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tom le

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Question on a couple of reels: I have always owned shimano reels but looked into these. What do you guys think about the reels:



Quantum Tour Edition PT



Ardent XS1000



Which one is better / Whats your experience with them?



I currently have Shimano Calcutta GT TEs.:D
 
i have two of the xs600 ardent reels and they been great.you can use them to cast anything you want and they will throw a mile.
 
Quantum makes a fine reel. I have been totally happy withthe JLM line as well as the Browning line. I know you didn't ask about them but in my estimation, you can get them cheaper, get equal performance and have $$ left over for more baits!! Had a client who bought 2 new reels, a Shimano Curado and a REVO. He cranked the drags down on both and fished them side by side slowly tuning them in. The Revo failed miserably, he was going to take it back. That was just him though, I did not throw them. Reels are not only a personal preference but some just work better with your casting style.



TOXIC



On edit.....Glenn tore apart one of my JLM Elites...took it to the frame (is that trust or what!!) He can probably explain the quality of the components better than I and he will be brutally honest.
 
I like the Quantum's I can not afford the Tour Editions, but do like hte Energy's. Also, the BPS branded KVD reels have really treated me right. I really do like them and they hold up well to 25lb stripers too....On the striper note though, the Brownings are better suited to those bruits then the KVD's.



 
Tom,I have played with both reels and I guess I nshould tell you upfront that I am on the Quantum Prostaff.I looked hard at the Ardent and noticed that you have to remove the side plate to adjust the brakes.That is not something I like to do in the boat.The Energy reels are great reels and are somewhat cheeper than the Tour.The KVD reels are a good product for the money but they don't have the good bearings.If you have any questions about Quantum feel free to email me.I'm also an 898 owner.
 
Most every company on the market today makes a quality reel. Those that aren't top quality, can be "tuned" most of the time to be a decent quality reel, granted the frame doesn't flex.



I've never seen an Ardent in person... but if I can get my hands on one, I'll make sure I tear it apart and disect it.



As Toxic stated - "Reels are not only a personal preference but some just work better with your casting style." That is about the most truthful thing anyone can say about reels. What is junk in one persons hands may be the shiznit of all reels in another persons hands. :lol:



What I look for in a reel:



Frame, frame, frame. If it's got a graphite frame on it, and it doesn't have the words "Shimano" printed on it, I'm probably not going to tournament fish with it. Fun fish? OK.... Tournament fish? Never. In my opinion, Shimano is the only reel company ever to make a graphite frame reel that was tournament grade. The Curado (old version) was the only graphite frame reel that I would ever consider tournament fishing with.... and I'm not a Shimano guy. I fish with all aluminum framed reels (or magnesium in a few cases)



Bearing placement and quality - not overall bearing count. Bearings in a baitcaster serve two purposes - allow the spool to flow smoothly on the cast / retrieve, and strengthen the components that ride on them. There are 5 major places that bearings absolutely belong in my opinion (reverse for lefties of course):



1) left side of the spool

2) right side of the spool

3) right side of the reel, where the spool shaft extends to the tension knob

4) underneath the nub on the bottom of the main shaft

5) the anti-reverse roller bearing



Other companies also add them here:

6) opposite side of the anti-reverse roller bearing - to add strength and smoothness to the shaft as it exits the handle side of the frame. Daiwa does this a lot.

7) on one or both sides of the worm gear

8) underneath the clutch cam that is underneath the main gear - adds strength

9) in 2 to 4 places in the handle - most put two per handle grip



Any place there is NOT a bearing, a bushing will be substituted. Bushings may be made of teflon, delrin, nylon or some other form of plastic. I've replaced bushings on some reels with quality bearings and turned an "ok" reel into an "awesome" reel. Remember - just because it's got 10 bearings does not make it quality. I'd take a 5 bearing reel that had ABEC 5 or ABEC 7 bearings in it over a 10 bearing reel with cheap Chinese bearings that wouldn't rate on an ABEC scale.



Speaking of the ABEC scale... The bearing quality is just as important. Looking at them, you probably won't be able to tell easily unless you know what you are looking for. However, some are easily identified as junk.



If you can see the balls in bearings, you have "Open" bearings. As long as they aren't primary bearings that could be exposed to the elements, these are ok, but if you have open bearings on a spool support - you're dealing with inferior quality. If they have a polymer cover between the inner and outer races, then you have a "Sealed" ball bearing. Decent to have on spool support and anything that could be exposed to the elements - even temporarily, but not the best. Metallic shields between the inner and outer races keep most everything out - these are the best to have on key areas. They are mostly called "Double Shielded".



The drag - of course. The more disks, the better - most of the time. Of course, cheap stacks aren't worth anything. I'd rather have a three disk quality drag than a 6 disk cheap POS. However, given the choice, I'd pick more disks. Stacks of disks are normally stainless and teflon, carbon fiber, or some grease impregnated material. If the drag isn't to my liking... I write to these people (who, for a price, will custom make you some ultra-smooth drag washers): h
 
Oh, on the "side plate" issue that Rich mentioned (just my thoughts):



It never bothered me to have to open the side plates, as I seldom ever do it on the boat. If my reels are set up properly before hand, I usually only have to tinker with the tension knob to fine tune it - not the brake collars. If I'm re-setting brake collars during a fishing day, either the wind has got WAY stronger than before, or something went wrong with another reel, and I'm having to substitute with another - requiring adjustment.



In those cases, I would never stand on the front deck of a boat - that's just asking for trouble - go sit on the back of your front deck so that the reel is above the sole of your boat - so if any parts fall, they are trapped.



All the best,

Glenn
 
See, I told you:lol::lol::lol: Cut and save that little ditty above and you will be much better off when buying reels. The only bad part is most places won't let you stand in the store and disassemble a reel to know what you are getting.



TOXIC
 
Thanks All.



I am going to get one of each and test them out.
 
Tom,

What did you do? Name change from Riceman898 to Bassrat898? :lol::lol::lol:

My offer stands on the Ardent. If you want it "tuned", I'd be happy to do it for you. I'd like to see the insides and see what can be upgraded.

All the best,

Glenn
 
You might want to scrape the bottom of the reel seat on the old green "graphite" (LOL!)frame Curados and take a good look at the shiny silver aluminum staring back at you. Sideplates and cover plates, yes. Frame, no.
 
Dan J.,

I stand corrected. Never scraped the bottom of one to find out, and was told by the Shimano Rep at a show back in 1994 (my first show ever as a pro-staffer for Daiwa) that they were Graphite. They looked like Graphite, but didn't have the flex I was used to seeing with Graphite. I believed him. I even saw Bass Pro Shops several years ago advertise the Curado as "Graphite Frame", further confirming what I had been told. To even further make me scratch my head, several Shimano Pro-Staffers / Field-Staffers a few years ago, when Shimano changed the Curado, told thousands of people at another show that the new reel "had an aluminum frame, vice the old version, which was graphite". Odd that even some of Shimano's own Pro-Staff / Field Staff didn't even know.



So... I went to the source - I just got off the phone with Shimano, after waiting 10 minutes on hold, to be told that you are correct - the frame on the Curado has always been aluminum, even on the old green ones.



So... with that being known now, I can change my original statement to:

I would not tournament fish with ANY graphite frame reel, from ANY manufacturer. :lol:

(Better?) :lol::lol::lol:



Lesson learned... don't believe everything you read and hear from "knowledgable people"... including ones that have studied the inards of reels for over a decade. Even knowledgable people make mistakes.



Thanks for the correction. I've been thinking that reel had a graphite frame for a ton of years. Gonna quiz some Shimano folks I know the next time I see them. Ha! :p



All the best,

Glenn
 
Hmmm.... I'm finding more info as I check. Here is a quote from a Shimano fisherman named "SenkoMan85" over on this forum: http://forums.basspro.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=023597



... who says:

Graphite is not as strong as aluminum, but that doesn't mean its weak by any means. I fish the mean green Curado 201B's with graphite frames and I fish them HARD.



So... let me keep looking. He might have just been led to believe it was graphite, as most of the other links I'm finding say aluminum as well. Sure wish I had that old Bass Pro Shops catalog or a few of those old reels laying around - I'd check for myself.



All the best,

Glenn
 
Okay.



I went out and got each.



1st impression is the quantum is better made just on feel. I am going to put line on both and go out fishing tomorrow. Will report after done. Glenn, I may have to take you up on the offer. :D
 
Just let me know brother.... I'm standing by with tools on my workbench! :lol:

All the best,

Glenn
 
Glenn - If you can get hold of an older catalog and/or an older box you'll see the "All Aluminum Frame" bulleted on each box of the series. I can't tell you how many times this came up at the reel counters in my years with BPS. It was easily proven with the sratch of a reel seat bottom on one of the demos. It sure does look like graphite with the paint job, but it is a cast aluminum frame with lathed/drilled porting. If you want some specs or schemeatic, call out to Irvine at SAC, ask for Jeremy Sweet or Kevin Dart. Tell'em Big Dan says Hi!
 
Dan,

Got it. Thanks for the info! What is SAC?



Riceman,

Ooooohhhh.... man.... just went on Ardent's site and downloaded their schematics. :blink: Saw something on there that really got my attention. :eek: Go here and read their "warning" on their schematic on the lower right hand corner:

http://www.ardentoutdoors.com/files/uploads/XS1000_Schematic.pdf

They "strongly" discourage disassembly of their reels. :unsure: Wow. Never seen that before. That alone would turn me off from buying them. Wow.



All the best,

Glenn
 
Shimano American Corp.

(949) 951-5003



They'll fix you up with whatever you need in schematics or diagrams/parts contents on just about any reel with their name. The parts themselves for the older (10+-ish years) models are better sourced through Shimano, Japan or a host of other reel repair centers. For the most part, they are extremely durable and serviceable.

 
Glenn,



You aren't kidding. I openned the box to the Ardent and it has a little love note indicating that you should not mess with the reel or the warranty will be voided. That said, I am going out today to stick some fish on both reels and see how they performed. Will let you all know. :cool:
 
Yep... that would have been enough for me to close the box and return it to the store. :lol: You just can't tell a person like me not to take something apart or it will void the warranty. It would drive me nuts. :lol::lol::lol:

All the best,

Glenn
 
Alright,



I tested the reels out last night. Both seem to hand and cast fine. The quantum feel a bit better in my hand vs the ardent due to the design. I did notice when I reeled in a large spinnerbait, the ardent seems to working harder? Not sure if it me or the reel. Anyway, I am leaning towards the quantum. I am returning the ardent.





Glenn, I agree with you that there should not be a warning for a reel to lose its warranty.:angry:
 

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