worms with 10 lb test and a spinning rod? I seldom ever use that setup for texas rigged worms, unless I'm doing a lot of skipping under docks - but that is with a 5'9" MH spinning rod. Most of my worm fishing is done with a baitcaster setup - 6'6" MH rod with a good 6.3:1 reel and 14lb test at a minimum most of the time. Not to say that spinning gear won't work for this purpose, but for the areas I fish, the only time I'd use a setup like you described is for wacky-rigging Senko's.



If your hooks are sharp (and I mean "sticky" sharp), your hookset is good, and you prefer spinning gear and still want a new rod, then yes - I'd suggest checking out a 6'3" to 6''6" MH spinning rod. Otherwise, I'd work on some of the above mentioned items and watch your catch ratio go up.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Jim B]

If it was me i would step it up to a MH or heavy rod if your going to fish a t-rig worm on spinning gear. I have a few of the same rod you are using and i dont think there is quite enough backbone for a really good hookset. If your fishing finesse stuff the rod you have should be fine, i fish small worms (4" finesse stuff, shaky heads etc) on mine all the time. One thing you may want to try before getting a new rod is some braided line. With 10# line stretch could be part of your issue.



My personal preference is to fish a t-rig worm on a MH casting rod with 17# line or braid depending on the covrer. I like casting gear better because the rod generally has more backbone and i can fish a heavier line which helps get rid of any line stretch problems.

 

[Berry Lindley]

Terri, I agree with TG. If you are Texas rigging worms you ought to try a MH 6-6 or even a 7' rod, and I suggest a baitcasting setup rather than a spinning setup. When you get a pick up wait a few seconds and then bust his you know what. I'm certainly not a pro, but when I take people out this is the toughest part to teach, how and when to stick 'em. Remenber you have to get the hook through the worm as well as into the jaw. Now, I use a spinning reel 75% of the time, I just don't use them often when using a worm even tho I have MH rods (I fish for a lot of stuff other than bass). If you are on O-Hick, run up the river some and find some grass, you may just like it up there.

 

[Tony Payne]

I'll second TGlenn's questions -



One thing you didn;t mention was the weight you're throwing or size worm....



Secondly - you could be missing some because the medium rod with P-Line 10# - first thing I would try would be to move to FLourocarbon - 10# - you should have a quicker feel for when the fish hits the lure, giving you more time to set the hook.



Never underestimate the fact that you could be feeling the fish spit the lure as opposed to them picking it up, or that they only have part of the lure (and not to the hook) - practice is key here.





Also, what type of Hook? I've found that sometimes switching back to a straight hook (from an EWG) on some worms results in more hookups. DIrection of your hookset is also important, sweeping vs straight up....

 

[Teri C.]

Well, I never claimed to know what I am doing. Ha! Silly me but for some reason I thought I was suppose to use a spinning outfit for worm fishing. I use bait casters for crankbaits but I can try it for worm fishing.



I prefer spinning reel because I have alot less problems with my line at night. We have been worm fishing at night alot and if I can't see when the worm is hitting the water, I tend to nest the baitcaster.



I use 10 to 12lb Fluoroclear PLine with a 3.0 EWG Gama hook with a 1/4 bullet weight. We use 7" Berkley Powerbait worms with black with blue fleck. Sometimes I think we should be using something smaller because we get alot of bites compared to the number we bring in. My neighbor has been having trouble feeling them because they have it swallowed by the time he set the hook. Any suggestions?



What should I be using for a rig, line, hook, worm at night? I am totally open to changing because I don't really know the proper technique for texas rigging but I don't think I have an issue with my hook set. Ask Mac, it's pretty powerful.

 

[Teri C.]

See I get confused because I read alot of articles that say the following. This was an article on worm fishing at night:



"Keep it simple on the first few trips. Rig up two sets of spinning outfits. The Bass Pro Shops Bionic Blade rods will work. Select the six foot six inch one piece rod in a medium tip and the other rod with a medium heavy tip. On the medium tip rod use 8 pound test line and on medium heavy rod use 10 pound test. Make sure to use fresh line to avoid getting kinks in the line in the dark."



:wacko:

 

[Teri C.]

Just read an article about using braided line on spinning reel because it eliminated line stretch. What LB braided line for bottom fishing, not heavy cover?

 

[Bill McElroy]

LOL...Teri,..your hookset is NOT the issue...plenty of power there!! Deffinitely switch rods tho,..go to a 6'6" or a 6' 9" Med Hvy Btcst rod with a straight handle. Spool your reel with 14lb clear Trilene XT or BPS Signature series line. If you're fishing clear water use the clear line,..if it's stained, use green.....I like the Gamakatsu wide gap worm hooks in 3/0 for 6-7" or worms and I'll go up to a 4/0 with 7.5 or longer worms. I prefer a 1/4 to 3/16 oz bullet style sinkers (black) with a screw in peg (Florida weight) if I'm fishing in weeds and I'll use an unpegged or slip style bullet sinker in open water. Worm fishing is still one of my favorite inland (lrgmth) fishing techniques, but now that I've got the smallmouth bug so bad, i rarely fish for greenheads anymore!! Worm colors are a personal choice, but you will never go wrong with black, pumpkinseed, black& Blue, blue fleck,junebug and watermellon.

Woo Daves has an AWESOME worm rod (BPS Extreme) if you're in the market to buy one,...just make sure it's atleast a Med/Hvy with a fast tip and a lot of backbone.......your med spinning rod is a good rod for finessing sluggish fish with a 4" worm or a tube....but if you want to fish a bigger bait in deeper water...you'll need a stiffer rod with a baitcast reel and bigger SHARP hooks...and when you feel that "tick"...go on point,..point that rod at'em, reel in the slack and SET THAT HOOK like you're stealing cake from a fat kid!! :blink::huh:!!

 

[Berry Lindley]

A lot of good advice above. One more thing.....on OH, there are a BUNCH of big warmouth, and you have to learn the difference between them and a Largemouth. The "machine gun" bite is the warmout, and they LOVE to hang out near the rocky areas. I get fooled sometimes myself.........after a lot of yrs fishing. And don't forget to retie your hook knot after a few fish.

 

[Edward Lea.]

I have to disagree with some of you all. I have spent the better part of my fishing life (40 years or so) using the ol rubber worm almost to the exclusion of other baits. l have probably bought and had bass tear up more worms than most people alive. 6'6" MH to 7' MH rod SPINNING ROD that is the ticket. No I am not a pro just spent an enormous amount of time fishing a worm every way you can, even use them for top waters. One with a fast tip if you can find it and you don't have to spend more than 30 bucks for it. 8 to 10 pound test for the kind of water you are using and the lightest wieght you can get a way with. I have never used any thing over 1/4 ounce and almost use 1/16 to 1/8 exclusively. Most people set the hook to fast. A bass will hold on to a worm a long time if you give him a good worm ( Mann's) There are alot of baits on the market designed to catch fishermen(persons). Just go with the old true and tested. Let the bass pick it up and become a line watcher. You will see the line twitch and move before you feel it a lot of the times. And yes try to bust your rod when you set the hook. You have to wait until the slack is almost all out of the line before you bust that fish in the chops. Try letting him have it a little longer and see how long a Bass will hold a "good" worm. You will have to learn to get it into him before he swollows it however. This will just take time.

 

[William H. (Bill) Barham]

I'm with Ed on this matter. I have always, for about 35 years anyway, used a 6' spinning rod

Texas Rigged for Bass. I started out using my set up with a bullet slip sinker but I had trouble with those hanging up. So then I started pegging my worms onto the line. Then I got away from all of that for awhile and steadily used crank baits, spinner-baits, etc., because I had won a local Tourney using a Big-O. I finally got back to fishing worms when Toxic explained how to fish Sencos. Now, if I could get out, I would be armed with a bunch of Sencos and also a bunch of Mann's Jelly worm's. When you cast that Senco, be PATIENT. Just when you think, "oh there's nothing there"and start retrieving back to the boat a fish will swirl behind it.

So be patient.. Even when you know he's hooked, just watch the line as it swims out and takes up the slack. When the slack is gone, Cross His Eyes with a hook set.



Uncle Billy

 

[Bill McElroy]

Spinning rods are fine for worm fishing if you prefer spinning reels over baitcast reels. The key here is the prefered rods action,.....Medium action spinning rods are too limber for t/rig worms....she'll need atleast a Med Hvy spinning rod for worm fishing.

 

[Marty Klein]

Hogwash. Her rod and reel are fine.



I'm going to relate a lttle interaction I had with KVD at the KC Sports Show a few years back. I told him that I was having a very hard time catching fish on worms. He simply said "when you feel the fish pick up the worm, set the hook." Now then, he didn't ask about my rod, my reel, my line, my hooks, nothing. I felt like I was talking to Curly in City Slickers and that dang "one thing." In fact, my actual thought at the time "you arrogant mustard, keep your fallutin secrets to yourself." In reality, some time later it dawned on me; I was simply not getting serious worm bites; oh sure, I was getting beaucoup tail-tugging panfish bites, but no bass bites. There was no secret for him to tell me. It is as simple as getting a bite and setting the hook.



Try waiting a tad, an itty bit, a fraction of a second, before setting the hook. During that tiniest of times gently draw your line tight to see if a fish is actually on the line; if you feel the fish, then slam it home. Use a topwater "delayed hookset" mindset. That will help you determine if you are getting serious bass bites. Think of those times on FLW or Bassmaster when the pro says "there's one" and then he takes his time drawing up the line before the actual hookset. Do that.



Also, hold your rod at a 45-degree angle. I've found that allows me to feel more pickups.



Buying something new is not always the solution.

 

[Mini]

Spinning rods are fine. I prefer to use spinning when dealing with casting worms as opposed to flipping or pitiching.



Get some braided line. I really like the new Excel Briad by BassPro or get some PowerPro. 6/20 or 8/30 should do you fine. Use a palomer knot on a supersharp straight shank hook if you are fishing weeds, a EWG if fishing wood or rocks.



Watch your line!!! Tough to do at night though. Real up slack and hammer it home IMMEDIATELY! I have never been a proponent of waiting....I feel alot of times you are feeling the fish spit the bait out if you wait to feel more than one tap. There are times that the fish will swim off with the bait....that usually means that there are more than one fish around that structure. HIT EM IMMEDIATELY and HARD! You may need to back off your drag a bit when using braid....it doesnt stretch and if you dont back off the drag or use a more limber rod (like you have), something will break and more than likely it wont be your line....



Good luck!

 

[Gene B]

At a Bassmaster University seminar with Woo Daves, he explained the worm bite. The first tap you feel is the fish sucking in the bait. The second tap is the fish spitting the bait out. The third tap is me slapping you in the back of the head, sayin' ya done missed him. He also said the only thing thats free in your boat are hooksets, so use them. With practice you will be able to tell the difference between a bass bite and a panfish bite.



Gene

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Practice, Practice, Practice

Woo is right.

Rod action and line do play a part in the play though IMHO.

 

[Teri C.]

Thanks for all the advice. I did go to Bass Pro yesterday and bought a Shimano MH 6'6" spinning rod and 12lb xtra strength PLine and restrung my reel last night. I also bought some 15lb line for my bait caster and I already have a MH rod. When it's not dark, I will try using the baitcaster for worming. It's been so hot here that the majority of fishing is only after dark. I can't see the line so watching it move is not an option. It

s all in feeling it I guess. Hopefully I can improve! I learn alot from you guys!



P.S. I saw some Daiwa rods that have the type of rod printed right on it....like small mouth, finesse, crankbait. etc. I was pretty impressed with these rods but they didn't have the one I needed.

 

[TritonGlenn]

Teri,

Hope everything works out well for you with your new rod.



On the Daiwa rods you mentioned (and others) that print the "type" right on the rod - it's a good suggestion, but don't let it be the end-all-be-all of decisions. I regularly use rods designated as "Worm" rods for my spinnerbait and buzzbait fishing, use a "Spinnerbait" rod for my worm fishing, use a "Carolina Rig" rod for my pitching rod, "Topwater" rod for twitching jerkbaits, etc.... I've met quite a few people that do exactly what the rod tells them to do - "It says spinnerbait on it, so that is what I use for spinnerbaits". I found out by accident that some of my "worm" rods made a better spinnerbait rod than the designated "spinnerbait" rod, and that is when I started really playing around with them. 6'6" MH rods are very versitile, but I've found some that are better suited to some types of fishing than others, and I never go by the labels anymore.



All the best,

Glenn

 

[TOMMY RICH]

Best crankin' rod I have for smaller lures is a 6'6" medium walleye rod...works perfect, just the right tip action.

I agree Glenn....you mean people really read those labels?:lol:

 

[TritonGlenn]

TEE,

One of the funniest things I think I've heard at a show was a young gentleman talking about the Rod Wraps that go on the handles of rods. He made a comment to the effect of "you can color code things so that you know which rod is your spinnerbait rod, which one is your crankbait rod, etc...". This older gentleman standing quietly by then casually responded "I don't know about how YOU do it son, but I know my spinnerbait rod has a spinnerbait tied on to it, my worm rod has a worm tied on to it, etc...". Stopped the younger guy in his tracks immediately, and we all (including the Pro-Staffer) had to laugh.



Yes, some people actually read those labels. :lol:



All the best,

Glenn

 

[Teri C.]

....I am one of those people....:angry:

 

[TOMMY RICH]

:lol:

oops

Seriously Teri...rod choice is just one of those things that you have to try different ones to find what fits your style of fishing. Same rod is not gonna' work for everyone.

A good example is my buddy Carl...I cannot get this guy to switch from these "buggy whip" type noodlesticks that he uses. He thinks my Medium and MH and even Heavy Rods are too much. Thing is...he just can't understand why he misses fish for one reason or another. I've also seen him lose alot of nice fish because of his stubborness.

Be versatile...VERY versatile

 

[Kieth Fedo]

Have to agree with the others, you'll find as you fish longer that you'll have your favorites for worms, spinnerbaits, crankbaits, etc. Myself, I own and carry on the boat about a dozen rods and reels, (10 baitcasters, 2 spinning reels). Each work for me for what I'm throwing. As for my favorite worm rod, it's a G-Loomis, baitcasting, MH. Something to keep in mind though, my father always told me you'll always be outfished by the old man on the bank with a cane pole.

 

[Teri C.]

I wasn't really mad but I did read the labels. I don't have a rod and reel for every occasion. I have 4 that I use, 2 spinning and 2 baitcasters. The rods are nice brands but I always bought Medium I guess because someone told me to. Ha! I now have a MH in a bait caster and a spinning rod so we'll see how it goes.



As far as fishing from the bank......I can go behind my house and fish from the bank and catch more than I do from my boat.

 

[Bill McElroy]

Teri,....Having all "Medium" action rods is fine for most people who only fish a few times a year and aren't really that serious about getting better and trying different baits and techniques. They don't want to be bothered with the additional expense involved when what they have "will do" (in their opinion) most of the time. You are neither of those!! You're a serious angler with the passion to learn more and try new stuff. that's AWESOME!! Take golf for example.......there's a LOT of people who play with 4-5 clubs and that's ALL they ever use no matter when, where or how often they play!! If they learned to hit "other clubs" they could lower their handicap significantly, but they don't want to put in the additional time to practice!! You won't see Tiger Woods ever playing with less than a full set, nor will you see KVD without 12-15 rods in his boat!! All different setups for different situations. You probably don't need 12-15 rods, and most people don't,..but those of us that do,..rarely use all of them in a season,...but,..we have'em if we need'em!! A GOOD worm rod is just another tool meant to do a specific thing with a specific bait......you'll notice the difference right away when you start hooking more fish, loosing fewer...and using the right rod and reel for the right situation....it makes a HUGE difference. No need to hit a golfball twice with a 7 iron, when you can get the same distance with 1 good stroke of a 3 wood!! It's all about using the right tool for the right situation!! And...if you're keeping score with your neighbor...whip out that new worm rod and let'er rip!!

 

[Andrew Zuber]

Right on Mac...



Rod is just another tool....and with more time you'll want to refine them...



Just like other small tweaks can make a difference....

You don't have much vegetation to fish in now...but I'm sure you know how it was in your lake in Indiana...

Last night in my tournament we were fishing a bit outside of the weed edge...it was a slow tapering flat that still had a few scattered weeds on it....about 10' deep...

We had practiced there and done quite well...

But at the start last night, we were not getting bit....then I remembered that when I re-spooled my reel the day before, I had put a slightly lighter weight on it (texas rig).

Changed the weight back to the heavier one to get down further in the weeds and started catching fish...

Didn't take much, but we did not have a keeper until that change....ended up catching 3 keepers and my son added 1 on topwater...



Little tweaks...



az

 

[Bill McElroy]

I love deep weed edge fishing w/ T-rigged worms and J&P's....and it'll never be easier to find them than this time of year when the BIG fish are in their summer pattern on deep weed edges!! I won more club tourney's in late July & August than any other month(s),......all on deep weed edges...@ 12-15ft where the weeds stop growing.